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Title: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: BretMorris on August 30, 2008, 11:44:05 PM Hi there,
I have posted this under the Tech section of the site as well but thought I might put it in the Oz Monster section just incase some of you dont venture outside the Oz section. I noticed the other day that the oil level window on my 2007 S4R monster had what looked like some white creamy substance on the inside of the window. I am not sure what it could be but think I will take it into the local Ducati dealer to have them look at it. Bike is running like a dream and has only done 2600Kms. I have posted a couple of photos of the oil level window just incase any member of this site might now what I am dealing with??? (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/bretmorris/P8310077.jpg) (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/bretmorris/P8310076.jpg) The bike is on the side stand with the engine running hence no oil level showing. Any ideas. Bret Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: MonsterDorf on August 30, 2008, 11:49:44 PM Mate, that's what oil looks like when it's mixed with water!
Head gausket would be my guess. Sorry :( Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: DUCMONROB on August 30, 2008, 11:53:51 PM If your bike is air cooled that water in the oil is due to alot of short trips where your oil does not build up enough heat to burn off the moisture.
Don`t worry about it, just take the bike for a good thrash for an hour or two. The moisture will eventually go. Rob Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Heffay on August 30, 2008, 11:56:35 PM interesting that the bike is wet on the outside too. [roll]
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: DUCMONROB on August 31, 2008, 12:00:50 AM interesting that the bike is wet on the outside too. [roll] Washing your bike HOT causes this problem too! Thanks Heffay! Rob Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: BretMorris on August 31, 2008, 12:06:12 AM I had washed the bike but it was stone cold when I did it. I rode it yesterday. The white is on the window and doesnt appear to be in the oil. I have attached another photo taken with the bike on the paddock stand and I think you can make out the oil level.
I did ride the bike for about 1.5hrs yesterday and it didnt go! The engine is water cooled S4R..... the first reply suggested head gasket if that was the case would I notice any drop in performance or other tell tale signs. It still goes as good as ever, runs pretty cool. (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/bretmorris/P8310079.jpg) Do you think I should take it into the Ducati Dealer tomorrow? Bret Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: dragonworld. on August 31, 2008, 12:11:18 AM +1 to DUCMONROB [thumbsup]
Short rides without giving the bike enough time to reach proper operating temp will cause the creamy oil window syndrome. ;) A couple of long rides making sure that temp is at or near normal operating temp should fix it. [thumbsup] It could ONLY be a head gasket if the bike is watercooled. ;D Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: dragonworld. on August 31, 2008, 12:15:40 AM I had washed the bike but it was stone cold when I did it. I rode it yesterday. The white is on the window and doesnt appear to be in the oil. I have attached another photo taken with the bike on the paddock stand and I think you can make out the oil level. I did ride the bike for about 1.5hrs yesterday and it didnt go! The engine is water cooled S4R..... the first reply suggested head gasket if that was the case would I notice any drop in performance or other tell tale signs. It still goes as good as ever, runs pretty cool. (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/bretmorris/P8310079.jpg) Do you think I should take it into the Ducati Dealer tomorrow? Keep an eye on the coolant level, if it doesnt lose any coolant its more than likely just condensation!! ;D If its losing coolant get thee to a dealer. Head gasket isnt a big job!! Have your head studs been checked for correct torque(tightness)?? ??? Bret Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: loony888 on August 31, 2008, 12:33:55 AM mate, don't worry about it, it's very common for condensation to build when the bike isn't ridden very far/often. you really need to ensure you warm the bike fully before riding off first thing, and i mean 70 deg water temp, then take it for a good fang, preferably on the open road for at least an hour, you should find it's all clear when you return.
if you're worried about it using water from the cooling system, check the overflow bottle that sits between the cylinders, cold it should be between the hi and low mark, but again, i seriously doubt that's the issue. paul. Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: MonsterDorf on August 31, 2008, 01:24:28 AM Just for the record a S4R is water cooled.
Like Paul (looney888) says check you coolant and if you have foam in their as well - that's bad. Good Luck. Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Betty on August 31, 2008, 02:56:49 AM I've heard the condensation thing on here a few times. The only time I have seen it on my bike was after a short (10 minute ride) to the mechanic - and he confirmed that's what it is and is quite common for short cycles (cold, warming, cooling).
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: stopintime on August 31, 2008, 03:05:55 AM Normal [thumbsup] Longer rides helps. I also opened the oil filler cap after a few rides, to let the moisture out - maybe it helped.
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: ducsport on August 31, 2008, 03:09:18 AM Yep, +1 on the short trip diagnosis. Rode my bike on the short trip to my local office a few times and the window looked like yours. Then rode it to my Sydney office from Wollongong, a 220km round trip and hey presto - clear as a window [thumbsup]...ducsport
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: MonsterDorf on August 31, 2008, 04:39:32 AM Interesting phenomena, if it's from short rides and not from the coolant, then I'd presume it would also effect air cooled Duc's.
But my bike has never had it and neither has my mates Elephant - so anyone with a 2V had the problem? Also I've owned a range of bikes over the last 30 years, air, oil and water cooled, and can't recall it ever happening ? What kind of oil are you using? Did some looking on the web and found these: http://list.ducati.net/pipermail/ducati/2008-March/020821.html, and http://www.zxforums.com/forums/gtr-1400-forum/12349-engine-oil-foam.html So maybe it isn't so uncommon after all? ??? Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: brad black on August 31, 2008, 05:37:33 AM very, very common. and if the oil is not milky, it's fine.
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Spider on August 31, 2008, 05:47:46 AM But my bike has never had it and neither has my mates Elephant - so anyone with a 2V had the problem? there are a few threads on TOB and the new improved site - all relate to the 4v only - has to be water cooled before you'll get the condensation. Damn the refrigerators!!! ;D I take it we're all up and typing waiting for the MotoGP? :D Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: stopintime on August 31, 2008, 08:33:50 AM My problem with this was in connection with cold, humid weather and short trips. (2v air cooled)
If it came from the coolant in the system I think it would be a sign of bad things going to happen? Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: CairnsDuc on August 31, 2008, 12:40:36 PM I've had a small amount of condensation on my Air cooled S2R 800 on a very cold wet morning after a short run to work. not as bad as that pictured.
but still easy to spot the condensation in the window, a good long ride on the way home and all was well again. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have vague memories of a fault on some monsters of a faulty window, they would turn white for no apparent reason, it looked very similar to condensation. The glass had to be replaced. Is that true? Or my memory cells not working correctly again? Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: loony888 on August 31, 2008, 02:24:19 PM cold? in cairns? mate, are you sure? ;D
and yes, it will happen with air cooled motors as well. :-\ paul. [thumbsup] Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: tricolore on August 31, 2008, 02:40:35 PM I have had it in the Duc and also noticed it on my dirt bike, I decent ride fixes it every time. It can not be the coolant mixed with the oil (head gasket) as you can definately see the clean oil behind it.
Keep an eye on it but I would not be too concerned. Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Betty on August 31, 2008, 02:42:25 PM The small amount I saw on mine (S2R 800) as described above was no where near as much as you can see Bret .... and I have only noticed it the once.
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: BretMorris on August 31, 2008, 03:26:32 PM I must admit I do a lot of shortish runs - 30 minutes maximum and the bike hasnt been getting very warm. I have been too kind to my neighbours and havent been sitting in my driveway at 7 am on Saturday and Sunday mornings waiting for the Monster to warm up too much. As soon as the low temp indicator goes I take off. I reckon I am going to have to sit there a lot longer and make sure it gets really warm. Cant really remember it getting much over 75degrees the last few rides. It has been bloody cold in Adelaide recently.
So maybe I need to run it a lot longer and get it a lot warmer. A couple of people have suggested I take the oil filler cap off once it is warm, sounds like another good idea. Thanks. Bret Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Spider on August 31, 2008, 03:37:54 PM I stand corrected oh 2 valve sufferers!
I've done some runs in some really cold temperatures (low single digits) and never had a problem. Paul, I remember when I lived on the gold coast we used to consider anything less than 15 degrees to be 'freezing', anything less than 10 and you told your family members you loved them before heading outside or to bed - because we thought we might perish! :) Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: BretMorris on August 31, 2008, 03:56:07 PM I am hoping it is a combination of cool moist ambient temperature, short runs and the rider not warming the bike up and not using enough throttle. I do ride it a little easy!!! Thought I was going ok but when the grandma passed me on the inside of a turn on a scooter I knew something about my riding was wrong.....
Bret Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: DosVerde on August 31, 2008, 03:59:13 PM Hey Brett, it looks exactly like the oil window of my S4Rt. I have only been commuting on it for the last month or so, and have'nt had a chance to take it for a good fang lately. My bike is running fine as well, and the coolant level hasn't moved since I got it, so I'm not too worried. I just got to ride it harder [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Spider on August 31, 2008, 04:33:40 PM Hey Brett, it looks exactly like the oil window of my S4Rt. I have only been commuting on it for the last month or so, and have'nt had a chance to take it for a good fang lately. My bike is running fine as well, and the coolant level hasn't moved since I got it, so I'm not too worried. I just got to ride it harder [thumbsup] I'm here for you mate! [thumbsup] where re we going? WHEN are we going? Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: loony888 on August 31, 2008, 08:58:10 PM I must admit I do a lot of shortish runs - 30 minutes maximum and the bike hasnt been getting very warm. I have been too kind to my neighbours and havent been sitting in my driveway at 7 am on Saturday and Sunday mornings waiting for the Monster to warm up too much. As soon as the low temp indicator goes I take off. I reckon I am going to have to sit there a lot longer and make sure it gets really warm. Cant really remember it getting much over 75degrees the last few rides. It has been bloody cold in Adelaide recently. So maybe I need to run it a lot longer and get it a lot warmer. A couple of people have suggested I take the oil filler cap off once it is warm, sounds like another good idea. Thanks. Bret if you do take the filler cap off when you arrive to let moisture escape, make sure you either put the cap somewhere really obvious or take some tape and tape over your ignition as a reminder. oil will escape from the filler hole easily and it will get on the tyre!!! paul. Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: BretMorris on August 31, 2008, 11:28:35 PM Well sort of on topic..... the filler cap is made of plastic and seems quite flimsy.... and it is on bloody tight I might add... Unless I am trying to unscrew it in the wrong direction.. MMM.. Italians dont screw things the wrong way do they!! LOL..
The real question re: the filler cap is can you buy the anodised billet ones in Australia? I would like a red anodised one if I can locate in Australia at the right price or am I best to get one off ebay via the US? Thanks Bret Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: loony888 on September 01, 2008, 12:44:27 AM vee two in perth make them, but e-bay will probably work out the cheapest.
here you go, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DUCATI-748-916-996-998-SS-MONSTER-OIL-FILLER-BILLET-CAP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122QQcategoryZ35618QQihZ001QQitemZ110284583549QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD2V paul. Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Cerberus53 on September 01, 2008, 02:01:19 AM I'm no expert but I can confirm that my air-cooled 2v (695) has shown the same symptoms on two occasions - both on very cold Canberra mornings, combined with short trips and quick warm ups. Went away after a decent long ride and doesn't seem to have had any enduring effects.
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Spider on September 01, 2008, 02:42:26 AM this one's cheaper, I could get one for you - but it will be a month -
Monsterparts billet oil cap (http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/CI-oilplug/Accessories/CI-oilplug.html) Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: ducmeister on September 01, 2008, 03:12:34 AM Had this on my 2V 900. No problem. Oil seems fine.
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: auntymal on September 01, 2008, 02:29:40 PM [thumbsup] Air has water in it. Tanks and crankcases breathe air, they get hot, they get cold. Condensation. Fix the "problem", by taking the bike for a good ride, use the gearbox and give it a rev. Any water will disappear. Burnt to vapour by the hot oil, then, shout it an oil and filter change, just in case you need to feel confident about it. Crankcase dilution of a type. Low k bikes rarely ridden often show this effect. At various times any sight glass equipped machine may show this oil/water vapour. Yes, if you blow a headgasket in a water cooled one, you'll "milk" the oil, but it won't be a happy chappy and you'll know there's something really wrong etc. All is well. Aunty Mal
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: BretMorris on September 05, 2008, 04:20:15 PM Well have taken the Monster out for a couple of rides and made sure I warmed it up well and truly before going. I am sure the neighbours enjoyed the S4R - Termignoni sound at 6.45 am this morning. The "white stuff" has almost gone so with another longish ride this afternoon and tomorrow am I am sure it will be all gone. Must get myself a new oil filler cap as the plastic one is a bit cheap!!!
Thanks for all your help and advice. Bret Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: brad black on September 05, 2008, 07:54:25 PM i rode to work almost every day back before 'the crash', and during the winter of '98 i think it was (maybe '99) i was riding my sport 1100i guzzi. i changed the oil around june or so and about 1,500km later it was white - completely white like it was water cooled and had coolant getting into the oil, but not frothy. it just wasn't getting hot enough on the 12km run to work (half on freeway) and i remember we had lots of fog that was so thick i'd be wet when i got to work. plus they have a breather system that causes white froth inside the rocker covers under the same and even milder conditions.
if it's a 4v motor and has a leak from the back of the water pump it'll have milkshake oil. we've had a few of them over the years - '99 or '00 996 mainly from memory. head gaskets leaking coolant into the oil i've never seen. Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: BretMorris on September 06, 2008, 12:07:59 AM Back from a long ride and the oil window is as clear as clear.....giddy up.
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Betty on September 06, 2008, 01:54:46 AM Good stuff, gotta love a simple (& cheap) fix.
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: loony888 on September 06, 2008, 04:27:54 AM Good stuff, gotta love a simple (& cheap) fix. dunno how cheap with the price of petrol these days!!! ;D paul. [thumbsup] Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: Betty on September 06, 2008, 03:17:11 PM Yeah but the most fun you will have fixing a problem ;D
Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: DukeZ on September 16, 2008, 04:46:28 AM My oil window was the same - cloudy. Changed the oil and still cloudy. A few long rides and it got better but still a bit cloudy.
I put a workshop light up close to get the site glass nice and warm for 1/2 hour and now its all good. My Guzzi would do the same thing in winter. Big twins suck in alot of air through the crankcase ventilation and if it damp it shows up milky/cloudy in the oil. Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: dragonworld. on September 16, 2008, 03:32:58 PM Reading up on the K&N crankcase filter for the Duc and amomgst other things it said that the original breather can cause the creamy sight glass situation?? ???
Interesting!! concept :-\ I guess it could be sucking cold moist air through the Airbox ?? :-\ Title: Re: Oil Level Window mystery - Any one help? Post by: dragonworld. on September 18, 2008, 02:42:46 AM Here is a Fleabay ad for a K&N crankcase vent kit with the pros of the setup. ???
Any opinions on the thing Brad [thumbsup]?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300258322812 |