catastrophic rear brake failure

[FastAndLight]

I have a 2007 S2R 1000
A few weeks ago I finally got the rear brake cylinder replaced.  I ordered the standard 11mm brembo cylinder from here: http://www.yoyodyneti.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=3007

I had a non-ducati dealer, but reputable shop with experience in Ducatis install it for me.  The brakes felt great with normal stopping power and good pedal feel. 

Yesterday I was riding with some friends in the city and something rather catastrophic happened.  I was going about 20 mph and felt something funny with the rear brake as I was coming to a stop.  We started off again and it felt ok, then stopping at the next stop sign I heard a bang from the rear wheel.  I'm not quite sure how to describe it, so hopefully the following pictures help.









Basically it looks like where the brake line attaches to the rear caliper shot off with enough force to puncture the wheel. The silver line on the inside of the wheel seems to be from where it hit while the wheel was moving.  It isn't just like the line came off, the whole metal fitting is broken off.  It is rather crazy.

So, has anyone seen something like this before?  Could this be from not properly installing the rear master cylinder? 

I'm having the bike towed to a dealer on Monday, any advice in dealing with them?  Anyone know where to pick up good 10 spoke black forged Marchesini rear wheel?  Thanks.

[silentbob]

The shop had to take the rear caliper off to bleed the system after replacing the master.  They apparently didn't tighten the caliper bolts (you can see one missing in the photo).  This caused the caliper to rotate to the point where the banjo fitting hit the wheel and snapped off.  It looks like your reputable shop owes you a lot of money.

[DarkStaR]

Poor wheel.   

[FastAndLight]

Poor wheel.   

Thanks for putting a smile on my face.  I agree.  My poor wheel.

[mitt]

The shop had to take the rear caliper off to bleed the system after replacing the master.  They apparently didn't tighten the caliper bolts (you can see one missing in the photo).  This caused the caliper to rotate to the point where the banjo fitting hit the wheel and snapped off.  It looks like your reputable shop owes you a lot of money.

+1

mitt

[billg69gmc]

it does seem that minus that bolt, once you apply brakes, the force caused the caliper to pivot and slam the crap out of the rim. Bolts not torqued?

[teddy037.2]

The shop had to take the rear caliper off to bleed the system after replacing the master.  They apparently didn't tighten the caliper bolts (you can see one missing in the photo).  This caused the caliper to rotate to the point where the banjo fitting hit the wheel and snapped off.  It looks like your reputable shop owes you a lot of money.

+2! that looks to totally be a workmanship issue.

[TAftonomos]

Someone's going to get yelled at.

Brakes are one of those things that can't be wrong.  Must work, must be 100%

When my shop was running, I personally torqued every fastener that had to deal with brakes, no exceptions.  I parked painted each one as well.  The 4 guys that worked for me thought I was nuts, but the fact that I caught 2  fasteners finger tight was enough for me to know I was doing the right thing.

Glad you are OK, now call the shop, speak to someone in charge, and calmly explain they almost killed you.

[bschur13]

wow! got to say that its a good thing that the wrecked rim is the only issue.  That could have been way worse. 

You figure when you have a shop do something it should be done right...  I had a buddy that had had engine work done and one day soon after he was driving around and noticed a knocking noise.  He couldnt place where the sound was coming so he was driving around trying to diagnose what the hell it was.  The entire time he thought it was the engine.  As he was pulling in his driveway his left front tire popped off the truck and went rolling down the street as the truck came to a grinding halt in the drive way.  Needless to say he had his tires done along with the engine work but the thought of professional not torquing lug nuts never crossed his mind.   

[bigiain]

When my shop was running, I personally torqued every fastener that had to deal with brakes, no exceptions.  I parked painted each one as well.  The 4 guys that worked for me thought I was nuts, but the fact that I caught 2  fasteners finger tight was enough for me to know I was doing the right thing.

I think you _far_ from being "nuts" with that attitude.

In the time I've had my Monster, I've done (guestimated based on milage) 20 or so tire changes. That's prewtty much the only time anyone other than me has the opportunity to screw up with my brakes.

It's happened twice. Both times by "reputable" workshops (two different ones). The first one immediately blamed me, even though I hadn't been gone from the shop for 5 minutes.

So my personal experience seems to indicate mechanics screw up brakes around 10% of the time. If it were _my_ business reputation at stake, I'd also insist on double checking every brake fastener too.

I have noticed one of the places I buy tires from always have the workshop guys crosscheck each others work on tire changes - I guys their boss worked out it's worthwhile too...

big

[corndog67]

It all depends on who is doing the work at the shop.    From what I've seen around here, a lot of the mechanics that work in the BIG 4 shops are about 18 years old.   Same with the parts guys.  Now I realize that they aren't born with the mechanic knowledge already installed on their harddrive, and that they have to learn somewhere, but what ever happened to the journeyman mechanics that used to work in the motorcycle shops?   You know, the guys that went racing on weekends, knew how to work on bikes, not just replace parts, the tuners, hot shot wrenches, there used to be a lot of them, that you could trust to do the job right, and not screw you in the process. 

I hope those guys do you right and replace your stuff.  If I were you, I'd get it home after they are done, and go through and loctite and torque everything they touched. 

[FastAndLight]

Thanks for the replies.  It does very much appear to be a workmanship issue.  The real test of this shop is now how they handle the situation.

A friend with a truck came by yesterday and we got the bike back up to the shop.  They are closed Monday, so I will hear from them on Tuesday after they see what happened.  Hopefully they take responsibility and make it right quickly.

It was only later, after a few beers, that my friends and I realized how much worse that would have been if we had been on the highway or on a back road somewhere.  We were heading back into the city to drop some stuff off before heading out for a long ride in the country, so I definitely got lucky in that respect.

As I said, on Tuesday I'll get to see if this shop is really worth anything, especially given that my girlfriend was going to take her Monster in this week for its 6k and a bunch of other work.

[ducpainter]

It all depends on who is doing the work at the shop.    From what I've seen around here, a lot of the mechanics that work in the BIG 4 shops are about 18 years old.   Same with the parts guys.  Now I realize that they aren't born with the mechanic knowledge already installed on their harddrive, and that they have to learn somewhere, but what ever happened to the journeyman mechanics that used to work in the motorcycle shops?   You know, the guys that went racing on weekends, knew how to work on bikes, not just replace parts, the tuners, hot shot wrenches, there used to be a lot of them, that you could trust to do the job right, and not screw you in the process. 

I hope those guys do you right and replace your stuff.  If I were you, I'd get it home after they are done, and go through and loctite and torque everything they touched. 

The journeymen grow up and start families.

They get tired of making a non living wage which is too common in the moto industry.

And we get the 18 year olds working on our bikes at the dealer.

[zooom]

I know the owner of the shop in question here that did the work and I know he'll make it right. Sorry you had to go through this in the meantime though.

The problem in general here is the fact that shop owners/managers would never get anything done if they had to double check every bike after it was worked on by any and all of it's techs/wrenches...hell, to a small degree, it would be an insult to the tech/wrench in a measure of inability to trust them and their workmanship and slap them in the face by doing so. So sometimes they have to trust that they are doing the right thing at their workbench. In the meantime, this tech will end up probably paying for it all in the end, even though the shop will take care of the intial expendature in making sure the bike is repaired properly and returned to the customer in the best possible circumstance.

[rgramjet]

The journeymen grow up and start families.

They get tired of making a non living wage which is too common in the moto industry.

And we get the 18 year olds working on our bikes at the dealer.

Who pays the owners "living wage" during the slow Winter days when he's struggling to keep the guys on board?   

Ive seen very competent 18 year old bike techs that can rebuild a brake plus.  Unfortunately there are too many entitled types that feel they deserve 15-20 per hour without making their bones....  A "non living wage" drives one to learn, to hustle and be reliable, hence making themselves more marketable.