We have this thread:
Pistols (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=423.0)
this thread:
Rifles (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3901.0)
and this thread:
Shotguns (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=4917.0)
So now is the time for the resurgence of the greatest coffee table gun owners debate in history
What is the perfect 3 gun cabinet?
after many discussions I felt the perfect combo is
Mossberg 500 in 12g
Winchester Model 94 in .30/.30
Ruger Blackhawk in .357
but
What about matching calibers?
What about high power rifles?
What about the tactical argument?
Mossberg 590 or Benneli 1014 in 12g
AR-15 in .223 or AK-47 in 7.62
Glock in 9mm or Sig in 10mm or 1911 in .45
thus the debate becomes endless
or
Is it even possible to have a perfect 3 gun cabinet?
Quote from: Mother on September 12, 2008, 04:52:52 AM
Is it even possible to have a perfect 3 gun cabinet?
My perfect 3 gun locker or a perfect one that everyone agrees on?
Quote from: GotDuc on September 12, 2008, 04:58:37 AM
My perfect 3 gun locker or a perfect one that everyone agrees on?
Both
Everytime I am settled on mine
I get the itch for an AR-15
or
matching the the Ruger and the lever gun in .357 or .44mag
I'm finally in the market to purchase another gun so the debate looms over my decision
hmm...
right now, i'd load up with the following:
AK-47, in the traditional 7.62x39.
mossberg 500/590 in 12 gauge.
any good quality handgun in 9mm or .45 (for ammo availability reasons).
Tough one
Browning 20 gauge over and under
Glock 40 Cal Handgun
Winchester 308
Now if'n this was a 4 gun cabinet I would add my Contender.
My current cabinet:
Mosberg 500
Browning A-bolt .270Win
HK P-7 9mm
Now all I need is the cabinet. [thumbsup]
Rock River LAR 8 in .308
FN 1300 Shotgun with 8 shot mag and 18" barrel
HK Compact .45
I feel your itch for the AR, they are like a Ducati in that they are totally customizable and cool just sitting there. The .223 just doesnt do it for me.....check out that LAR.
We can only have three?......What am I going to do with the other 52?
Quote from: Mother on September 12, 2008, 05:01:39 AM
I get the itch for an AR-15
Look at Noveske's offerings...made in Grants Pass.
Perfect 3-gun cabinet? Mine would probably go:
1911 in .45
Mossy 500/590
AR-15 from Noveske...chambered in either .223 or 7.62/.308
Springfield M1A
Browning 1911 .45
FN Tactial pump shotgun
I think once you get the 3 guns in your cabinet, "next-gun-itis" will kick in until said cabinet is full. Im on my third safe. Started out with the steel 12 gun locker, then went to a corner version. Now Ive got the Browning Medallion 42 rifle mega safe and now thats looking a little jam packed.....
I am not ruling out the twin Medallion setup.
I'm a relative newb and am admittedly no gunsmith but the three favs I've handled and would want in my cabinet if I had the funds...
AR-15 (.458 round) (would mod or pay to mod to enable SA and 3 round burst auto).
Kimber Custom II .45 (well made, ammo readily avail, parts parts parts galore)
Beretta 686 20g (my GSP would thank me for the extra field time and the gun is a functional piece of art that my kids and kids kids would use)
Quote from: Sinister on September 12, 2008, 08:35:43 AM
Look at Noveske's offerings...made in Grants Pass.
that sure beats the $900.00 RRA
talk to me about the pro/con of the 1 in 7 twist over the 1 in 9
My choices?
.45 1911, with a .22 top end for plinking.
Any good pump action 12 - something classic (wood stock) with a medium length barrel that would be for bird hunting duty.
Remington 700 with a good scope for the range, to hone your long-distance shooting and use for big game hunting.
With that collection all my needs would be met. Cheap practice (1911 .22), bird hunting, game hunting. Short range (1911), medium range (12), long range (700).
Matching calibers defeats the purpose.
12 gauge pump shotgun, any make with at least 5 rd capacity
or
12 gauge pump shotgun with 12" barrel, full capacity (4 rds)
any modern self loading rifle in 308. my vote is for the FAL
or
AK47
357 mag revolver, preferably the Taurus Tracker. has 7 rd cylinder and a ported barrel. Stainless not Titanium version.
or
CZ75 or 85 in 9mm
i like common calibers
i like full capacity rifles
i like things that work and don't jam.
Quote from: Mother on September 12, 2008, 02:21:51 PM
that sure beats the $900.00 RRA
talk to me about the pro/con of the 1 in 7 twist over the 1 in 9
depends on which 5.56 ammo you are using.
if you are using 55 gr SS109, the twist should be 1:12, but for various reasons the 1:9 and 1:7 are used with good effect with the heavier ball currently used (62 gr).
the main advantage of the 1:7 is for the M4 barrel which is 14" of rifling. but mainly for heavier (>60gr) projectiles.
Forgive my newb question here I am certainly no gunsmith. I thought the advantage of 1 in 7 was that it spun faster and enabled using heavier ammo with better effect? Why would you want to use 1 in 12 as opposed to it?
Quote from: COWBOY on September 14, 2008, 11:09:23 AM
Why would you want to use 1 in 12 as opposed to it?
Note that he mentioned a 55-grain bullet with regard to the 1:12 twist. With greater bullet weight (65-gr, etc.), a 1:7 (in M4 barrel lengths) or 1:9 is preferred.
Quote from: COWBOY on September 14, 2008, 11:09:23 AM
Forgive my newb question here I am certainly no gunsmith. I thought the advantage of 1 in 7 was that it spun faster and enabled using heavier ammo with better effect? Why would you want to use 1 in 12 as opposed to it?
Depends on the projectile weight. 55 is the old weight, 63 is the new, so the SP1's had a 1:14 turn with a 55 gr projectile, but now the issue is 63 gr with a 1:7 or 1:9 turn depending on the barrel (M16 vs M4 etc)
Quote from: Sinister on September 14, 2008, 12:38:02 PM
Note that he mentioned a 55-grain bullet with regard to the 1:12 twist. With greater bullet weight (65-gr, etc.), a 1:7 (in M4 barrel lengths) or 1:9 is preferred.
...what he said..
so is there some sort of "optimal" algorithm for gm/twist?
Quote from: c_rex on September 14, 2008, 05:46:20 PM
so is there some sort of "optimal" algorithm for gm/twist?
no
it is a function of your projectile, powder load, broach depth and probably a dozen other things you'll never figure out even with the best voodoo.
trial and error. if you reload, then you can tune your ammo for your twist, but generally it's better to have a slower twist with a lighter projectile and faster (and hotter) with heavier.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on September 13, 2008, 07:06:58 PM
Matching calibers defeats the purpose.
in the case of .357 or .44
it means only having to find, purchase, and carry one type of brass
and
can be used to effect in both the short and medium range catagory
note however that in my area, a shot farther thn 150yds is highly unlikely so the pistol chambered carbines are a viable option over the .06 or .308
Quote from: ducatizzzz on September 14, 2008, 12:40:47 PM
Depends on the projectile weight. 55 is the old weight, 63 is the new, so the SP1's had a 1:14 turn with a 55 gr projectile, but now the issue is 63 gr with a 1:7 or 1:9 turn depending on the barrel (M16 vs M4 etc)
...what he said..
is the new 62gr round having any more single shot effect over the old 55gr round?
or has Irag made it more and more clear that a .30 cal bullet is worth the weight to carry?
Some of you people know entirely too much about guns and ammo. ;)
Quote from: Mother on September 15, 2008, 10:48:48 AM
is the new 62gr round having any more single shot effect over the old 55gr round?
or has Irag made it more and more clear that a .30 cal bullet is worth the weight to carry?
A bro-in-the-know says he's tired of shooting people and not having them die. He recommends the .308, highly.
iDuc - Your post makes absolutely no sense to me. ;D
My threat level is minimal, and I'm in the 'burbs so the houses are fairly close together. An AR-15 or such would be way over-penetrating for the neighborhood. I'm going old school: a 1911 .45 with HydraShok frangible loads, a Remington Model 870 12 gauge with .00 buckshot, and something small and lightweight to carry if necessary ( with proper permits, of course): .38 Special wheelgun??
Quote from: iDuc on September 15, 2008, 01:12:59 PM
My threat level is minimal, and I'm in the 'burbs so the houses are fairly close together. An AR-15 or such would be way over-penetrating for the neighborhood. I'm going old school: a 1911 .45 with HydraShok frangible loads, a Remington Model 870 12 gauge with .00 buckshot, and something small and lightweight to carry if necessary ( with proper permits, of course): .38 Special wheelgun??
I like your plan. The AR-15 is for the apocolypticon inside of me...must have one!!!
One thought, though: why not use the 1911 for carry (though not small and lightweight, I guess). I've never been a fan of carrying revolvers, as they are bulkier than semi-autos. A revolver is a great thing to have around.
Quote from: Mother on September 15, 2008, 10:48:48 AM
is the new 62gr round having any more single shot effect over the old 55gr round?
kill-wise, no
accuracy-wise, yes.
Quoteor has Irag made it more and more clear that a .30 cal bullet is worth the weight to carry?
6.5 is the new AR round.
Quote from: Mother on September 15, 2008, 10:43:13 AM
in the case of .357 or .44
it means only having to find, purchase, and carry one type of brass
i agree with the sentiment, but rarely can you get similar performance out of a longer barrel. powder is different.
Quoteand
can be used to effect in both the short and medium range catagory
note however that in my area, a shot farther thn 150yds is highly unlikely so the pistol chambered carbines are a viable option over the .06 or .308
that's a different issue. but having a long range (or medium) option is smart.
Quote from: iDuc on September 15, 2008, 10:49:59 AM
Some of you people know entirely too much about guns and ammo. ;)
no, it is that most people know entirely too little. my brother-in-law is a bona fide hoplophobe. he won't let his kids in my house despite the fact my firearm collection is in a room safe. he's an idiot.
Quote from: Sinister on September 15, 2008, 11:46:52 AM
A bro-in-the-know says he's tired of shooting people and not having them die. He recommends the .308, highly.
+1 or any round > 80 gr projectile.
for comparison, a typical 9mm pistol projectile is 140 grains weight. a GI issue M16 round is 62 grains weight. do the math, regardless of velocity, the 9mm has more weight to hit. a typical 7.62x51 round has 152 grains (16 grains is about 1 gram)
Quote from: iDuc on September 15, 2008, 01:12:59 PM
My threat level is minimal, and I'm in the 'burbs so the houses are fairly close together. An AR-15 or such would be way over-penetrating for the neighborhood. I'm going old school: a 1911 .45 with HydraShok frangible loads, a Remington Model 870 12 gauge with .00 buckshot, and something small and lightweight to carry if necessary ( with proper permits, of course): .38 Special wheelgun??
wheelguns are useful in home-def situations esp urban where break-ins are opportunistic versus planned as in exurban. check out the Glazer Safety rounds. any 9mm or above autoloader is also good provided you can control it.
typical AR rounds will not penetrate more than one sheet of plaster (sheetrock) before disintegrating.
shotguns are special and require some practice. most of us are not used to going through the house with a 3-ft projection (unless we are exceptionally well hung). shotguns are the best IMHO but require some planning for storage and access. handguns are easier to secure.
Quote from: Sinister on September 15, 2008, 01:42:36 PM
I like your plan. The AR-15 is for the apocolypticon inside of me...must have one!!!
One thought, though: why not use the 1911 for carry (though not small and lightweight, I guess). I've never been a fan of carrying revolvers, as they are bulkier than semi-autos. A revolver is a great thing to have around.
good point on carrying revolvers. the J-frames are thinner with 5 rounds, but still are thicker than a typical 9mm autoloader.
the issue iwth autoloaders is just familiarity. carrying a J-frame is not hard but requires some planning. you can carry your KelTec P3AT in your belt, but a revolver needs to be in a hip or underarm holster.
Okay, let's dig deeper. Shotguns: autoloader or pump? I recently acquired a pump, but have hunted with an autoloader for years. Thoughts?
Pump, less hang ups and you can easily cycle through a bad round. Plus the satisfying Chick-Chick when you put one in the Pipe! [thumbsup]
Interesting points, but I was also thinking of the adrenaline dump and/or freeze-up causing a person to forget to rack the slide.
I don't get the satisfying 'chick-chick' until the second round. An unloaded gun is slightly better than useless.
Thats where practice and muscle memory kick in. Same thing could happen with the safety if you keep one in the chamber.
I had buck fever once while carrying my .45-70. Missed a 20 yard broadside shot with all 5 rounds. Was embarrassing as hell because my buddies and I were walking to our stands, making all kinds of noise and heres this dumb 6 point staring at me. I have been intimate with the "Adrenaline Dump" you speak of....lol
Quote from: rgramjet on September 16, 2008, 10:42:33 AM
Thats where practice and muscle memory kick in. Same thing could happen with the safety if you keep one in the chamber.
I had buck fever once while carrying my .45-70. Missed a 20 yard broadside shot with all 5 rounds. Was embarrassing as hell because my buddies and I were walking to our stands, making all kinds of noise and heres this dumb 6 point staring at me. I have been intimate with the "Adrenaline Dump" you speak of....lol
I've had the same experience. I've also had the experience of realizing, later, that I had taken the safety off without even a thought.
check into the auto-pumps. Benelli M4 or SPAS for instance. I think there are a few more.
Same reason the USMC picked the M4 : use it as an autoloader, then pump when it jams or using a low power load.
^^^^^^Interesting. I've got all the shotguns I need for right now. I'm looking at other facets of the collection, currently.
What are you leaning towards?
I'm looking at, in almost no order: AR-15/M4, Ruger 22/45, Ruger Vaquero, Something in .300 WinMag, Something in .30-.30 lever action...
Actually, that order is pretty close. If McCain wins, the AR purchase can get put off for a few extra months.
My "3 guns" are:
Shotgun: Rem 870 in 12 ga with a 20 inch barrel and ghost sights. I have a TacStar side saddle on it, I love those. Aluma-hyde finish, non-reflective.
Rifle: Belgian FAL 50.63 rifle. so-called paratrooper version with a short barrel (18" and folding stock). I put a T28 type scope on it with the Tapco STANAG mount.
Pistol: Remington 870 AOW with a 12" barrel and pistol grip. Just kidding. But it does qualify as a pistol due to barrel length.
Actually, I'd have to say the Colt King Cobra in .357. Never misfire, never miss. it's a tack driver. That or the CZ85 in 9mm. Both are stunning weapons. The CZ is the original military version with no pin safety.
I chose weapons where ammo is either widely available or that the invading UN troops will have.
Duca "This is my boom stick!!" Tizzz
Quote from: ducatizzzz on September 16, 2008, 03:58:59 PM
I chose weapons where ammo is either widely available or that the invading UN troops will have.
Which is why I am now adding a 9-mm to my list of future acquisitions. Thanks, 'tizzz [bang]
AHA! I can say it's for the wife! That's it. "Honey, I bought you a pistol." [thumbsup]
Quote from: Sinister on September 17, 2008, 08:14:18 AM
Which is why I am now adding a 9-mm to my list of future acquisitions. Thanks, 'tizzz [bang]
AHA! I can say it's for the wife! That's it. "Honey, I bought you a pistol." [thumbsup]
nothing wrong with the Parabellum
cheap ammo, decent kill potential
at the end of the day, if you can land a double-tap to the forehead, you don't need to worry about what caliber it was.
True that^^^
I like to keep my gun cabinet simple
SBR registered AR15 lower with the fun switch and 5.56 and 6.8 caliber uppers in different lengths and a couple good quality suppressors (in the interests of paying the mortgage and keeping food on the table probably have to delete the fun switch)
870 with extended tube, compensated barrel and oversized safety
SA Loaded 1911 in stainless with ambi safety and a Marvel .22 conversion upper