Ducati Monster Forum

Enzo and I bought two trackday packages with Keigwins at the Track waaaaaay back in January.  We had scheduled to do two before the wedding (because I was so fond of saying "Casts and lace don't mix...) and the last three after.  Our last trackday was back in April and the thought of dusting off (literally) the trackbikes and heading out there had us both a little nervous.  Both DATV and Tigre were instructing which helped to ease my fears.  They're always good for tips and a tow around the loop.

The day started off pretty much as expected.  My head was still in a fog from sleeping in a strange place the night before, work, you name it... The riders' meeting was packed and I assumed that there were more than a few guys and gals in there who had been to the track several times by now who had signed up in my group.  They had been getting faster and probably wanted to move up and couldn't.  That meant that the little 400 and I would be a rolling chicane for these near-A-pace folks while it and I got dialed in again.  To complicate things the track had recently been repaved--good news for traction, bad for using old reference points. 

I headed out with the slowest group of riders for a couple of sighting laps before my own session.  My eyes searched for anything to use as turn-in points.  Once in a while a cone would be laid out, a small mark of white paint would be down.  Most of the time I glimpsed a seam in the pavement or a recent skid mark from someone's get-off as a decent marker.  They'd have to do for the time being.  I pulled in after a couple of laps to gather myself and make some mental notes.  Not 60 seconds later the announcement that the B+ group was set to go out.  It was sooner than I was prepared for, but out I went. 

My tires were brand, spanking new.  People flew by me as I scrubbed in my Pirellis bit by bit, leaning over more and more with each corner, and tested my reference points.  It was tough to be patient while the rubber came up to temperature and I tried to nail apex after apex.  All I could do was be smooth, predictable and consistent and even at what seemed like painfully slow speeds it was a struggle.  I came back in and prepared for session 2.  I was feeling better by now.  The butterflies in my stomach had settled down.  My mind had nothing on it but 15 turns. 

I often find that I feel best during the morning sessions and this time was no different.  I was discovering my right wrist and feeling good on the bike.  I dove into corners and gassed it hard coming out.  Once or twice during I'd notice that I'd run a little wide...I'd commit to the turn, lean in a little further past my comfort zone and make it with plenty of track to spare.   

...and then it happened. 

I was rounding the track near the end of my session and hit turn 7 too early--again.  It seemed like I was heading fast towards the curbing as I ran wide, but I didn't flinch, gassed, leaned and went for it.  My mental commitment to making it through the turn didn't do anything and I hit the right curb as I was leaned over to the left.  The impact tipped the bike upright and into the dirt.  I let go of the throttle and didn't touch the brakes, hoping to ride it out for a bit.  I felt the front tire dig into the rocky soil initially, but the bike stayed upright!  I was convinced that I was going to crash, but figured that if I could control the bike for as long as possible I'd get to choose where I fell and at what speed to a certain extent.  My hold on the bars was loose and the bike felt like I was riding a bull instead of a Yamaha as I plowed through the lumpy soil.  It felt like the bike was settling a bit so I gently coaxed it back to the pavement. 

Oh my god...I actually made it!

I stayed way to the outside and slowly got up to speed.  I kicked my left foot out to let anyone behind me know that I was having issues--in case they hadn't seen my little off-track excursion.  I also wanted to get the dirt off of my tires and not drag it onto the race line on the track.  A quick glance back as I got moving revealed that I had clear track.  I went through the next few turns cautiously and decided that I should go back in, check out the bike and just take a breather while I pin pointed exactly what went wrong.  The checkered flag came out just as I'd made that decision, so in I went. 

For the rest of the day went  I made a choice to slow down and get apexes right.  I'm gradually getting a little quicker (not sure because I haven't run a lap timer in several trackdays) but at the sacrifice of accuracy.  As my speed increases my reference points for braking and turn in are changing.  It's hard to keep up with it sometimes as my improvements were coming in 5-10 seconds off my laptimes (back when I was running a timer.) 

I narrowed down my problem turns to 2 or 3 of my worst curves and checked up enough to work on those.  It didn't feel like I sacrificed that much in overall time, but I definitely noticed a confidence and a better drive as a result of hitting the apex correctly.  Towards the end of the day I was getting a lot of corners "right" and getting a much better drive out of them.  I wasn't using up nearly as much track as before.  I was able to use this to my advantage a couple of times as I sharked guys down the track, hung back enough to give myself a running start, waited for just the right moment and then outgunned them on exit.  Passing is half the fun, but one has to do it just right on a little bike. 

By the end of the day I was running mid-pack of my group (I think...) I was passing a lot more people than in the morning.  I still had lots of energy left, both mentally and physically.  I definitely feel like my time on the Trek has been paying off.  I work on turning and breathing on the bicycle and it totally translates to the motorcycle.  The fatigue and pain I used to feel on the moto is nothing compared to what I do to myself on the pedal bike, so perhaps it's all just relative.   [laugh]

I was sad to not be able to stay at least another day.  So much is gained when one can do back-to-back days on the track.  Fortunately Enzo and I have another weekend scheduled out there next month!  I think I'm going to reward myself by renting a laptimer just to see how I'm doing.  I want to check for consistency mostly but, yes, I'm really curious to see how quickly I can get around.  My best time last time I was out was a 2:24 IIRC and I was working rrrrrrreally hard for that.  I was shooting for a 2:15 by the end of the season, but a few things are clicking for me right now and I don't mind sacrificing some seconds.  I'm going to readjust my goal:  I'm hoping to be somewhere in the 2:20-2:25 range, but with more comfort, accuracy, and consistency. 

Thanks again to Tigre and DATV for sharing their knowledge and pit stuff with us once again!  [beer]

And here are some photos since I haven't placed my order yet... 

This one has Enzo following me in the blue and white leathers.

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/etoile_polaire/091408%20Thunderhill/belleinfront.jpg)

The mighty 400...

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/etoile_polaire/091408%20Thunderhill/someturn.jpg)

Some random turn...

(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/etoile_polaire/091408%20Thunderhill/anotherturn.jpg)

I hit a puck once or twice even.   [laugh]  Also dragged toe once.  Enzo and I traded bikes for the last session and he dragged peg.   >:(  They WERE nice n shiny before that!   :P

Nice Photo's

Looks like you guys and gals had a great time  [thumbsup]

the last shiny bit on the 400...  it was fun as hell, tho, once I got used to the little springs.

Awesome writing as usual :)

One thing that helped me on the turn ins was what Michael Earnest was saying, for a very rough personal critic if your not hitting the second half of the curbing you're turning too early and on the exit curbing you're apexing too early. It really helped me get better lines. I was unaware as well that turn 7 is off camber if you get about 6' out from the inside curbing.

Great to hear you saved your off track excursion! I look forward to riding with you guys sometime again in the future! (no more RFR for me :) )

TCK!, I think we're back at T-Hill on October 11th and 12th.  Our last days of the year.

Turn 7 or Turn 8?  Either one is a really bad place to go off, but I'm trying to image running wide in 7.  The dirt is scary, but if you're straight up n' down and don't catch your tire as you come back on, it's often ok.  Going off while still leaning is totally FUBAR.  You got lucky.  I've gone off into the dirt--straight up n' down--at Turn 1 and Turn 8.  I shit a goat.  Good thing ya pulled in right after.  Smart.  And good on ya for staying on the gas.

I've almost run off in 8 because of an early apex.  It can really suck you in early.  That same weekend, I did run off in 8 because I was trying to turn in much later and ended up turning in too late.  Eek!

You're right about passing on the little bikes.  It's really hard to pass someone when you're right on their wheel because you don't have the power.  I like to back off about 2 turns early and get a good run up.  Strangely, the faster sections of the track are better for passing because you get a better ran at them.  On my 250, I used to pass the most people going up the hill into 9.   Weird, I know, but 6, 7 and 8 is a good run-up.  

P.S.  The title sounds like porno.  Got video?   [evil]

AWESOME! I'm all set for the 12th but on the waiting list for the 11th... see you guys there!

It was T7 that I went wide.  I got really lucky... It's not really much of a turn, but I managed to mess it up and was doing a good clip (for me) when it happened.  Had I gone off in 8 you'd be paying me a visit in the hospital probably.  That turn scares me because of the speed and I'm learning to take it a little quicker every time I'm out--but it's still very slow compared to most people probably.  Oddly enough some guy railed off into the dirt a couple of sessions later in 7.  I saw it happen in front of me a few hundred yards up.  He wasn't as good a rider as I  [cheeky] and he wound up picking himself and his bike up outta the weeds. 

I pass most people that I pass on the brakes going into 10.  I can sometimes pass between 10 and 11 if conditions are perfect.  I often get close to passing in 9 but the crest of the hill scares me and I usually chicken out there and just wait for 10. 

Congrats on a couple of good track days and on keeping it upright in the dirt! [thumbsup]

Looking good too. :)

 [thumbsup] [thumbsup] [clap]

It's always a good feeling when you can save a potential get-off. I was trying to pass some guy between 2 & 3 and overshot the corner. Somehow I managed to do a little loop out in the dirt and come back upright. I think I felt better about that than my lap times.  ;)

I hear ya... I felt like quite the little ninja afterwards.   [laugh] 

Cool.  It'll be fun to ride with you.  It's been a while, man!

I think I have a spot on the 11th in B+ if you want it.

You aren't going to make it?

How would that work? I've already paid in full but there are others in front of me. Would I cancel my order and buy yours?

I'm sure I'll get in either way, would be nice to have all the old school mobsters there to ride with if you can make it though.

I'm not going to make it.  If you've paid in full, I can just email Keigwins and tell them you're taking my spot.  No money transfer needed as you'd end up paying them--not me--anyway. 

Okay sounds good just let me know if there is any thing I need to do to make this happen, its much-o appreciated

nice! Ahh it's great seeing the G's on you guys in the turns. Too cool.

Yeah, it was a fun day.  Photos are great for seeing how your body position is.  Mine's improving a tiny bit--I'm not embarrassed by it too much.  I'd love to have someone follow me with a camera because but I'm too cheap.   [cheeky] 

Your body position is pretty damn good.  It's better than Enzo though his is not nearly as bad as he thinks it is.  That 400 looks like it has you pretty stretched out.  I remember climbing onto that bike and thinking that it had a pretty long reach for such a small bike.  I wonder what you'd feel like on a 'modern' bike with different ergos.

I was talking with Enzo last night and looking at pics.  We were trying to work through one of the issues with his body position.  Specifically, we were talking about how he sets up entering turns.  It sounds and looks like he sets up for a turn by trying to hang his butt of the seat as far as possible rather than leading with his head, locking into with his inner thigh/groing and getting his whole body off.  That's an easy correction--it may only take a coupla sessions to work through most of that habit. 

The 400 is sort of weird.  I am stretched out on it and it limits my ability to hang off to the degree that I'd like to.  On the other hand, it keeps me "honest."  I *have* to lead with my head because I can't get my butt off the seat very well.  Enzo noticed that about it too.  I talked to Mike "Slow-meyer" about the 400 and he said that he never knew why they make a little bike so long--he made some sort of joke about the tank being long enough to serve breakfast on it...guess you had to be there.   [laugh] 

Enzo and I traded bikes at the end of the day.  When I rode his R6 the body position felt 10X more natural than on the 400.  It had that "crouchy feeling" that I like.  I wasn't comfortable at all with the power of it, however,  and felt like it was a lot twitchier than my bike.  I actually got the front end to lighten up coming over turn 9 and again when I came onto the front straight and that made me nervous because I was only doing 130 on the front straight and I've heard that those bikes can do a lot more than that.  :o  The sad thing was that I was waaaaaay slower on his bike than on my own--it was only on the straights that I got a tiny bit brave.  That was plenty for me--nearly needed a change of Hanes afterwards.  I pulled in after that deciding that highsiding or doing something equally acrobatic would be a bad idea.   :P 

Belle, next time we're at the track together, you should try my bike.  You will get that crouching feeling and the throttle is smooth.  It's also set up for our weight.

The set up technique (butt off the seat before entering the turn) is something I learned either from Keigwins, ZZ or both.  Everyone says get ready early, which is what I'm trying to do.  I think I'm finally getting the whole "lock the outside leg" concept, whcih I hope will keep me from crossing up in turns.  Plus, I put on Stomp Grip last night, which I expect to help a lot.  I bet if I feel like I'm leading with my head, then I'll actually be properly aligned in turns.

Being a bit streched out on the 400 felt great.  I know the Duc SBK's have you stretched out as well. I wonder if the feeling is similar.  I rode Tigre's 749 once, but I was more concerned about not fuggin up than being aggressive in turns.

Approaching 9:

(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/enzo76/Entering9.jpg)

Through 9  crossed up:

(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/enzo76/Thru9.jpg)

Some great writing there 'Belle!  [thumbsup]

Ever consider scriptwriting?   ;D

Looked like a good time!   [moto]

You betchya!   [thumbsup]  When are you coming back out btw? 


Thanks, man!  Had a great time.  Can't wait for next month.   :)

Is that an RD 400?

I ran off on Turn 5 last time then later in the day at Turn 3. I just ended up wide, so I stood it up & ran into the infield.

Great report, loved reading it! It was good to see you and enzo at the tracks. I  had trouble with the markers or lack of them, the first day but it got better the next two days. Great help from Steve and Adrian, I did get to learn a lot. I am still trying to figure out all about trail-braking... well I have I would say good experience of trail braking in oh-shit moments, but I need to learn how to do it on purpose :)

did some dirt riding going into T2, I was trying to shift and it caught a much lower gear, locking the rear tire and I assume a highsider (?)... but managed to stay on the bike and finally ride it out.. the good part ?  i have it on camera :D

You can hear gear shift at 31s,  tires sliding at 32s and then bike wobbling out of control..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCafyXxzUwA

That's turn 11.  And yes, you're curling your head back up into the bike.  Not the worst thing I've ever seen...  try looking through the turn a bit more, perhaps?

Ahhh so this is turn 11... I kept looking at my own pictures trying to think of what turn is banked with a tree in the distance....

*Side Note*

I'm 100% set up for October 11th and 12th!

I'm just going to put this out there.  It is almost never the right thing to do to stand it up and run off track.  90% of the time you can make the turn just by bending it in there.  Running off has to be a last resort - better to lowside trying to make it.  When you run off the track you don't know whats out there - could be a big ditch.  Not to freak anyone out, but at the beginning of last year someone died at THill from running off in turn 1, hitting a ditch and landing really wrong.  Our own Furious George also had a really bad crash as the result of running off at Turn 6.  Anyway, please be careful!!

In my case I wasn't as afraid of lowsiding as I was of running off the track, so I tried to stick with the lean.  Unfortunately I ran outta pavement.  Even then I made the decision to try to ride it out as long as I could and attempt to point the bike sort of where I wanted it--you always hear that but I personally haven't ever found myself in that kind of situation before.  Whenever I've messed up on the bike prior to this I was usually on the ground before I knew it.  Making a conscious choice to stay with the bike as long as possible and control what I could made the whole thing seem a lot less scary.  That little episode actually gave me a lot more confidence, strange as it sounds.  I thought for sure that I was going to eat dirt and I really, really didn't want to ruin my day in only the second session.  [laugh]  That's seriously what was going through my mind.  Had I ran off later in the day I don't think that I would have tried as hard to save it.   [cheeky]  I learned a really important lesson that even when things look very, very bad that you shouldn't give up!  I'm glad I got to learn that one at the track...  [thumbsup]

Whoops, of course that's 11!