I'm losing a fair bit of oil. It seems to be pooling around the rear of the vertical cylinder, and also in the spark plug hole of the vertical cylinder.
- I did a valve adjustment about a year ago and didn't replace the gaskets. Is it possible that the oil is leaking from the vertical valve covers?
- There is oil around the camshaft cover too, but it doesn't seem like enough to be pooling, but it must be coming from there somewhere.
- There was evidence of oil dripping from the fins and landing on the back of the crankcase, then running down.
- My other options are the base gaskets and the original crankcase breather.
Does anyone have any ideas? I've tried sealing up the breather, and removing, cleaning and replacing the old camshaft cover gasket.
i had that on both cylinders just like you described. after i replaced the valve guides, it went away. most of it came from the exaust vale cover and left cam cover.
Which year and model of Monster do you have, and how many miles on it?
Oil pooling around the spark plug:
Likely the cam cover on that side.
Possible that it's the intake valve cover.
Could also be where the oil gallery is plugged with the screw, slightly above and rearward of the spark plug.
Oil dripping from the fins:
Could be from the above listed items, additionally the exhaust valve cover.
It could be a base gasket leak, but evidence of oil higher on the cylinder makes that less likely.
Crankcase breathers just seem to ooze a bit, forming a film of oil on the surrounding area.
Possible that it's the O-rings at the head-cylinder interface, but same deal as the base gasket, not so likely if there's oil higher on the cylinder.
Best approach is to clean and dry everything as best you can, and then ride and inspect frequently to see where the oil is coming from.
You can use spray-on foot powder to get a better idea of where it's coming from.
The stamped steel valve and cam cover gaskets are tolerant of re-use.
The fiber gaskets, not so much.
It's a 94 M900 with ?84000km on the clock.
Thanks for your help, I'll clean it up and start with replacing the camshaft cover gasket, it was in poor condition.
Replace the valve cover gaskets - they're dirt cheap and useless when you re-use them
Quote from: Speeddog on October 11, 2008, 08:03:46 AM
Crankcase breathers just seem to ooze a bit, forming a film of oil on the surrounding area.
I had one split where the top spout bit is joined to the lower body bit - it was all still held roughly in place by the hose, but it was leaking enough oil to run across behind the vertical cylinder and leak down past the front sprocket and make puddles on the ground. (I've got a spare output shaft seal from a hasty assumption when that happened...)
big
Hi Big..
I presume you had to replace the part.. seams a faulty design. exact same thing happened on my bike yesterday. the crankcase breather that screws into the top of the crankcase was split across from front to back. Oil everywhere. It has been leaking for months. I thought it was leaking where the hose connected. the area is a mess because of that. Did you go for the air filter that does away with the reservoir under the seat etc.?
cheers
mic
I have a similar leak and think it is from the left cam cover gasket. Very slow leak.
I have a leak exactly like what the op described but it really looks like a head gasket problem. Ive already replaced the valve cover gaskets.
Quote from: Ducaholic on December 12, 2009, 05:27:17 AM
I have a leak exactly like what the op described but it really looks like a head gasket problem. Ive already replaced the valve cover gaskets.
What year and model?
Quote from: Speeddog on December 12, 2009, 06:42:46 AM
What year and model?
Oh my bad, wasn't trying to threadjack. Its a 97 M900
Threadjack away! It all helps! I replaced all the gaskets except the head gasket and it still leaks, just not as bad. There's a little allen head bolt in the head that it looks like it's leaking from. Could it be that?
M900 has no head gasket.
There are a few o-rings in there that's all.
Engine removal required?
Quote from: Ducaholic on December 13, 2009, 02:59:44 PM
Engine removal required?
Not on a monster. ;)
I guess you have to rotate the motor on an SS
I guess my frame will have to wait for powdercoat then. [evil]
Quote from: ducpainter on December 12, 2009, 01:44:08 PM
M900 has no head gasket.
There are a few o-rings in there that's all.
So is there anything fancy abouts these o-rings? I'm not a big fan of my local dealership and prefer to stay away. I have tons of assorted o-rings at work that I assume would do the job. If I go this far with it though I may just yank off the other head and clean up the ports while I'm at it.
Quote from: Ducaholic on January 25, 2010, 05:38:34 PM
So is there anything fancy abouts these o-rings? I'm not a big fan of my local dealership and prefer to stay away. I have tons of assorted o-rings at work that I assume would do the job. If I go this far with it though I may just yank off the other head and clean up the ports while I'm at it.
DO NOT TAKE JUST MY ADVICE
I checked my valves this weekend for the first time and replaced the o-rings on mine. I didn't notice anything too special about these, but I imagine that they are special, high-temp o-rings. They are also hell-of tight putting the covers back on, so I imagine you would need ones really close to the original size. They seem to be a little loose going on and off, so there is room for some slop on size. All that said, do you really want an o-ring failure when you don't have to replace them all that often?
If you don't like your dealership, support one of the forum sponsors like Ducati Seattle, I am sure they would mail some to you.
I was talking about the o-rings between the cylinder and head.
For the cost of the O-rings vs. the PITA if a substitute one leaks, not worth it IMO.
Caveat...*you* work on a lot of very nice air-cooled motors, so likely your O-rings are top quality.
That's exactly what I was getting at. I have bunches of top quality stuff at the shop. If its just a regular o ring than I probably have several.
I'm not sure if they're 'special' or not.
I seem to recall them being green...but my memory isn't like derbys. ;)
Quote from: ducpainter on January 26, 2010, 02:58:20 AM
I'm not sure if they're 'special' or not.
I seem to recall them being green...but my memory isn't like derbys. ;)
That's all I need bud [thumbsup] Its gonna be shitty weather next week, maybe ill have a go at it.
Quote from: Ducaholic on January 25, 2010, 06:06:42 PM
I was talking about the o-rings between the cylinder and head.
[bang] [bang] [bang]
I don't know why I bothered chipping in on one of your questions given the differences in our experience working on things mechanical.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 26, 2010, 02:58:20 AM
I seem to recall them being green...but my memory isn't like derbys. ;)
I (now) know you are talking about different o-rings, but the green ones for my valve covers were replaced with black ones from the dealer. If the green signified anything, that may be something that changed recently.
Hey no worries at all bud [thumbsup]
Quote from: yotogi on January 26, 2010, 05:45:06 AM
[bang] [bang] [bang]
I don't know why I bothered chipping in on one of your questions given the differences in our experience working on things mechanical.
I (now) know you are talking about different o-rings, but the green ones for my valve covers were replaced with black ones from the dealer. If the green signified anything, that may be something that changed recently.
Which makes me think even more they're not 'special'.
I just mentioned the color because a guy that works with the stuff everyday might get a clue about the material required based on the description.
Since its just an oil passage it shouldn't be a problem. I just didn't want to pull the head and find some fancy armunulum crush washers or square orings. Just have to figger out a nut removing device.
Standard box wrench with a little judicious grinding will let you get the head nuts off.
This will let you put 'em back on:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/2782054367_e55bbcf36e_o.jpg)
That's what I was envisioning, problem is I don't own any cheap wrenches that I'm willing to butcher. [laugh] [bang]
Quote from: Ducaholic on January 27, 2010, 03:10:46 AM
That's what I was envisioning, problem is I don't own any cheap wrenches that I'm willing to butcher. [laugh] [bang]
I'll sell you one for big bucks. [evil]
Quote from: ducpainter on January 27, 2010, 03:38:08 AM
I'll sell you one for big bucks. [evil]
I bet you would ;D
Quote from: Ducaholic on January 27, 2010, 03:10:46 AM
That's what I was envisioning, problem is I don't own any cheap wrenches that I'm willing to butcher. [laugh] [bang]
You Porsche Techs are all alike. [roll]
[laugh]
If it'll make you feel better, you can get the OEM tool for ~ $340.
It's very nice.
Google [drink]
Green = Viton- FKM or Fluorel or Technoflon- Expensive material that is very dense, excellent in vacuum, good acid resistance, oil resistance. Not good at low temp 0° but good to 450°F, There are a range now of specialty Vitons to address Niche applications where the standard viton is not recommended, but they are expensive. Hardness 55 thru 90.
Black (usually) = Buna-N. Also known as Nitrile,Hycar,Paracril, NBR. This is the most commonly used and because production runs are the largest, it is the least expensive, as an o-ring. It is a co-polymer of Butadiene and Acylonitrile. The butadiene is a rubber and provides the physical properties, the acrylonitrile is a plastic and provides the chemical resistance. There are hundreds of compounds available where you vary the ratio of each and effect the desired combination of properties. It is basically used to seal petroleum based fluids from -50°F thru +275°F. Hardness range of 40 thru 95A
Temperature could be a problem.
Quote from: 64duc on January 27, 2010, 10:30:25 AM
Google [drink]
..snip..
Temperature could be a problem.
Thanks for doing the legwork! I would have to wonder if the o-rings that I purchased from Ducati for the valve covers on an S2R are rated for only 275 degrees. That seems like a attainable number on a hot day in the summer with an air-cooled engine. Does anyone know if/why Ducati would switch other than to have a better margin?
Quote from: Speeddog on January 27, 2010, 06:33:54 AM
You Porsche Techs are all alike. [roll]
[laugh]
If it'll make you feel better, you can get the OEM tool for ~ $340.
It's very nice.
My wrench drawer.
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll161/porschaholic/2010-01-27152952.jpg)
If you think Ducati oem tools are overpriced you should see what Porsche charges. $13,000 tester, $3000 torque wrench ect.. Glad the dealership gets to pay the tab on those.
Well took it all apart last night. The two oil drainback o-rings are black and the pressure side is green. The previous owner had the "best Ducati tech in the whole world" put high comps in. I was planning on cleaning up the ports but looks like that was done already too and done well. [thumbsup]
Gonna get the valves and seats cut while you've got the heads off?
Quote from: Speeddog on January 28, 2010, 07:50:05 AM
Gonna get the valves and seats cut while you've got the heads off?
I was just gonna replace the o rings under the head. I only took off the vertical one. I guess I could have done a leakdown test before I started but it really runs pretty good. The bore is flawless. I wasn't too concerned with the valves but I guess if it becomes an issue its not difficult to pull em off again.
Just a precaution. Check your cylinder head studs.
Was your bike fitted with heavy duty or upgraded engine studs when the previous owner fitted hi comp pistons?
If the studs are a nice shiny stainless colour then they are most likely the original, prone to fracture studs that stretch then break with hi comp pistons. The increased compression stretched the studs on my bike ('95 M900) which caused oil leaks in the same area before the breakages began.
Nichols heavy duty engine studs or late model Ducati (D76610012B) studs should have been fitted. They are dark coloured hi-tensile pieces. I imagine a few companies have equivalent products in the US.
The engine studs are probably fine.
This is a 'just in case' post, so you dont have to go through my experience. My stud extraction experience was worse than tooth extraction..
Hey thanks for the tip Koko. The studs are definitely not stainless and appear to be the upgraded ones.
Quote from: Ducaholic on January 28, 2010, 04:38:35 PM
Hey thanks for the tip Koko. The studs are definitely not stainless and appear to be the upgraded ones.
Great to hear.
Cheers.
Was looking at the bike this weekend and I am now pretty sure that my small leak is from the vertical left rear cylinder head stud on my bike.
Damn... I was really hoping it was the cam cover o-ring I replaced a few weeks back...