Ducati Monster Forum

Now with this, will there be twice as much racing to watch?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Sep/080910ussbfaq.htm

http://www.qwizx.com/gssfx/usa/tpirhorns.wav

I'm at work.  Can someone google the term "clustermake the beast with two backs" and post up whatever picture seems most applicable?  Thanks. 

Sadly, it took 6 results to get to one even remotely within the DMF guidelines.

(http://www.savesmartdvd.com/catalog/imagesbig/images3/mayhem_clustermake the beast with two backs4.jpg)

(http://andymoore.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/464px-train_wreck_at_montparnasse_1895.png)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Sep/080910ussb.htm

i can't decide if this is interesting or tragic.  guess that means it's both.

speaking of clustermake the beast with two backs, read the series of news articles @ RRW... (bottom up)

- FIRST PERSON/OPINION: Communication Not An MIC Priority
 - MIC Announces USSB Championship Series
 - DMG's Roger Edmondson Comments On Possible News Of Alternative MIC Series
 - Miller Motorsports Park CEO: Edmondson And Blank Were Slated To Meet At Indy
 - Updated: Racing Division Manager Keith McCarty Says Yamaha Plans To Race In 2009 AMA Series
 - Road America CEO: MIC Set To Launch U.S. Superbike League


http://roadracingworld.com/news/

I have not cared for the AMA racing for a very long time now. I do not like the ideas put forth by the NASCAR guys. That said, I think this latest development is not going to help sportbike racing in the US. I lived through much of the CART/IRL stupidity and the outcome of that whole situation is sad/pathetic. The split lowered the available $ per team and was a part in my not continuing in racing as my livelyhood. While not EXACTLY the same situation, the result will be much the same. While it is good that there is one series again, it is bad that the coke snorting, dope smoking, platinum spoon fed, slack jawed, never had a real job in his life guy is the one "running" the show. But that is another thread.

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34130

Yep, I read that. My personal problem with the bike situation is that I cannot stand how the NASCAR guys have perverted sports car racing and the same knobs will be running the bike stuff. Still I think the better thing would have been for there to be just the DMG and let them do what they will and the fans would vote with there wallets. This would force them to make the changes that the fans and mfg's want.

The fans HAD what they wanted with CART (in fact the IRL is almost identical to CART circa '95/'96 save for a few things). The other guy had his track and an idiotic "vision" and created his league. CART owners then had an equally idiotic idea and went public. The owners got rich since they all cashed out on the second day of the IPO and the rest is a sad history lesson that those in the motorbike industry haven't gotten around to reading yet.

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34131

the messed up thing is WHY did the manus not accept the Factory Superbike offer last month...

or why, as Edmanson pointed out, the enthusiast media is insisting on injecting themselves into the story rather than reporting on it.

Journalistic integrity for that series of articles on RRW is pretty lacking.

i don't think it's the journalism that's lacking integrity, it's some of the parties involved.

john might be a tad bitter, given he went through a lot of effort to get the ama/dmg people and the factory reps in a meeting only to be made a fool.

let's chock that comment up to i hope you're still at work.  =/)

great..... another venue opens to hear Greg White suck.

[laugh]

look at it this way: if the grid is made up of 6 bikes he'll probably be able to keep them straight for the whole race.

as long at their last names are

Smith
Jones
White
Washington
Gomez ( give him one to butcher)
Thompson

Talk about open and honest.  This is one big make the beast with two backs YOU to the MIC (and I like it).

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34138

imagine having this said about you ...

"we spent two and a half hours with Tim Buche, and I felt stupider after the meeting than I did before"

HAHAHA  [laugh]

that's a great discussion.

Regardless of the fact that MIC has put nothing substantive on the table, the one thing that is clear is that it would be a manufacturer-promoted series, which in my mind would ratchet up all of the things that make this a bad product right now and would eliminate the strong sanctioning body management that makes every other successful series in this country successful.

and it's too damn bad there'll probably not be any pro motorcycle racing at infineon anymore.

it sounds like it needs to die to get better.

thought we did that 5 years ago.

American Honda Plans To Race With Proposed USSB Series In 2009

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34144

“At this point in time, the way the AMA series is currently structured, it is unlikely that we would participate in it,” said Row. “We need to be in an environment in a series where we can demonstrate the things that we have traditionally used racing to demonstrate: innovation, durability, an environment where individual and team efforts can be recognized and rewarded, basically a series without the artificial limitations to performance or restricted options or overly-controlled conditions that inhibit creativity or reduce our team’s ability to demonstrate their expertise.”

AMA Pro Racing/Daytona Motorsports Group (DMG) has proposed several evolutions of class and rule structures for 2009, adjusting them several times to accommodate the wishes of manufacturers like American Honda and American Suzuki. Most recently, AMA/DMG offered a “Factory Superbike” 1000cc class with rules very similar to the current AMA Superbike rules and the Super Bike rules announced yesterday by USSB. But still American Honda chose to go with USSB instead of AMA Pro Racing. Why is that?

“I can’t really comment on that because I haven’t been involved in that aspect of this,” said Row.


Kawasaki Undecided On 2009 American Road Racing Plans (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34143)

KTM Plans To Road Race With AMA Pro Racing In 2009 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34146)

Yamaha Plans To Race In 2009 AMA Series (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34120)

so theoretically the USSB will be Honda, probably Suzuki, and maybe Kawasaki.  Six bikes.  or maybe eight, with Erion.  M4 Emgo has already said they'll go with DMG also.  and you can be sure that Jordan will do the same.

Also, Attack is rumored to be running BMWs in the DMG series too.  So there's one more satellite team that won't be drinking the MIC kool-aid.

whaddaya mean 'twice'?

I never watched much AMA superbike to being with!  [bang]

...and there's not much racing in that class anyway  ;D

American Suzuki’s Harris Explains Why His Company Will Race With USSB In 2009 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34161)

Suzuki sweeps entire 2009 season!

this whole thing sucks.  not that it didn't already suck, it just sucked in 1 series rather than 2.

do have to see his point about the 600s tho.  and race data.

...and not wanting to be sucking hind tit...

Personally I think Edmunson/DMG could have handled things way better.

It took years for Nascar to train the manus/owners.

Why did DMG think they could walk in and make moto racing in this country like Nascar?

I applaud the MIC and the manufacturers...

but that's just me.

i *really* can't understand what was wrong with making no changes in '09 and getting everyone on the same page for 2010.

They were offered a class that met every need/want they had and they backed out.

Their new series has no post-race teardown.

Who do you trust?

I don't trust any of them... ;)

I don't think the actual rules are really the issue between DMG and the dissenting manufacturers.

It's more complicated than that...always is.

AMA/DMG=Club racing.

Nice!! (what a wanker)

Yeah.  At least club races generally have more than 6-8 bikes on the grid.  I'd rather watch the WSMC Ninja 250 class than watch 6 guys over 35 battle it out to see whose team built the best superbike.  I can't wait until the manufacturers start squabbling with one another over rules, this series will implode SO fast.

I'd rather watch club racing any day.

edit:

This whole thing is kinda like a divorce.

The only ones that will win are the lawyers.

I aint pay'n child support

the kids(fans) always suffer the most.

Remind me again about what's happening with WSBK in the US (next year?)

Miller, 5/29-31.

edmondson won the last lawyer fight (with the ama, even).

pretty sure you and I aren't him.

This whole thing is way too political/legal to hold my interest.

Someone let me know when there's some decent pro roadracing on the east coast.

Until then those idiots can fistf&%k each other...

and I'll watch WSBK,GP...,and club racing.

Suzuki tries to pregnant dog slap Edmondson:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34164

But, he keeps his pimp hand WAY too strong:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34166

Great news.  It seems that the RE/Ray Blank meeting went well.  Hopefully this means that everyone will put their dicks back in their trousers and we'll have a united series next year.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Sep/080914rbre.htm

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Sep/080914f6q.htm

<conspiracy theory>

USSB was merely a ploy by the manufacturers to push AMA/DMG toward what the manufacturers want *now*.

</conspiracy theory>

Sounds like the insanity may be ending:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Sep/080916a.htm

Some of DMG's plans were kind of cool, but to impose such sweeping changes without the teams or manufacturers input was asinine. The current racing sucks. Watching one team constantly win and half the field on the same bike is boring. Plus, no Ducati. It also doesn't make sense to completely diverge from the WSBK and other regional formats, so all things held equal or constant, I would rather watch the USSB series than some NASCAR inspired spec racing.

agreed.


do you only watch superbike? there are two other classes, ya know.


well, the kinda earned that dominance by not abandoning the series for 2-4 years over a rule disagreement. they also havent't blank-page redesigned their race platform every two years.

the blame for their dominance falls just as much on kawasaki and yamaha for abandoning the superbike class and honda for endeding their arrangement with hrc to pull their superbike development in house.
 

that was ducati's choice not to field the 999. i can understand them not rushing to field 1098s since it's eligibility was announced so close to the start of the season. either way, it would've been legal for 2009.


agreed. but worldsbk and amasbk rules were never in lockstep. granted, the dmg propsals basically ignored them altogether.


i don't think you're gonna get a choice.  ;D

Is it possible to watch Formula Extreme? I never see it advertised.

usually airs on tuesdays with fx and superstock shown in the same hour.

this is the #1 most overlooked fact (facts) in the 'ama sbk sucks because yosh always wins complaint'.  recent events notwithstanding, it's not like yosh runs some special bike that no one else can build...

+1

Personally I wish that they'd agree on WSBK and WSS rules here. In addition, if DMG believe that there's a need to have parity in some class then they can update MotoST to American Superbike & include that in the schedule. I think it's understandable for manufacturers to be concerned about the available time to build bike for a new series (yeah, it's their fault but that doesn't really change the fact). I've always thought FX was stupid personally (again, that's IMO) it just complicates everything by having seemingly competing series (supersport & FX). I guess you could say the same for Superstock & Superbike but I think they're pretty obvious.

2009:
Same rules as 2008 for SBK
American superbike replaces Superstock & is basically MotoST (which goes away)
FX & Supersport should be merged into one ("Daytona superbike" is BS)

2010:
WSBK
ASBK (Superstock equivalent basically)
WSS

The more we're like the rest of the world, the easier it is for our riders to transition. It should (in theory) be easier and cheaper for the manufacturers to support pro motorcycle racing in the US because they don't have to develop different spec bikes. That's one element that really stands out in the DMG proposals IMO, that we would end up with several totally different classes that no one races anywhere else.

with the sale of grand-am to nascar, it's quite possible that dmg doesn't even own moto-st anymore.

i actually liked the old fx rules. it was full on run what you brung. basically no rules save the frame had to be from a production bike available in the US.

we had 750cc superbikes (w/ 1000cc twins) and 1000cc+ fx bikes with crazy f1 engineering motors.  [thumbsup]

then they gelded the class and make it 600cc "superbikes".

That sounds like a laugh. :)

I object to the FX partly because it's 600 based. It especially pisses me off that they run daytona with the FX bikes.

Warning: Can of worms being taken from the cupboard & combined with a can opener!
Not to mention that no, Duhamel may an awesome racer but, winning Daytona on the FX bikes doesn't make him Mr. Daytona.

Anyway, i'd like to see the US going down a more similar road to WSBK. If the market will support FX or other variants then great but I think they're optional.

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34470

John Ulrich, as usual, is doing a terrific job of documenting this whole fiasco.  this one is a particularly entertaining filet of Ray Blank re 600cc superbikes.

might as well read 'em in order:

1. http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34357
2. http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34358
3. http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34370
4. http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34470

Talk about retarded. I'm not a fan of the DMG proposals (don't mind the ignored compromises though) but I don't think there's much to like about the behavior of the manufacturers either. It's pretty pathetic really.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Oct/081002news.htm

Honestly, if there is no AMA next year, that's just fine with me.  For my racing fix, there's club racing locally at Sears Pt., T-hill and B-willow, and WSBK and MotoGP on TV and within driving distance at Laguna and Miller.  I feel bad for the local privateers who race the AMA rounds, but other than that . . .  <shrug>

if in fact DMG has agreements with all these tracks enough to give a schedule for '09 (they must), and if all the OEMs continue to be pissed off (who wouldn't be at this point), and if the USSB continues to be vaporware (i think it always was), we may very well end up with a national, and nationally televised, club racing series.



...especially when all they had to do was nothing until 2010, it's just pathetic.

gm2,

When they announce a rules package, get a bike that fits, and I think you could podium at the local races.

Same for Tigre.

<not completely in jest>

Weren't they going to do something with the rules package that made it nearly impossible for privateers to afford racing?  I forget what it was. 

yeah, i think it's called "tires".


;)

 [laugh] Isn't that true of all racing?