Once upon a time, in a place overrun with monkeys, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest, and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and as supply started to diminish, they became harder to catch, so the villagers stopped their effort. The man then announced that he would now pay $20 for each one. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. But soon the supply diminished even further and they were ever harder to catch, so people started going back to their farms and forgot about monkey catching. The man increased his price to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so sparse that it was an effort to even see a monkey, much less catch one. The man now announced that he would buy monkeys for $50! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on his behalf.
While the man was away the assistant told the villagers, "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has bought. I will sell them to you at $35 each and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each." The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys. They never saw the man nor his assistant again, and once again there were monkeys everywhere.
Now you have a better understanding of how the stock market works.
poly tics is that way ^
I think this is more along the lines of "Bidness" and I like the example.
But I thought the monkeys were the ones with the money?
mitt
Sorry. I didn't think this was political. Just funny. I'll be more careful whar I puts my posts.
Quote from: alfisti on October 06, 2008, 02:14:06 PM
Sorry. I didn't think this was political. Just funny. I'll be more careful whar I puts my posts.
I don't think it is political either - no worries here!
mitt
[clap]
did the monkey's have knives?
Quote from: MrFry on October 07, 2008, 12:13:12 PM
did the monkey's have knives?
Buyer beware. I dont think it is political. Just the way things work.
HAHA, Stupid villagers!
They should have bargained the buyback down to $25 a monkey!
Er....
[roll]
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 12:16:49 PM
Buyer beware. I dont think it is political. Just the way things work.
Just the way things work? Meaning that story is an accurate depiction of how the stock market works?
Quote from: DucPete on October 07, 2008, 12:23:17 PM
[roll]
Just the way things work? Meaning that story is an accurate depiction of how the stock market works?
Yeah because i do not think that the prices of stocks really reflect their true value (as I would assume they are over valued). People game the system. Like the buyer gamed the villagers.
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 12:29:53 PM
Yeah because i do not think that the prices of stocks really reflect their true value (as I would assume they are over valued). People game the system. Like the buyer gamed the villagers.
Stocks aren't SUPPOSED to reflect their true value. It's what their value WILL BE. The whole thing is essentially gambling. And if you get into the market expecting to make a bundle and end up losing money it's your fault for placing a bet that didn't win. You are by NO means guaranteed a positive return. You have to weight the return against the risk. And there is always risk.
The only part of that story I see reflecting reality is the supply demand piece.
Quote from: DucPete on October 07, 2008, 12:40:34 PM
Stocks aren't SUPPOSED to reflect their true value. It's what their value WILL BE. The whole thing is essentially gambling. And if you get into the market expecting to make a bundle and end up losing money it's your fault for placing a bet that didn't win. You are by NO means guaranteed a positive return. You have to weight the return against the risk. And there is always risk.
The only part of that story I see reflecting reality is the supply demand piece.
how does what you write have any relevance to the Monkey analogy? It neither confirms or denies what has been stated
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 12:50:13 PM
how does what you write have any relevance to the Monkey analogy? It neither confirms or denies what has been stated
[roll] It was in response to what you said about people gaming the system. Which you said, was reflected in the monkey analogy. I'm disagreeing with what you said and that comparison to the stock market.
And I said, the part about supply/demand in that story is very reflective of the econ concept.
.....Ok, let me be clearer for you. The idea that the villagers are investors in the market isn't very good. Unless it's to show how there are some people who blindly invest in the market expecting a return just because. An informed investor should do the research to know what exactly they are putting their money into. The stock market is not a system that is "gamed". Generally speaking, just because someone loses money when they expected to win doesn't make the system unfair. There are rules in place that are supposed to prevent abuse from happening. If you have a beef, take it up with the SEC, NOT the stock market in general. There are always going to be thieves and crooks. That does not make the system corrupt or broken.
Quote from: DucPete on October 07, 2008, 12:55:16 PM
[roll] It was in response to what you said about people gaming the system. Which you said, was reflected in the monkey analogy. I'm disagreeing with what you said and that comparison to the stock market.
And I said, the part about supply/demand in that story is very reflective of the econ concept.
And so CEO's dont do accounting tricks to inflate the value? Not the value/price on what it should be. The here and now how they can "game" to system so that stocks are posted at a manipulated value. They cant do that forever of course. What goes up must come down (unless it is real, true growth). My opinion, stocks have come to a state where they need to be reset. It is all about gaming the system now.
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 01:06:34 PM
And so CEO's dont do accounting tricks to inflate the value? Not the value/price on what it should be. The here and now how they can "game" to system so that stocks are posted at a manipulated value. They cant do that forever of course. What goes up must come down (unless it is real, true growth). My opinion, stocks have come to a state where they need to be reset. It is all about gaming the system now.
reset? reset to what? This is ludicrous. It's not gaming the system. The system isn't perfect and we are constantly making changes to how it is governed. Like book keeping.
As I said before it's not about what the company is worth now, but what people think it will be worth tomorrow.
I'm not so sure you really understand how the stock market works.
... you understand that the stock market =! the economy. Right?
Quote from: DucPete on October 07, 2008, 12:55:16 PM
.....Ok, let me be clearer for you. The idea that the villagers are investors in the market isn't very good. Unless it's to show how there are some people who blindly invest in the market expecting a return just because. An informed investor should do the research to know what exactly they are putting their money into. The stock market is not a system that is "gamed". Generally speaking, just because someone loses money when they expected to win doesn't make the system unfair. There are rules in place that are supposed to prevent abuse from happening. If you have a beef, take it up with the SEC, NOT the stock market in general. There are always going to be thieves and crooks. That does not make the system corrupt or broken.
The system is corrupt and it is broken.
The system is being gamed. The fed "games" the economy. And im not talking about poor joe schmoe who expected to win but lost. Im talking about people on the inside who know what is up. People are not honest. People are corrupt.
I make these blanket statements because they reflect how i view the world. I dont expect you to understand them the way I see it because we have not had the time to personally know each other to know where we come from so that we can not fully or comfortable accept what we say to each other at full face value.
One statement I will say about myself that may help you understand where I am coming from
I like to see the glass as half full but that does not mean that I am foolish enough to not see the glass half empty.
Quote from: DucPete on October 07, 2008, 01:11:18 PM
reset? reset to what? This is ludicrous. It's not gaming the system. The system isn't perfect and we are constantly making changes to how it is governed. Like book keeping.
As I said before it's not about what the company is worth now, but what people think it will be worth tomorrow.
I'm not so sure you really understand how the stock market works.
... you understand that the stock market =! the economy. Right?
Business cycle. Sometimes, the system has to crash. Rather we like it or not.
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 01:06:34 PM
And so CEO's dont do accounting tricks to inflate the value? Not the value/price on what it should be. The here and now how they can "game" to system so that stocks are posted at a manipulated value. They cant do that forever of course. What goes up must come down (unless it is real, true growth). My opinion, stocks have come to a state where they need to be reset. It is all about gaming the system now.
psst.... I have a secret to tell you. There are crooks everywhere.
QuoteMy opinion, stocks have come to a state where they need to be reset.
Umm.... what? [roll]
Quote
I'm not so sure you really understand how the stock market works.
this sums it up.
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 01:14:50 PM
Business cycle. Sometimes, the system has to crash. Rather we like it or not.
Here is the problem, the little guy loses. Most of the rich have them money to ride it out. But the little guy who's entire 401k, savings, and income will not, in the event of a Major crash. They missed the window for that when they saved Fannie and Freddie.
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 01:14:09 PM
The system is corrupt and it is broken.
The system is being gamed. The fed "games" the economy. And im not talking about poor joe schmoe who expected to win but lost. Im talking about people on the inside who know what is up. People are not honest. People are corrupt.
I make these blanket statements because they reflect how i view the world. I dont expect you to understand them the way I see it because we have not had the time to personally know each other to know where we come from so that we can not fully or comfortable accept what we say to each other at full face value.
I understand WHY you say these things. But I also can see that you clearly don't have the experience to understand what is going on. I personally can't even think about trading stock until it's approved by the company I work with and an additional source. The SEC would be down my throat or someone close to me if I were to do that. They don't mess around with this kind of thing.
I understand you are frustrated at the corruption, but what you're saying is coming across as being super uninformed.
Quote from: TiAvenger on October 07, 2008, 01:18:15 PM
Here is the problem, the little guy loses. Most of the rich have them money to ride it out. But the little guy who's entire 401k, savings, and income will not, in the event of a Major crash. They missed the window for that when they saved Fannie and Freddie.
Chaos. what you just wrote have a connotation that you believe that the little guy has no power to do anything. When you and I are pacified enough to not take action, then rich do have what it takes to ride it out. When everything goes to hell in a hand basket, people take action. King lious got his head cut off durring times of economic unrest. Though I wouldnt say France would be the best example for me to put out there.
Stocks are not every part of our economy. I dont know exactly how "big" but it is not the majority.
Quote from: OwnyTony on October 07, 2008, 01:27:38 PM
Chaos. what you just wrote have a connotation that you believe that the little guy has no power to do anything. When you and I are pacified enough to not take action, then rich do have what it takes to ride it out. When everything goes to hell in a hand basket, people take action. King lious got his head cut off durring times of economic unrest. Though I wouldnt say France would be the best example for me to put out there.
Stocks are not every part of our economy. I dont know exactly how "big" but it is not the majority.
Those of us that would take action, have already foreseen this, and should not be affected. I think you overestimate a good portion of the American sheeple. A good lot would simply sit there with their hand out waiting for the government to save them.
IT IS A JOKE PEOPLE! If you want to talk politics, go to the right forum.
Jeez, buzz kills.
mitt
Can't say I didn't warn ya [cheeky]
Quote from: DucPete on October 07, 2008, 12:23:17 PM
[roll]
Just the way things work? Meaning that story is an accurate depiction of how the stock market works?
it actually made me think of the real estate market :P
Quote from: mitt on October 07, 2008, 01:48:55 PM
IT IS A JOKE PEOPLE! If you want to talk politics, go to the right forum.
Jeez, buzz kills.
mitt
Ruin a perfectly good joke thread...grumble....grumble....