Ducati Monster Forum

Local Clubs => SoCO DOG => Topic started by: Smitch on September 04, 2008, 02:14:10 PM



Title: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Smitch on September 04, 2008, 02:14:10 PM
Just to clarify, there is a ride planned for this Saturday leaving from Montagues at 9am.  Route TBD, this is a democracy folks!  I'll be working of course, but those of you who get Saturday off should do a few miles for me.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: monsterbrew on September 04, 2008, 02:20:07 PM
Sure now that my wife comes home for the weekend you all want to ride on a Sat!!!!

brew


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: KRJ on September 04, 2008, 03:53:20 PM
OOPS!!  forgot about the alternating days thing, saturday at monte's it is.  sunday ride still open.   bummer to have to ride both day's...just have to suffer through it. much more fun than splitting fire wood!


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Ducati900sp on September 06, 2008, 04:58:02 AM
Sorry fellas, not make it this morning! I got suckered in to work!


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Gringo 999 on September 06, 2008, 10:02:25 AM
Sorry fellas, not make it this morning! I got suckered in to work!

Did anyone go?  Such a beautiful day!


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Smitch on September 06, 2008, 10:12:23 AM
Dave and Holland, Pete and Damin showed up.  They swung by the shop, and then despersed.  Dave said he'll be back at Montague's tomorrow at 9am for a Bishop's Castle run if anybody wants to join him.  Pete said he might go too.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Gringo 999 on September 06, 2008, 07:49:09 PM
Dave and Holland, Pete and Damin showed up.  They swung by the shop, and then despersed.  Dave said he'll be back at Montague's tomorrow at 9am for a Bishop's Castle run if anybody wants to join him.  Pete said he might go too.

Oooh, that's enticing!   Coffee and a ride!   [coffee] [moto]  Thanks for passing along!


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: KRJ on September 08, 2008, 06:32:57 AM
sorry I missed you guys, had the emergency repair at work. did get out after noon for a ride though.  sunday plans also hosed,all the time playing this summer catching up to me!!!  next weekend will try again.  summer slipping by fast.   good meeting you smitch, the club should try to have a meeting of all members before the seasons over, a group event to meet everyone,with plenty lead notice to help arrange shcedules for a positive turnout!!!   something to think about....


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: duckrider on September 08, 2008, 07:56:41 AM

   WOW !!!  47 people opened this thread and new the times and 4 show up.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 08:15:26 AM
Hey Duckrider, enough. I didn't see you at Ouray, I haven't seen you at the rides I've been on either. Get off your horse and quit acting high and mighty. FYI, I ride just about everyday. Sunday I took a nice ride up to Deckers and met up with one of the Denver guys for some fishing. Sometimes life has other plans, until I see you at every event I show up at you may step off that tall steed good sir. We also are trying to get a Tuesday night thing going and I haven't seen you at that either hmmmmm?


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: duckrider on September 08, 2008, 08:43:43 AM



   Buy the way I was In Ouray !!!  And  because you never show up to rides we haven't  meet . As far as Tuesdays that sounds like drinking not riding.
  And it is obvious you missed the point of what I wrote.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 08, 2008, 08:51:24 AM
Hey Duckrider, enough. I didn't see you at Ouray, I haven't seen you at the rides I've been on either. Get off your horse and quit acting high and mighty. FYI, I ride just about everyday. Sunday I took a nice ride up to Deckers and met up with one of the Denver guys for some fishing. Sometimes life has other plans, until I see you at every event I show up at you may step off that tall steed good sir. We also are trying to get a Tuesday night thing going and I haven't seen you at that either hmmmmm?

Can't we all just get along!!!!!   [laugh]
(http://myapologies.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/king_rodney.jpg)


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: KRJ on September 08, 2008, 08:56:23 AM
we all have busy lives, and no one person is to blame, how many members are there in the SoCoDOGs ?? how many don't post or speak up ??  maybe more communication could help !  the few of us that comment here can't be all that ride.maybe a club meeting of all members is needed...



Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: duckrider on September 08, 2008, 09:14:36 AM

 Thank you KRJ it is about the communication and it is no ones fault because its a club .ITs way to meet other riders . It all so for fun.
 But whats the point of a club if no one shows up.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 09:21:52 AM


   Buy the way I was In Ouray !!!  And  because you never show up to rides we haven't  meet . As far as Tuesdays that sounds like drinking not riding.
  And it is obvious you missed the point of what I wrote.
I was in Ouray, so who are you if you were there we should have met. I don't drink, it's a chance for us to get together and build a kinship that will result in more people showing up for rides. I have shown up for rides, you haven't been at those rides is MY point. We can't all make all the rides. That is my point, "hey pot.... this is kettle.... yeah your black"
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/WannaDucBad/motorcycles/rockthemake the beast with two backson.jpg)
^^^ me in Ouray.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 08, 2008, 09:24:59 AM
I cant see the picture! Make it public!!    [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bacon] [bacon] [bacon] [bacon] [cheeky] [cheeky] [cheeky]


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 09:43:20 AM
I cant see the picture! Make it public!!    [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bacon] [bacon] [bacon] [bacon] [cheeky] [cheeky] [cheeky]
?? Seriously? Can you really not see it? I don't know what would cause that? Look Duckrider I'd love to see more people make more rides too, I just disagree with the tone you're taking, and If I don't know you you haven't been on all the rides so your tone is a little hypocritical.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 08, 2008, 10:03:32 AM
?? Seriously? Can you really not see it? I don't know what would cause that? Look Duckrider I'd love to see more people make more rides too, I just disagree with the tone you're taking, and If I don't know you you haven't been on all the rides so your tone is a little hypocritical.

Yes, the images says it cannot be shown...it takes you to the photobucket login for wannaducbad...


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 10:13:17 AM
Yes, the images says it cannot be shown...it takes you to the photobucket login for wannaducbad...
Do my pics always do this? Lets try again.....
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/WannaDucBad/motorcycles/rockthemake the beast with two backson.jpg)
I see it do you see it now?


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 08, 2008, 11:48:09 AM
Do my pics always do this? Lets try again.....
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/WannaDucBad/motorcycles/rockthemake the beast with two backson.jpg)
I see it do you see it now?

nope...it says this image has been moved or deleted.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 08, 2008, 12:01:12 PM
Is it working for cooleye now?  I can see the pix so it's not the way you posted, I don't think. 

   I don't drink either but I make it to DucNight down here in Albuquerque  as often as possible.  I used to be obsessed and worked my entire schedule around it.  Now a year later, I am less OCD about Tuesday nights and rides in general.  I can't make every ride that someone gets a notion to post up.  For me the best part of DucNight is riding to it.  I love seeing the duc pond expand as other riders roll in.  The ones who actually ride to it don't drink and the ones who do usually come in a cage.   ;D  The NMMR gets together for BBQ's, MotoGP, and go-carting, as well.  To be honest, I spend more time with the gang than my own family so it's quite alright to miss an event now and then.   [moto]   I dare someone to call me out on that!   We almost get tired of each other after awhile.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 12:12:40 PM
nope...it says this image has been moved or deleted.
Are you at work? Maybe a browser is blocking it.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 08, 2008, 12:14:01 PM
Is it working for cooleye now?  I can see the pix so it's not the way you posted, I don't think. 


Still cant see it. I use firefox, but i switched to IE and I still cannot see it. Maybe bonfy you are logged into photobucket, and that is why you all see them? Anyone else see this photo WITHOUT being logged into photobucket??


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 08, 2008, 12:20:42 PM


hmmmmmm....i just made a fake profile in Photobucket, then logged in, then did a search for Wannaducbad, and it asked me if i want to see his profile and i said yes, then it asks me for a password to see his photos....dont know the passoword, so I cant see the photos??  Tried it in both IE and firefox, and now trying in Opera.



Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 12:34:37 PM
I have the profile set to private, just cause it feels weird to me the thought of strangers walking through my stuff. But it's always been set that way and I've never had a problem before now..... here's another pic from the same album....
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/WannaDucBad/motorcycles/megettinit.jpg)
check this link, at the top of the page is another pic I posted the same way. Does it work?
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1590.45


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 08, 2008, 12:37:19 PM
Ok...i saw both pics now. The one on this page and the one of the child on the link you provided!

I wonder if all this banter is a Thread HiJack!????? [coffee] [coffee] [laugh] [laugh]

I forgot what the topic was anyway???!! LOL


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 08, 2008, 12:46:10 PM
Well, since the 6th has come and gone, it's become old news and a catch-all.   [roll]  Hopefully, the thread-jacker sheriff won't catch us philandering around in here.   ;)

I don't have to be logged into photobucket to see pix ever.  But sometimes photobucket just acts up, then simmers down.  Also, if logged in as a guest or just cruising without going through my proper login I can't see all photos.  Glad it's fixed now. 


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: duckrider on September 08, 2008, 01:04:28 PM
 I was in Ouray Friday night and left Saturday due to weather. I did not stay at the same hotel as the rest of the New Mexico guys. I talked to a couple of the guys and went by Saturday to see what was up . I rode my st4s on that trip . I was also on the ride when Cory had his wreck.

I guess what you call my " High Horse " is my high disappointment in showing up for rides and no one is there. Like you said its about building camaraderie ,friendships and a club. My comments are not meant to insult but voice an opinion and observation .


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 01:31:23 PM
Hey I'd like to build a tight group too.  [thumbsup] I just don't like feeling like I'm being scolded by an angry parent. Typically I stay out of stuff like that, which is why I didn't comment on your post originally. I try to make sure my contributions here are of a positive manner. As I think we all should. Come down to Phantom Canyon tommorow, I don't drink either but we can shoot some pool, and talk about our Ducs.  [beer] After all a love of Ducs is the common thread in all of us regardless of age, race, sex, religion, or political affilliation. If we want a strong group we must nurture those ties, and sometimes that means spending a little time in someone elses playground. We don't always get to play the game we want to, but if we want others to play ours we must also indulge them. MonsterBrew will probably be there, and I'll definitely swing by tommorow. Say 6:30ish?


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: ducducgooseme on September 08, 2008, 01:32:19 PM
 We almost get tired of each other after awhile.


SURELY you aren't speaking of little ole me!!    [coffee]


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: duckrider on September 08, 2008, 01:56:54 PM
 I would love to come by but I have kids on Mon. Tues nights and I would bring the young one but he is sick and needs TLC . I would love to pick Bonfy 's brain and see how they created such a tight club . I have a rule with my boys . If your driving or riding and pass a go cart track you have to stop and race. I think its great that they race. How fun a bunch of Duck riding speed loving people on a go cart track.  That's why I would like to see strength in the club.



Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: KRJ on September 08, 2008, 01:58:11 PM
well said,WDB, we all can't be at every ride, and if we all make the best effort we can , and have fun, then we are a success!   'nuff sed.  hope to see you at phantom tomorrow eve.   and yes I do enjoy my beer, responsibly


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 08, 2008, 02:57:56 PM
Totally understand the kids thing. I too have to work around a kiddie schedule. I do look forward to meeting you though.  ;) KRJ see ya tomorrow night.  [thumbsup] I was talking with her(Bonfy) earlier today about that actually, it sounds like it just happened a person at a time. Maybe we are just expecting to much to soon.  :P


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 08, 2008, 04:49:55 PM

SURELY you aren't speaking of little ole me!!    [coffee]

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Thanks DDGM, you just made me sputter triscuits and muenster all over the screen.  How could the Smelly Pirate Hooker ever get tired of the Invisible Man?     

 [cheeky]


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 08, 2008, 05:40:01 PM
I would love to come by but I have kids on Mon. Tues nights and I would bring the young one but he is sick and needs TLC . I would love to pick Bonfy 's brain and see how they created such a tight club . I have a rule with my boys . If your driving or riding and pass a go cart track you have to stop and race. I think its great that they race. How fun a bunch of Duck riding speed loving people on a go cart track.  That's why I would like to see strength in the club.



Well, Duckrider, you would fit right in down here.  These guys and gals are maniacs on the go-cart track.  I haven't actually gone with them.  I confess I am sadly lacking in interest as far as going roundy-round in a go-cart.  I can be such an old poop sometimes.  But I do alot of other wild and crazy things to make up for it.   ;D  But they go and just have a ball, so I am told. 

We do have a great gang down here.  We are an unlikely-looking conglomeration of folk.  Once when I came in late looking for the crew, the waitress described them as a family reunion.  So we have old farts and young whippersnappers of every variety.  It has been one newcomer at a time usually.  They find us on the board or see us meeting for rides at PJ's and want to be part of the fun.  If you build it, they will come.   [cheeky]


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: ducducgooseme on September 09, 2008, 05:24:54 AM
Truth be told, on the 3rd Tuesday of every month bonfy does a table dance.   [thumbsup]

How do you think we gave her the smelly pirate hooker nickname?!

Ya know for YEARS I tried getting a group consistently together in the Springs...its a hard thing to do.   Then I move to ABQ and we just kinda gelled.  Maybe we were the out casts of society who kinda melt together?



Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 09, 2008, 06:32:43 AM
Well, I guess I should chime in and say that I have not been on any rides lately because of going through a divorce and moving and figuring out how to do the "you have the kids on this day..." thing. So I have been pretty much out of the loop since mid August, and not ridden since then. But, I am still around, just tyring to juggle alot of things right now...every day and night seems to be something new.

but, yea, It is hard to get everyone together. So many things going on in so many lives..... :-\


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 09, 2008, 07:54:59 AM
Wow, sorry to hear that. Best of luck to you..... I understand the pain involved in that situation better than you know.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 09, 2008, 07:57:51 AM
You went on the one ride I did with the Soco Dogs  so you are batting 100% as far as I am concerned, cooleye.  

The NMMR is not a club really.  Our Ducati "club" is actually the High Desert Hooligans and we haven't had any formal meetings yet.  The NMMR is for the DMF so we can post up rides and pictures, perform flagrant thread-jacking manuevers, taunt, and ruthlessly mock each other which we'd probably get called down for on the main board.  There is a core group that shows up the most often for rides and get-togethers that are posted.  The rides that PJ's (our local dealership) gets together are fun and I've been on a few, but they are always on Sunday morning when I am in church or playing soccer.  Triumph riders outnumber the Duc's 4 to 1 usually, but no matter.  PJ's knows about our tight little band and they send people our way once in awhile.  They will stay in business whether we show up for their rides or not due to the rate we go through bikes and parts down here.  I know I've done my part to keep them afloat.   :-[

Everyone has issues that come up so they can't make DucNight or a ride, but it's no big deal, they catch up on the next get-together.  As for me, I have my church council meeting the second Tuesday of every month, after which I meet for pole practice with Dusty and DucMouse.  That's so that my chair dance and stage act are tuned up for the third Tuesday of every month.   [cheeky]


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 09, 2008, 08:22:17 AM
 [puke]























 ;D


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 09, 2008, 09:05:18 AM
Hey, fartknocker, being your mom may be the most challenging role I play, but it's not the only one!   :-*


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 09, 2008, 09:32:01 AM

Ya know for YEARS I tried getting a group consistently together in the Springs...its a hard thing to do.   Then I move to ABQ and we just kinda gelled.  Maybe we were the out casts of society who kinda melt together?



"Look closely at who is calling you crazy (or outcasts)".  It's all good to me. 

DDGM got us our own board and now is doing all the work of getting the HDH club going.  He has been the mover and shaker for our group for which we are all eternally grateful, even if we act like a bunch of hooligans and miscreants when it comes to abiding by the rules.  Most of us didn't even realize there were rules attached to the forum.  He is a benevolent overseer, rarely reining us in.   :-*



Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Smitch on September 09, 2008, 09:58:23 AM
I share duckrider's frustration with the level of participation here in the Springs.  That said, I can see how some of you took his posts the wrong way, especially if you haven't met him.  I assure you he's a great guy, and I know WDB and duckrider will get along swimmingly once they meet each other!

I'm just jealous of the level of involvement I see in some of the other boards.  Don't know what it is about our area.  I've thunk about it and thunk about it and can't put my finger on it.  We're all busy people, and those of us who bother to post here are at least that involved.  I can't believe the number of people who came to our first two meetings, and they are NOWHERE to be seen.  Although some people just aren't into forums.  I know I've mentioned it to a few people who seemed to dismiss me since I was pushing this forum as the main point of contact.  What can you do?

Small as we are, I appreciate those of you who are here, especially you out of towners (Denver and New Mexico) who help swell our numbers!

Cooleye, very sorry to hear about what you're going through.  I'll be prayin' for you man!


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: duckrider on September 09, 2008, 01:31:59 PM
Thank You Smitch for the support . If no one lit a fire under the Pilgrims to dump the tea we would still be under a Queen . Every one has a lot going in life and with ski and climbing season coming on strong we all will be changing gears . I will be at the next ride with Holland it would be great to see a large turn out.
 A note to Cooleye : sorry to hear your news. I've been there and belive me its does get better but when your in it its rough. If you ever need to talk or just need someone to ride with drop me a note .


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Gringo 999 on September 09, 2008, 06:22:56 PM
I started reading this thread to get caught up and got a queesy feeling in my gut.  First, I just want to remind everyone that one of only rules with this forum and the club is that we treat each other with respect.  I know both WDB and Duckrider.  I hold both of you in high regard and consider you both core members of our Ducati Owners Group.  And I agree with Smitch that you both probably will get along swimmingly.  I'm glad to see that we've worked thru the emotion!   [thumbsup]

As for the core issue here, SoCo Dog participation, I can say that I have been disappointed too.  I believe that we all want to see greater participation.  The emotion in this thread reveals that folks care about the future of this club.  I think we all need to look for little victories, like the fact that there is great comraderie with the folks that habitually visit this forum.  There is a core group of folks that, despite all the other activities we juggle, really try and get out for the rides.  We have to recognize that there is challenge balancing the needs of all our members and what they want.  We have a wide variety of people in varing stages of life and commitments. 

This summer has been a test for our group.  I think the core membership has sorted itself out.  I think we need to recognize and build around this core for next year.  We also need to spread the wealth in terms of ride and event organization.  And we need to continue to build personal relationships and extend our friendship, wherever and whenever possible, to grow our group.  Let's continue to be positive, and continue to encourage others to participate, whenever and however possible to the comraderie of SoCo D.O.G.   [beer]




Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 09, 2008, 07:55:22 PM
FTR, I bear no rancor to Duckrider and look forward to meeting him. I just wanted to say that FTR.  [beer] I'm prone to speaking my mind, just as Duckrider did. I'm not harboring any ill feelings and I hope he's not either, it doesn't seem he is, I just wanted to clarify that. I think ultimately we are all on the same page and want the same thing out of this. So +1 prez. I really think we need to reach out to every Duc rider we see though, some will come to us, but a lot of them (like I was) want a good group off riders to ride with but don't know how or where to find them. If we mention this place to riders we meet, or maybe just leave a card tucked under their seat with the SoCO DOG info on it.... who knows maybe 90% aren't interested. However that other 10%? That's 1 new rider out of every ten attempts. If we want this to be successful we gotta take it upon ourselves to be warm and welcoming,  so people feel like they are only a stranger once. In order to do that though we need to not be strangers of each other. So cheers to the future and many good times to be shared!  [beer] 


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: cooleye on September 10, 2008, 05:44:10 AM

 A note to Cooleye : sorry to hear your news. I've been there and belive me its does get better but when your in it its rough. If you ever need to talk or just need someone to ride with drop me a note .

Thanks for the thoughts everyone,....but it was a long time coming and I am not sad about it.  I am not one of those types that is going to go to the corner and suck my thumb and call for mommy ....I have a new place and a new roomate, and with the exception of not having my daughter with me every night, life still rules! Viva la Sunshine  [laugh]

My two cents about the group is this: If the ride is me and someone else, then it is good! (riding by yourself alot stinks!) But as far as my observations about this group is there is alot of "family" people in it, and that stuff comes first. I also do alot of photography and this summer I did around 6 weddings (and when are weddings??? Sat or Sun). So right there, I was out alot. Some of the other group I rode with in the past seemed to be single people or people with girlfriends/boyfriends and they had every weekend to ride.

But, I think we should still try to meetup over the winter. Just to keep everyone in the loop....and there is always that occasional warm/hot day where a last minute ride could happen. (maybe go explore Lamar where it is not cold like the mountains)!


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: bonfy on September 10, 2008, 06:45:11 AM
Well said, cooleye!

  While reading your post, I did a quick assessment of the demographics of our core group and you are right on.  Everyone of us are either single or coupled up with someone else who rides or comes along cupcake.  We only have one family guy with young children and he just recently sold all his bikes and gear so he could spend more time with the family.  That's a whole 'nother thread that covered pages and pages of replies.  We still consider him part of us, but his riding days are over for now.
 



Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Smitch on September 10, 2008, 08:50:38 AM
Great thoughts everybody!  DEFINITELY should try to get together through the winter to cry on one another's shoulders!  Great idea Cooleye.


FTR, I bear no rancor to Duckrider...  

RANCOR, awesome word!


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Scottish on September 10, 2008, 12:09:15 PM
Your flowery prose has left me with no alternatives than to step up my own game.   ;D


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: duckrider on September 10, 2008, 12:44:04 PM

WE should meet in the winter and if anyone skis we should try to go .
Cooleye your right, good things come out of a hard situation I  had to move into a new place to. When I moved in the stress was so low that the two Ducks I had went ahead and had babies and now there are  five of us.
 Looking forward to the next ride.


Title: Re: Ride Saturday 9/6
Post by: Smitch on September 10, 2008, 03:09:04 PM
...the two Ducks I had went ahead and had babies and now there are  five of us....


I need a mate for mine!


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