All this talk about guns has made me want one. Seeing as how I've never owned one and I've only ever shot a .22 rifle and a 12 gauge over-under, I'm going to need a lot of help. I'm open to handgun, rifle or shotgun. I'd just like to be able to learn a bit about guns, how to take care of them and maybe practice a little bit. Basically I'm looking for the Ninja 250 of fire arms. I'm located in Baltimore. I know there are a few ranges around here and a skeet/trap place that offers lessons and rentals around.
What did you guys start with?
Let's start with, what do you want to do? Just a plinker? I'd say start with a .22. Shoot clays? Go o/u, if you have the scratch.
I've shot clays before and thought that was fun. I guess mostly what I want to do is learn about guns and develop some skills. Maybe see if it could become a hobby I could get into. Something usable for home defense/intimidation would be good as well. I never had a problem living in Baltimore, but there have been some incidents recently that have got me thinking.
O/U?
you can rent pistols at a few ranges in the area. Not sure if instruction comes with it.
You can come to Select Fire with me some afternoon...I'll put the .22 top end on the Wilson for a few sessions and then at some point go back to .45
plenty of targets, extra set of earmuffs, ammo etc.
Happy to go over some basic safety stuff.
oh...never get a gun for intimidation. good way to get killed. It does not ever come out unless it is to be used.
A good starter would be to check the NRA site for any classes they may offer. I know they used to hold a regular schedule of classes in Fairfax ranging from beginner 101 to more advanced shooting techniques etc.
Quote from: Statler on September 12, 2008, 12:58:18 PM
oh...never get a gun for intimidation. good way to get killed. It does not ever come out unless it is to be used.
Oh sorry, I didn't mean to carry around or anything. I just meant to take it out in house. Recently someone busted in the back door of my girlfriend's house and that was 2 blocks away. Luckily, no one was home.
Here's a list of their basic courses.
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp#pistol
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1122/1342441607_27e3d60078.jpg?v=0)
or did you mean the other type
;D
there's a caliber joke in there somewhere.
Decide on it's use. If it's just for home defense it's hard to beat a pump action shotgun. A 9 shot Mossberg Model 500 in 12 gauge can be had for about 250 bucks. It will shoot slugs or any shotshell and will absolutly destroy whatever you hit with it.No pistol grip BS unless it is coupled with a regular or folding stock.
If you want something fun for plinking that is still excellent for home defense a quality semi auto centerfire rifle is a good consideration. The mini 14, ar-15, ak-47 or any mid size intermediate caliber "assault rifle" is very handy and fun. They generally have low recoil as they fire an intermediate sized cartridge. They are pretty easy to learn as they are light ,handy military rifles. They are also incredibly fun to shoot. Nothing makes me smile quite like a 30 round mag dump !!! A cheap AK can be had for around 350 to 400 bucks. AR's are much higher and the mini 14 is in the middle as far as cost goes.
If you want something for concealability as well as plinking/home defense any one of the hundreds of models of handgun will suit your needs. I would say 9mm minimum as the caliber in whatever design you think fits the bill. Semi auto or revolver. Whichever you choose there are many good choices. The reason I don't rate it first as a home defense weapon is that pistols are much more difficult to shoot accuratly than a rifle/shotgun and are also far less powerful.
If you really just want a first timers firearm that is cheap and fun then get a .22. It's a dog in the self defense category but would be perfect for plinking and target shooting. I prefer things to blow up and fly when I plink which is why I'm not a huge fan of the .22.
as others have said get proper training first, nothing worse than someone that is "afraid of their shadow" getting a gun with no instruction or someone getting a gun "for self defense or to be tough" etc, with no proper training or respect for the firearm.
its not a decision to be taken lightly to own a firearm. sure you can easily get one at your local sports authority but that doens't mean everyone should have one
like others say, figure out why you want one and then go from there, and remember if you mess up with a gun its usually not a situation that will end well.
How to buy a gun.
1) Decide what you want
2) Buy it
3) learn how to use it
4) be awesome at it
5) shoot often.
Quote from: Statler on September 12, 2008, 12:58:18 PM
...I'll put the .22 top end on the Wilson for a few sessions and then at some point go back to .45
I knew you had good taste...which model Wilson?
Home defense: baseball bat.
First gun: .22 rifle
Reasoning:
Aa firearm noob in a home defense situation is more likely to get the gun taken away from them and end up shot, or shooting their roommate/S.O./kid when they come home late one night than they are to actually shoot a home intruder.
You can get a .22 rifle at K'mart for under $150, you can shoot it in your local woods (with precautions) or shooting range, the shells are cheap enough so you shoot more often and become more proficient, and if you lose interest, you're not out much money.
My .02
For any first firearm, you can't beat a .22, regardless of the type.
22 revolvers, autoloaders, rifles galore.
Shooting is an art. Shooting well is a science.
Take a class that doesn't require you to own a gun first (most do).
Depending on where you are, you may have some ranges that rent guns, but don't go for the big calibers. The mechanics are the same you are just asking to get annoyed with it at first. You won't have the muscles to be accurate with any powerful cartrige (i.e. anything over 32 ACP -- seriously!)
Pump shotguns are a great home defense option, as is a revolver. I recommend both. The revolver will get you around the house better, but the shotgun is good at controlling a crowd. The handgun is easier to stow and secure, esp if you have children in the home, but a shotgun will get you more immediate respect. Either way, it's better to have either one than neither.
Statler's point about a gun not being for intimidation is right. If they are intimidated, let it be as they are running from being shot at. A firearm is a device to kill someone, not a scary movie. Use it correctly and you'll live longtime.
Whatever you buy, practice with it a lot. Get to know it -- learn to strip and clean it. Learn to store it safely, to carry it safely, etc.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on September 12, 2008, 06:48:03 PM
Pump shotguns are a great home defense option, //the shotgun is good at controlling a crowd.// but a shotgun will get you more immediate respect.
Don't ya just hate it when burglars come in a crowd! ;D
It's a valid point. . . if you piss off a street gang, but maybe just a touch too severe a scenario for a first time gun buyer to be contemplating?
Quote from: Bun-bun on September 12, 2008, 07:07:46 PM
Don't ya just hate it when burglars come in a crowd! ;D
It's a valid point. . . if you piss off a street gang, but maybe just a touch too severe a scenario for a first time gun buyer to be contemplating?
Burglars often work in groups. I've had two break-ins in my lifetime, both times it was 2 guys. Both times they got to see the action end of a shotgun, but it was a coach gun... good Southern style home defense.
Quote from: Bun-bun on September 12, 2008, 07:07:46 PM
Don't ya just hate it when burglars come in a crowd! ;D
It's a valid point. . . if you piss off a street gang, but maybe just a touch too severe a scenario for a first time gun buyer to be contemplating?
Ill bet Redskins player Sean Taylor wished he had a shotgun when that group of turds, robbed and shot him dead....
Quote from: rgramjet on September 12, 2008, 07:30:07 PM
Ill bet Redskins player Sean Taylor wished he had a shotgun when that group of turds, robbed and shot him dead....
that stinks
Quote from: ducatizzzz on September 12, 2008, 07:35:43 PM
that stinks
Aye Mama.....
There is a large gun show in Chantilly VA this weekend! Good place to check out tons-o-guns! Im taking my son to the NRA museum tomorrow then hit'n the show!
Quote from: rgramjet on September 12, 2008, 07:39:20 PM
Aye Mama.....
There is a large gun show in Chantilly VA this weekend! Good place to check out tons-o-guns! Im taking my son to the NRA museum tomorrow then hit'n the show!
we went to the museum a while back. it is interesting, but don't expect to be blown away (no pun intended). it's a bit "sedate"
that's The Nation's Gun Show, it's every 2 months. i may pop in to see if i can scrounge some cheap ammo.
Cool, Im on the prowl for an LAR 8 and/or an airweight .357 as well as some optics...
Quote from: rgramjet on September 12, 2008, 07:49:42 PM
Cool, Im on the prowl for an LAR 8 and/or an airweight .357 as well as some optics...
i've never seen such great deals on commodity guns. a lot of regular dealers there who aren't selling cheap. maybe a few, but you can usually find prices a little better on gunbroker even with the transfer charge. unusual stuff (like the K31 sniper that I drool over) are good finds, but pricey. there is a guy who sells ammo only and has decent deals, i forget his name. has a lot of milsurp stuff.
Gun show here was last weekend.
I have nothing against the shotgun for home defense argument. I have a Mossberg 500 among other weapons placed around the house (See 3 gun cabinet thread).
It's just that I think y'all are moving a tad far afield of the original question, ie what's a good first gun(singular) for a noob shooter?
Quote from: Bun-bun on September 12, 2008, 07:07:46 PM
Don't ya just hate it when burglars come in a crowd! ;D
It's a valid point. . . if you piss off a street gang, but maybe just a touch too severe a scenario for a first time gun buyer to be contemplating?
If I knew anything about guns, I would have a smartass answer for you. :-\
Quote from: kopfjager on September 12, 2008, 08:00:27 PM
If I knew anything about guns, I would have a smartass answer for you. :-\
Not trying to be a smartass. See above.
After you're comfortable around guns, and have some knowledge, and don't think a gun makes you invincible, or hot shit, Yeah, a shotgun for home defense is a valid choice. A damn sight better than an AK-47 or AR-15, which has been known to go through the wall and kill a neighbor by accident.
A first gun should be easy to use, and cheap to fire. I can buy 500rds. of .22 for the same price as (or less than) a 20 rd. box of 12 ga. shells. Rifle vs. pistol, as a rifle is easier to fire accurately.
that's all.
A Ruger 10/22, a couple of 30 round banana clips and a brick of .22s makes for a fun afternoon. [thumbsup]
Quote from: rgramjet on September 12, 2008, 08:13:43 PM
A Ruger 10/22, a couple of 30 round banana clips and a brick of .22s makes for a fun afternoon. [thumbsup]
+1
Quote from: Bun-bun on September 12, 2008, 08:10:53 PM
Not trying to be a smartass. See above.
After you're comfortable around guns, and have some knowledge, and don't think a gun makes you invincible, or hot shit, Yeah, a shotgun for home defense is a valid choice. A damn sight better than an AK-47 or AR-15, which has been known to go through the wall and kill a neighbor by accident.
A first gun should be easy to use, and cheap to fire. I can buy 500rds. of .22 for the same price as (or less than) a 20 rd. box of 12 ga. shells. Rifle vs. pistol, as a rifle is easier to fire accurately.
that's all.
Unless that first gun is a do all that must be used as a defensive weapon. A .22 will kill a person with ease but you have to wait for them to die. They could easily harm you while they bleed to death then run away to die in the street or local ER. If it's a one choice firearm that needs to plink and be a home defense weapon you need a shotgun or rifle. A rifle such as the AR-15 is an outstanding home defense weapon as is almost any shotgun. The overpenetration issue is a weak argument because any weapon of sufficient power to incapacitiate a human attacker will penetrate several sheets of drywall with absolute ease. This includes a shotgun loaded with anything other than birdshot. And birdshot is woefully inadequate as a defense round.
Quote from: XiaoNio on September 12, 2008, 12:42:45 PM
All this talk about guns has made me want one. Seeing as how I've never owned one and I've only ever shot a .22 rifle and a 12 gauge over-under, I'm going to need a lot of help. I'm open to handgun, rifle or shotgun. I'd just like to be able to learn a bit about guns, how to take care of them and maybe practice a little bit. Basically I'm looking for the Ninja 250 of fire arms. I'm located in Baltimore. I know there are a few ranges around here and a skeet/trap place that offers lessons and rentals around.
What did you guys start with?
O.k. real simple.
Self/home defense is not mentioned.
He wants a gun to become familiar with guns.
He asks what did we start out with.
Serious question: Did any of you start shooting with anything other than a .22?
I started when I was 8.
With a .22.
I shot competition rifle while at military school. With a .22
I shot competition in ROTC. With a .22
I still shoot at least once a week,. with a .22
I enter at least 1 turkey shoot every year. With a .22
Habla?
I too vote .22 for a first gun. In addition to all the aforementioned benefits it is also an excellent caliber by which to NOT get intimidated, thereby developing a flinch, or beat up while learning how to shoot. I'm practicing for elk hunting by shooting with an airgun for this reason. I'd be using my 10/22 if it were legal in my backyard and the range costs money (I'm a cheap S.O.B.). I've been shooting and hunting off and on for 30 years but when I think back to where it all began I'm glad I started with a .22 and I'm glad that I still have a couple.
As an aside- I lived in Baltimore for a year. Scariest place I've ever spent any time in. I lived about 1/2 mile from Camden Yards/Inner Harbor and I frequently went to bed to the sound of gunshots, police sirens and helicoptors. Even if you don't get a gun for protection you should consider some self defense classes. I just got the #$@! out and ran back to Momma 'cuz I'm her boy. [laugh]
Quote from: Bun-bun on September 12, 2008, 08:29:56 PM
O.k. real simple.
Self/home defense is not mentioned.
He wants a gun to become familiar with guns.
He asks what did we start out with.
Serious question: Did any of you start shooting with anything other than a .22?
I started when I was 8.
With a .22.
I shot competition rifle while at military school. With a .22
I shot competition in ROTC. With a .22
I still shoot at least once a week,. with a .22
I enter at least 1 turkey shoot every year. With a .22
Habla?
I habla just fine. He said in his second post (the third in this thread) that he also would like a gun for protection/intimidation because his girlfirends place was recently broken into. I started with a .410 shotgun, then a .54 caliber muzzle loader. I was an experienced shooter before I shot my first .22. I'm not interested in an internet pissing match just trying to give the best info on what a good universally usable firearm is. A firearm that would fit every need of the OP. A .22 isn't the one that fits everything he asks of it. If it's 99% plinking and 1% self defense buy whatever you want. If you'll plink once or twice every six months and want something in your closet that will take care of everything else as well get a shotgun or a centerfire rifle. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with .22 or that they make bad first guns. On the contrary my daughter learned on one. I've also killed a blue million squirrels with them.When the OP mentioned self defense in the third post in this thread the .22 was disqualified in my opinion.
The .22 is a fine first weapon and great to learn on for sure but as soon as a self defense need is thrown in I think other things. This may be a little far afield from his first post but considering every need has led me to this. If he wants something easy and cheap to learn on and has a need for self defense he should buy an airgun (to learn firearms handling,trigger discipline and the other rules of shooting) and a shotgun. The more the merrier !! After a few years he'll be like....how did one gun turn into fifteen. ;D
Quote from: c_rex on September 12, 2008, 10:02:16 PM
As an aside- I lived in Baltimore for a year. Scariest place I've ever spent any time in. I lived about 1/2 mile from Camden Yards/Inner Harbor and I frequently went to bed to the sound of gunshots, police sirens and helicoptors. Even if you don't get a gun for protection you should consider some self defense classes. I just got the #$@! out and ran back to Momma 'cuz I'm her boy. [laugh]
my parents, in their 60s, live walking distance to Camden Yards and it's the sweetest community I've seen in a long time. They walk everywhere with my 2 1/2 year old. Science Center, Aquarium, Cross Street Market (where all the vendors know them), Fort McHenry. Been that way since the 90s when I strated hanging out there.
Everyone should be able to defend themselves, but that's just smart for life, it's not specifically because of living in Baltimore.
Quote from: Statler on September 13, 2008, 05:56:07 AM
my parents, in their 60s, live walking distance to Camden Yards and it's the sweetest community I've seen in a long time. They walk everywhere with my 2 1/2 year old. Science Center, Aquarium, Cross Street Market (where all the vendors know them), Fort McHenry. Been that way since the 90s when I strated hanging out there.
Everyone should be able to defend themselves, but that's just smart for life, it's not specifically because of living in Baltimore.
True...much better, but I was caught in the middle of an armored car robbery with AR-15 and 9mm round flying about on Charles St. about 3 blocks north of Pratt.
My .02c...Before you buy any type of weapon...familiarize yourself with the basics. Statler gave you a great option to begin with...go to the range with someone who is knowledgeable, qualified, able, and is squared away. Once you get the basics down and the technical capabilities of several weapons, you can choose based off of your experiences. Most ranges have rentals...rent them, but not alone...Go with Statler, or take someone with you.
When you finish...my recommendation (ready for the comments), is a Glock 19...simple, shorter 9mm...just watch the safety, or lack there of.
Personally, I love my .22 but can't stand shooting .22's for fun... It just doesn't do it for me after I shot something with power. Depending on where you live, if there is a nice range that will let you rent different firearms, that's your best bet. I live in SC so we have lots of gun stores. When going to get my first handgun, I shot almost every one they had, Glock, HK, S&W revolvers, etc. and it still took me 3 trips renting and re-renting to decide.
If you're trying to "get into" guns, I would say get a handgun because they are a whole lot of fun to shoot. I really love my first, a Glock 9mm, it's more accurate than me and is really reliable, hence why most cops carry one. My second was a HK .45, which I can't shoot nearly as well as my Glock. Revolvers are also a blast to shoot. They weigh a hell of a lot more than most but are sooooo accurate.
+1 on what everybody else has said about familiarizing yourself with them. There are so many to choose from, it's a tough first choice. Go to a reputable shop and talk to the guys. Hold as many as you can and shoot as many as you can. In the end, BUY WHAT YOU WANT as this will make you the happiest. I can't wait to hear your decision and then the follow up questions of "What to mod first?" or "What accessory to buy first?" Good Luck...
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate all information. I think it's going to go something like this...
1. Cut a hole in the box
2. Take a class then hang w/ Statler
3. Buy a .22
4. ...
5. Profit?
I'm not in a huge rush to protect my house. I think it's something that I'd like to have after I learn some safety and maintenance. I do love the idea of a pump action, but I think a plinking gun might be the better way to start. I can always sell it later right? Anyway, any suggestions of what kind of .22 to look into?
Quote from: XiaoNio on September 15, 2008, 08:50:16 AM
Anyway, any suggestions of what kind of .22 to look into?
Ruger 10/22.
Ruger Mark II or Mark III.
Splurge and get both, for a great shared caliber way to learn both rifle and handgun.
Quote from: trenner on September 15, 2008, 11:16:47 AM
Ruger 10/22.
Ruger Mark II or Mark III.
Splurge and get both, for a great shared caliber way to learn both rifle and handgun.
+1
Ruger 10/22 for sure. Easy to use, aftermarket parts for years, and great resale value.
I shoot a Ruger MKII target w/ lightened trigger in competition. Superb pistol.
Quote from: Bun-bun on September 15, 2008, 12:15:38 PM
+1
I shoot a Ruger MKII target w/ lightened trigger in competition. Superb pistol.
+2
Mines in SS with a red dot, great pistol for falling plates! It hates cheap ammo though...relatively speaking.
Quote from: XiaoNio on September 15, 2008, 08:50:16 AM
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate all information. I think it's going to go something like this...
1. Cut a hole in the box
2. hang w/ Statler then take a class (many classes will either start way over your head or be painfully boring)
3. Buy a Ruger MK II
4. ... ;D
5. Profit?
I'm not in a huge rush to protect my house. I think it's something that I'd like to have after I learn some safety and maintenance. I do love the idea of a pump action, but I think a plinking gun might be the better way to start. I can always sell it later right? Anyway, any suggestions of what kind of .22 to look into?
May I amend your list a bit? ;)
Quote from: trenner on September 15, 2008, 11:16:47 AM
Ruger 10/22.
Ruger Mark II or Mark III.
Splurge and get both, for a great shared caliber way to learn both rifle and handgun.
+1 on the MkII / MkIII pistol
I have an original 1959 Standard Model . It's pretty much the same. They are "bulletproof" and will last forever if you keep them clean. Had to replace the firing pin after 43 years. That's it.
Quote from: XiaoNio on September 15, 2008, 08:50:16 AM
I can always sell it later right? Anyway, any suggestions of what kind of .22 to look into?
Resale value is about 60% of new for new model guns. For old model guns, about 40-50%. For antique, it is whatever the market supports.
Find a gun show and shop. Don't buy anything first time. Stuff always comes around. Ruger Mk and Standard models are popular guns and command high resale value (mainly because 22 is a super-popular round and because they never break)