Hey guys so i have a 2001 monster 900SIe. Ok here's the story, so the other day i was riding home and about a mile after i got a tank of gas my bike just suddenly died. I'm not sure what happened or why it died. and then came the embarrassing push back to the house. But i have done a little diagnosing of my own and have narrowed it down a little bit. So i have spark across both plugs, i'm not crimping a fuel line, the bike starts and runs fine on starting fluid, so thats not a long term solution. I was thinking it was the kick stand sensor but i unplugged it and by passed it with a little copper wire jammed into both terminals. For sure it is a fuel issue. And of course its the sie so its fuel injected. I took off the bottom two gas lines from the tank and gas just came gussing out, like it should... And at first when i had this issue and i kept trying to restart it the fuel pump would kick on and i could hear it prime but now i can't. So either it is already primed and doesn't need to prime again or its not working. But any ideas would help. Thanks for looking.
If the bike cranks it is not a problem with the starter circuit. If it starts on starter fluid ignition is good, as is timing and compression. That leaves fuel. Since this happened shortly after getting fuel and the pump is working I would suspect the fuel itself. Drain the tank into a clear container. Allow the fuel to settle and inspect. Since the tank is empty this is a good time to change the filter and, while you are in there inspect for fuel hoses that may have cracked or fallen off.
Ya i guess it could be bad gas, but that seams highly unlikely. I'll drain the tank tomorrow. I wondering though if its the fuel pump or the ecu. My buddy has a 04 supersport 1000 and he had to replace his ecu last year, and come to find out it was a factory recall. Do you know of any such recall for the 900sie.
Also why doesn't the fuel pump prime it self anymore? It did the first day after this happen but it doesn't anymore no madder how many times i turn the engine over. So either the injectors aren't working or the pump is bad
Wait, so when you turn the key on you don't hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds?
That's the problem.
Either you aren't getting electricity to the pump or the pump's dicked.
edit:
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on August 31, 2008, 11:21:03 PM
Also why doesn't the fuel pump prime it self anymore? It did the first day after this happen but it doesn't anymore no madder how many times i turn the engine over.
Okay, I just caught this part...
If the pump was still audible when you couldn't get it to start, and now you can't hear it at all, my guess is that the pump was going bad and even though still running, it wasn't producing enough pressure to work effectively.
...and now it's not working at all. That's what I'd put my money on.
ok ya, that makes a lot of sense. thanks for the reply
ok today i pulled out my pump and checked it. It is working fine. so hmmm not sure what it is then. i put a new filter in to so any more ideas
Swap out the gas yet?
To properly test the pump you will need to hook up a pressure gauge in line, probably best left to someone with the proper tools, though if the pump is making enough pressure to return fuel to the tank that should be sufficient for starting the bike.
Quote from: howie on September 01, 2008, 03:32:05 PM
To properly test the pump you will need to hook up a pressure gauge in line, probably best left to someone with the proper tools, though if the pump is making enough pressure to return fuel to the tank that should be sufficient for starting the bike.
How do we know it's returning fuel to the tank?
Quote from: Rameses on September 01, 2008, 04:42:52 PM
How do we know it's returning fuel to the tank?
Oh (smacking head). The obvious answer would be to look in the tank while the engine is cranking or running, but I'm not sure you can really see since the return is in the same area as the feed so the will already be motion. Maybe if you have a known good specimen to compare with, dunno. The less obvious is disconnect the return hose from the regulator. You will need to clamp off the hose first or quickly plug it to keep the contents of the fuel tank from emptying out. Put a hose on the regulator and grab a large vessel to catch the fuel. Turn the key on. Do be careful since you are dealing with a flammable.
Better is to get a high pressure gauge you can tee into the fuel line before the regulator. Normal pressure is around 3 Bar. A gauge of this type is not cheap and usually a shop tool.
Quote from: howie on September 01, 2008, 09:37:47 PM
Do be careful since you are dealing with a flammable.
Heed this warning.
How bizarre.... I had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM happen to me on Sunday! I have the exact same symptoms and have done the same troubleshooting (minus starting fluid...mine will begin to start then immediately die). The only difference is mine is an '02 900ie. My unprofessional guess (not taking into account the FI and ECU) is a bad fuel pump. Please update this thread if you find the issue, and I will do the same!
Makes you wonder if there is some sort of timed failure programmed into the ECU!
I just got a suggestion from a Ducati tech which is an easy diagnosis and an easy/cheap fix. Check the fuel line in the tank (that goes from the pump to the fuel line output out of the tank) for a split. To diagnose, pull the fuel filler cap and turn the bike on to look for fuel spray/movement.
I figured it was the fuel pump, but this would be way mo' better. I may be able to check mine tonight, if so I'll post the results! Keeping my fingers crossed....
sweety dude thanks, ya keep me posted. I called the ducati tech today and he said 275 for a new pump. But hey they have one in stock!!!! haha
I mentioned a cracked hose 12 posts up.
Quote from: howie on September 02, 2008, 09:57:04 PM
I mentioned a cracked hose 12 posts up.
What does a crack ho have to do with anything. :P
Quote from: Jobu on September 03, 2008, 09:32:10 AM
What does a crack ho have to do with anything. :P
Well, there
was that post from back in the day on TOB...
...where the crackhead kept breaking off somebody's horizontal cylinder spark plug to use the ceramic as a pipe.
SO i did a little more investigating tonight and found that there is power going into the fuel level sensor but not out of it to the fuel pump. so i am pretty sure there is a short in the wire. I noticed if i jiggled it and stuck the check light in real deep it would read it was getting power but not unless i did that. SO that is where i will start tomorrow and order the part.
So today i bought a used tank with everything in it. everything works great. 180 bucks off ebay. They seller is shipping it today so, after installing it i will update you on the situation. Hopefully it will be a solution.
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on September 04, 2008, 02:23:04 PM
So today i bought a used tank with everything in it. everything works great. 180 bucks off ebay. They seller is shipping it today so, after installing it i will update you on the situation. Hopefully it will be a solution.
Wow.
Good deal.
Is the tank in decent shape?
well it has a dent in it, but so does my original one, i figure i can fix the one I'm not using and then swap all the components in the nice one when its done.
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on September 04, 2008, 08:20:10 PM
well it has a dent in it, but so does my original one, i figure i can fix the one I'm not using and then swap all the components in the nice one when its done.
That's cool. You essentially got a really good deal on the pump, sensor, and wiring,
and a free tank.
Update: It was a split hose in the tank. All is good now! [thumbsup]
ok so heres the update. My bike still won't start. New fuel pump and sensor. I have the lines hooked up correctly. So i'm not sure. I can now hear the furl pump prime when i turn the key on. And it dumps fuel out the line so either it is the fuel injectors arn't firing or the kick stand kill switch, or the ecu.
Remember, it made a click sound, pretty loud before it died. And i was riding it when it did this. Almost sounded like a back fire in the head or a switch closing.
Help this really sucks
Have you checked for spark?
ya i have spark. bike runs great on starting fluid
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on September 15, 2008, 06:17:15 PM
ya i have spark. bike runs great on starting fluid
I went back and read your OP again.
The fact that it quit right after getting gas...
might be the key.
I'd pull the injectors and see if what is coming out is fuel...and not water.
ok, i guess pulling the injectors is the next step, but i drained the tank during this whole process, and added brand new fuel today. still nothing. could it be the ECU?
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on September 15, 2008, 06:31:16 PM
ok, i guess pulling the injectors is the next step, but i drained the tank during this whole process, and added brand new fuel today. still nothing. could it be the ECU?
could be...
or the line from the tank to the injectors could be full of water/lousy fuel.
Pulling the injectors will tell you if they're working.
If they spray when you turn the key to start chances are the ecu is good and it's a fuel quality issue.
Careful...
that's high pressure fuel.
ok so i pulled my air box and put my fingers in the throttle body and could feel the injectors. Turned the key on and i could hear the pump prime but i got nothing from the injectors. O PS if you read my post on the hiccup topic i had a few issues with the bike backfiring up into the air box like it sounds like other people have to, and holy cow you can definitely see which throttle body, it is way black on the inside. where the other one is super clean.
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on September 15, 2008, 07:38:28 PM
ok so i pulled my air box and put my fingers in the throttle body and could feel the injectors. Turned the key on and i could hear the pump prime but i got nothing from the injectors. O PS if you read my post on the hiccup topic i had a few issues with the bike backfiring up into the air box like it sounds like other people have to, and holy cow you can definitely see which throttle body, it is way black on the inside. where the other one is super clean.
The injectors won't spray until you hit the starter button.
Just turning the key to "on" isn't enough.
o sorry, i ment i had the key on and i was turning the bike over. I got nothing out of them. I checked both injectors too. It almost felt like they were trying to fire but nothing was coming out.
One more question, my tank wasn't labeled on which fuel line was which. but i am assuming when i pulled off the lines the one that all the gas was coming out of was the main line and the one nothing was coming out of was the return right?
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on September 15, 2008, 07:58:53 PM
o sorry, i ment i had the key on and i was turning the bike over. I got nothing out of them. I checked both injectors too. It almost felt like they were trying to fire but nothing was coming out.
One more question, my tank wasn't labeled on which fuel line was which. but i am assuming when i pulled off the lines the one that all the gas was coming out of was the main line and the one nothing was coming out of was the return right?
Nope, that's backwards.
Gas only comes out of the delivery nipple when the in-tank pump is running.
The return nipple is nothing but a nipple, so gas freely runs out of it when nothing's connected to it.
well damn, i'll have to redo that one then in the morning and try again. now i just feel stupid [bang]
ok hahaha wait till you here this one. So turns out you were right, reversed the fuel lines and Bam runs great. But on when it is leaned over on the kick stand. As soon as i stand the bike straight up and begin to take off it chokes out and dies on my. I called Ducati of Seattle, real nice guys they said they don't have tip over sensors on these things so where do i go from here. He said it was one of the weirdest things he has ever heard of.
The thing is this whole problem began when i came down off a wheelie. so i thought maybe i just knocked my tip over sensor off but if they don't have one i guess that would be a little hard to do.
Quote from: Yamaharacerx on September 16, 2008, 01:40:24 PM
ok hahaha wait till you here this one. So turns out you were right, reversed the fuel lines and Bam runs great. But on when it is leaned over on the kick stand. As soon as i stand the bike straight up and begin to take off it chokes out and dies on my. I called Ducati of Seattle, real nice guys they said they don't have tip over sensors on these things so where do i go from here. He said it was one of the weirdest things he has ever heard of.
The thing is this whole problem began when i came down off a wheelie. so i thought maybe i just knocked my tip over sensor off but if they don't have one i guess that would be a little hard to do.
im having the same kind of wierd problems.trouble started only on freeways doin 70 or so and the bike just dies,i pull over and it cranks right up.third time i had to get it towed and sometimes it starts sometimes it doesnt