Hey all,
In your opinion, is there any benifit to using fuel without ethanol? Are there any companies currently offering it other than BP?
I've heard that it's harsh on certain engines. Some people say all of them...
My Audi seems to run fine on it, but then again I've never gotten to use non-ethanol fuel to compare.
I'd like to hear more from people with plenty of experience with both.
Also, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO GET IT!
Quote from: Monstermash on October 11, 2008, 04:47:02 PM
Hey all,
In your opinion, is there any benifit to using fuel without ethanol? Are there any companies currently offering it other than BP?
Only on boats. It should not matter to your moto.
you will notice a difference if you have a well-tuned engine.
my 900ss engine was balanced and blueprinted -- very noticeable difference when i put in 100% gas.
gasoline has more energy than ethanol, so more hp. period. there really is no comparison.
plus, you'll get better mileage.
not to say you won't notice it in a factory engine, but it will be less of a difference. but your engine will be much happier.
using ethanol (E10) gas is marginally better IMHO than using W10 (adding water). ethanol is shit. pure and simple.
the difference between ethanol and gas is about the same as between gas and diesel. that's why you can't burn 100% ethanol in a gas car. you can add diesel to your gas tank too, it will combust in small percentages, say 2-5%, but it sure as hell isn't good for your engine.
^^^^^^^^^^^ +1
I have a mildly tuned engine. DP ECU and DP cams. I would be interested in trying ethanol free fuel. If i could find it......
A local exxon station near my home sells ethanol free fuel. I personally don't want to burn something that could be used to FEED people as my fuel. Pure gas for me baby.
In your neck of the woods you pretty much have a choice between E10, E10, or if you don't like that, you can get E10 since it is mandated in your area. Your only alternative is race gas (illegal for street use in your area, but I won't tell). Use caution with race gas, some are highly oxygenated with highly corrosive materials. Sunoco does sell race fuel that is engine friendly. The Sunoco 260GT 100 is what you are looking for. Don't worry about the high octane. The carbon build up you hear about is an E10 problem. Anyhow, read up here:
http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/ (http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/)
Find the go juice here:
http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/260GT100Locations/ (http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/260GT100Locations/)
Are you referring to My neck of the woods?
There is one station here in town that sells ethanol free gas. But they charge .10 more for it so the added efficiency probably doesn't matter.
Quote from: vwboomer on October 12, 2008, 09:03:46 AM
There is one station here in town that sells ethanol free gas. But they charge .10 more for it so the added efficiency probably doesn't matter.
it's not just efficiency, it is the added power to the engine and reduced wear. Ethanol has about 3x the solvent properties of gasoline and does not lubricate like gasoline does. Is 10 cents/gallon worth the reduced power, reduced mpg and additional engine wear? -- that's what you should be asking.
You are more likely to find ethanol free gasoline at stations near recreational lakes and reservoirs.
I'm going to try some Sunoco 260 GT100 in my 1098 R and see if I notice a difference. Dolph
Quote from: ducatizzzz on October 12, 2008, 12:16:57 PM
it's not just efficiency, it is the added power to the engine and reduced wear. Ethanol has about 3x the solvent properties of gasoline and does not lubricate like gasoline does. Is 10 cents/gallon worth the reduced power, reduced mpg and additional engine wear? -- that's what you should be asking.
I've been running the 90/10 mix for years. In my Passat, which I supercharged, I could tell the difference, but only in mileage - and not really that much.
As for wear and tear, I can't really speak to that. Never lost an engine and we've been running this for many years around here. I doubt I could tell the difference on the bikes either unless it was dyno'd back to back.
So yeah, .10 a gallon is a fair savings to me.
I don't think I have filled up at a station in years that didn't oxygenate the fuel..
Quote from: NAKID on October 12, 2008, 07:22:11 PM
I don't think I have filled up at a station in years that didn't oxygenate the fuel..
How can you tell your fuel is Oxygenated ? Is it the fact that it doesn't say E10 ? Dolph
Quote from: DoubleEagle on October 12, 2008, 08:02:26 PM
How can you tell your fuel is Oxygenated ? Is it the fact that it doesn't say E10 ? Dolph
ethanol is what is used to oxygenate gasoline.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_disadvantages.html
ethanol, like all alcohols, absorbs moisture.
moisture + engine = not good.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on October 12, 2008, 08:12:44 PM
ethanol is what is used to oxygenate gasoline.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_disadvantages.html (http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_disadvantages.html)
ethanol, like all alcohols, absorbs moisture.
moisture + engine = not good.
yeah but if you put alcohol on your rubber it will suck up the moisture in them, deteriorating them right? so your fuel lines are in danger with E10.
Quote from: Raux on October 12, 2008, 09:31:06 PM
yeah but if you put alcohol on your rubber it will suck up the moisture in them, deteriorating them right? so your fuel lines are in danger with E10.
that is a problem with an older vehicle, but newer vehicles use Nitrile and EPDM for fuel lines which is impervious to ethanol.
the main issue with moisture and ethanol is how it wicks moisture from the air so you are always adding water to your gas tank when filling up with E10 -- how much is debatable. if you live in a low-humidity environment or during winter, it is probably negligible, but if you live in high humidity and during summer, better use that gas fast.
you can add things like StaBil to offset some of the separation problems, but it is just an inherent problem with alcohol in gasoline.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on October 12, 2008, 09:39:28 PM
that is a problem with an older vehicle, but newer vehicles use Nitrile and EPDM for fuel lines which is impervious to ethanol.
the main issue with moisture and ethanol is how it wicks moisture from the air so you are always adding water to your gas tank when filling up with E10 -- how much is debatable. if you live in a low-humidity environment or during winter, it is probably negligible, but if you live in high humidity and during summer, better use that gas fast.
you can add things like StaBil to offset some of the separation problems, but it is just an inherent problem with alcohol in gasoline.
i guess that's why they say that ethanol is bad for any vehicle/engine that isn't used regularly. ie your mower or your bike that isn't used daily.
They mandated labeling pumps here in Oklahoma in July. Before then I was using E10 without knowing it. Before the labeling, E10 and regular gas were the same price... now regular stations are about 10 cents a gallon more. hmmmm So anyways I've been using this luxury of knowing wtf I'm putting in my tank - I can tell a difference with my bikes and a big difference with my 2T lawnmower. My truck ... well I can't tell any difference including mileage. It kind of looks like the smaller the motor, the bigger the difference. A friend's MV was running hot - Ferracci told him to run 100% gas, that ethanol made it run lean and hot - so he switched and now the bike runs cooler and he gets better mileage too. BTW regular e10 is $2.49/gal here in OKC today.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on October 11, 2008, 06:04:47 PM
you will notice a difference if you have a well-tuned engine.
my 900ss engine was balanced and blueprinted -- very noticeable difference when i put in 100% gas.
gasoline has more energy than ethanol, so more hp. period. there really is no comparison.
plus, you'll get better mileage.
I'll definitely second that last line. I typically loose 4-5mpg in my car over a tank with the commonly available ethenol blend. I don't think anything I have is tuned enough to *really* notice the performance aspect. Now my fiancée has a Flex-Fuel GM vehicle, and get 26-28mpg on the 10% blend ~
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on October 13, 2008, 05:50:03 AM
I'll definitely second that last line. I typically loose 4-5mpg in my car over a tank with the commonly available ethenol blend. I don't think anything I have is tuned enough to *really* notice the performance aspect. Now my fiancée has a Flex-Fuel GM vehicle, and get 26-28mpg on the 10% blend ~
JM
The FlexFuel vehicles are a shame. They reportedly get about 10-15% worse mileage with E85 vs E10.
Quote from: Bill in OKC on October 12, 2008, 10:43:07 PM
They mandated labeling pumps here in Oklahoma in July. Before then I was using E10 without knowing it. Before the labeling, E10 and regular gas were the same price... now regular stations are about 10 cents a gallon more. hmmmm So anyways I've been using this luxury of knowing wtf I'm putting in my tank - I can tell a difference with my bikes and a big difference with my 2T lawnmower. My truck ... well I can't tell any difference including mileage. It kind of looks like the smaller the motor, the bigger the difference. A friend's MV was running hot - Ferracci told him to run 100% gas, that ethanol made it run lean and hot - so he switched and now the bike runs cooler and he gets better mileage too. BTW regular e10 is $2.49/gal here in OKC today.
Stripes are usually 100% gas
Quote from: ducatizzzz on October 13, 2008, 05:51:03 AM
The FlexFuel vehicles are a shame. They reportedly get about 10-15% worse mileage with E85 vs E10.
Yea, but the make the E85 per gallon mileage decent, it pushed the per gallon mileage way up on straight up 87. Mixed drive on a '08 Impala w/ a 3.5L V6 on pure 87 unleaded is 27-28. Highway is above 30. Good for a larger heavy sedan ~
JM
Has anyone rejetted a carb to run on alcohol? For the engine to run right jetting needs to be almost doubled. That's why an engine will run hot/lean/get worse milage with alcohol in the fuel. Almost twice as much is needed for a proper burn compared to petrol. E85 still has 15% petrol or else the milage would be completely in the basement.