Ducati Monster Forum

I've looked over many of the HID threads but I'm not clear on whether one can install a HID lamp in the stock bucket (or one about like it) and still have hi and lo beams.  Certainly this can be done.

Additionally, is it possible to fit HID lo and hi beams?  If not, it seems like the hi beam would be the most important to have in HID.

My ride is a 2008 S2R.

The easiest HID to install in a stock bucket are the kits that use HID low beam, and halogen high beam.  They fit without modification.  The high beam is worthless (though legal, if you live someplace that inspects such things) but you won't miss it because the HID low beam is so good.  This is the route I took.

There also exist "bi-zenon" kits that have a moving shield which employs a single HID bulb for both high and low beam duty.  Unfortunately, the motor assembly required to achieve this is fairly large.  Thus, you to need to modify the bucket to make it fit.  It can be done, though.  These give good high beam, but if the HID bulb goes out, you are completely light-less.

An HID light stuffed into a housing that was designed for a halogen, is just terrible.

Look at the beam pattern on a projector HID light that is designed for that type light.  The cut-off is razor sharp, crisp, etc..

Now go look at a HID stuffed into a housing it's not designed for...like the monster.  It's not even close, hot spots, glare, etc.  Some bikes that have projectors can get away with a HID retro (like the 749/999 low beam) with a good beam pattern.  THe monster cannot.

Put yourself on the opposite end, in a car or moto headed toward that light.  Do you like being blinded by some truck/suv with their brights on?  The HID glare is 10 times as bad.

my 10 cents.

That is pretty true to an extent. but the amount of light it generates is so massive that you can get away with it.  Well before i say that, do note that i run dual HID beams in a much smaller housing, so my focus is decent. not close to a projector, but its decent. not sure how a monster headlamp would work out too.

Cut-off on the stock bucket with HID is actually very good.  My HID equipped Monster doesn't have the ruler straight line my BMW's HID lights make (car), but it will not blind oncoming drivers.  At all.

God, it's great when people with absolutely no first hand experience tell you how things will or won't work.   [bang]

I would love to do this.   Can you place something in the Tech Section.

see the how-to on the hid faq

the way it scatters is a matter of opinion. I agree with Taft though, the glare is pretty bad, but again, i have a different housing and if you see on the pic, my glare is almost 150 degrees. vice halogen is less than 90

Go pull up against a wall with your beam on, and post up a picture.

I'm not speaking out of my ass when I speak.  I've been in and around the aftermarket "business" for the past 10 years, and I've got a little experiance when it comes to this.    The stock beam pattern/cut off is terrible, and the pictures will show you.

Stock beam pattern:   

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/HID/buell_halogen-1.jpg)

Note, it's not THAT bad, has a decent cutoff pattern, but this is halogen.

Now, lets toss a HID bulb in there, what do we get:

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/HID/buell_kit.jpg)

Wow, look at the large hot spot, and how the cutoff is no longer cut off?  What's that....it's GLARE.  It annoys and blinds oncoming drivers.  The more passive of people will just look away, or might flash their brights at you.  The more aggressive drivers will simply turn on the high beams and blind you back. 

WHY does the pattern go to crap like this?  Well, for starters the housing isn't designed for the HID bulb.  The bulb is a bit longer, which changes the focus point, and creates a hot spot/glare on the beam pattern.

Here is what a proper HID pattern/cut off is supposed to look like:

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/HID/ProperHID1.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/TheoAftonomos/HID/ProperHID.jpg)

Do whatcha want, there is a reason they banned HID retro kits nationwide.....

A proper projector housing designed for HID is the answer.

And now I've wasted 15 minutes of my morning, and I've got to go to work.  I'd be more than happy to share my "idea" later, but I've got to eat/run.

Please do. 

I've done several retro fits of projector assemblies into a OEM housings.

The biggest problem with the monster headlight is the lens is diffused, which is going to scatter the beam pattern BADLY.  Even if I can squeeze a TSX projector in there, it's going to still have a crappy beam.

I'm looking/asking about how hard it would be to have a new lens made up.

Better yet, a pre-existing headlight with a clear lens.  There is already a round HID headlight solution out on the market, the JW Speaker light.  It's $400 though, and you still need a custom bucket mount, a different bucket, etc...

Nothing really easy here, if you want to do it right.   Getting a clear lens for the housing would be a LARGE step....anyone can retro a projector into the bucket...my dog without an opposible thumb can manage that.

damn son, you getting into EVERYTHING....

but seriously, if the price is right it would be a really really really great mod for these bikes.

I get bored easy, and I don't have tons of cash to spend, so I had to learn/self teach myself to do a bunch of stuff.

I must say I've been so impressed with my S4Rt from the get-go.  If I absolutily had to have one bike, it's be the monster.  The 999 would be parted/sold quick, same with some of the other stuff. 

Because I like it so much, I'm trying to systematically go through the bike, improving parts as I go.  I'm more of a minimalist, but  the headlight is a functional part of the bike.  Now that I'm in GA, I'm dodging dear almost everytime I go out.   It's hard to try and take in everything I'd like to "fix" at once, but the headlight is of high priority. 

If I only had all day to work on this stuff.   

Drink is gone, back to the garage to finish bolting on the new PC'd stuff :)

would it be possible to put one or two of the 999 lights inside the standard bucket and just put a piece of flat glass in the tub and work around it that way?

now when lit it won't look perfect but it will sorta look ok when the bike is sitting there.

the 999 lights still are not designed for HIDs and i dont know of anyone who has done HIDs in a 999 housing, so thats something youd have to try yourself. What i do know is, if you can afford to buy one with an HID kit, why dont you jsut get a whole new HID specifc bucket? lol

My track 999 has a headlight setup I'm working on to let me bolt up a single 999 low beam projector.

Just so happens I've got a H7 HID kit so I popped it in the bulb.

Pretty darn SHARP really, I'll get some pics tonight if I get time. 

Surely there's a HID kit out there in a classic round-headlight housing?

HD used to make (not sure if they still do) a projector and HID setup for the v-rod in a round headlight bucket. It looked really nice....BUT was really freaking expensive.

over in Iraq we got these bad ass led headlights for our Hummers i wanted to put one in my stock housing but they are 24v. they throw are bright like a HID but they have no ignitor like HID. any one have any ideas for a step up converter?

you're going to need something that can handle the power like this
http://www.secamerica.com/model620.html (http://www.secamerica.com/model620.html)

.....your also gonna need a new bucket.  An incandescent that throws like HID is going to be high wattage, and VERY hot.  I don't think the stock bucket is made to dissipate much more than it already does.  (Especially if you have any plastic parts in the mix.)

LED's put out very little heat.

So you're saying this ultrabright lights are LEDs? Then it is possible they could be modified to run off 12VDC. They probably only run off 24VDC to be compatible with the power distribution already in place in the vehicle. They may already have a step-down converter built in

Sorry, I missed the LED part.  (Hence my "incandescent" comment.)

LEDs are unconcerned with voltage (assuming there is enough).  The brightness is related to current.  When you see resisters used, they are relying on constant voltage, and tweaking the circuit for correct current.  It works well enough but is not the ideal solution.  My point is this ... LEDS don't need 24V. :)

I will say, though, that high power LEDS are not as cool as you think.  The multi-watt units are very different beasts than the little 5mm jobs most people have experience with.  I made a custom headlight for my bicycle using two 5-watt LEDS that mount using the handlebar as a heat sink.  When that thing is running it's like having grip warmers set to low.  Nice and bright, though.  [thumbsup]

I put a bi-Xenon HID kit in my standard headlight. I had to drill out the back of it so that it would fit. In retrospect, I wouldn't bother with the the Bi-Xenon and go with a standard Xenon HID lamp.

I do have the problem that I have to wait for the lamp to warm up before starting the engine otherwise the light will go out requiring me to turn the ignition off and then on again to reignite the lamp. I don't know what is causing this.

I often come home late from work in winter when its really dark. The light output is fantastic and you can see the road in all its glory. I adjusted the angle of the headlight until I was happy that it wasn't blinding oncoming cars. The Hi-beam has a maginet that pull the lamp back and alters the focus in the lense. I never need to use it though.

I got mine from www.emsusa.com.au

Any pics of the beam/pattern?

I'll take some tonight and post then

This is what we are running on our bike:

(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/Monster%20944/frontshot.jpg)

We added the HID headlight in late 2002...it has been working fine since.
 
JWS HID Headlight (http://"http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=605%7CLighting%2C%20Turn%20Signals%2C%20%26%20Mirrors&productID=6637&showDetail=1&categoryID=967|Head%20Lights%20%26%20Bulbs&vendoridtodisplay=0&filterFor=&collection=605%7CLighting%2C%20Turn%20Signals%2C%20%26%20Mirrors")

There is a less expensive 2 bulb Halogen version available for only $99: JWS Halogen Headlight (http://"http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=605%7CLighting%2C%20Turn%20Signals%2C%20%26%20Mirrors&productID=6636&showDetail=1&categoryID=967|Head%20Lights%20%26%20Bulbs&vendoridtodisplay=0&filterFor=&collection=605%7CLighting%2C%20Turn%20Signals%2C%20%26%20Mirrors") .
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/Misc/JWS8000Halogen.jpg)

 
You'll need a 7" headlight bucket to install this on a Monster. We were trying to put together a kit but could not find a good supply of buckets.

Here are a couple of Pics I took tonight. It's really hard to photograph.

(http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq127/dxg00/IMG_1096.jpg)

(http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq127/dxg00/IMG_1102.jpg)

nice!
could you take a pic from the rider position? looking down a road...

thanx

Preferrably both one with the light pointing down a road, but more importantly (to me), with the light shining at a wall, maybe 20' away.  [beer]

I tried doing that bit the pictures just don't come out. My camera just isn't good enough to control the shutter and aperture etc.

Unfortunately I had an accident on Monday and my pride and joy is now more so I won't be able to send you any more pics. Fortunately I walked away after a morning spent in the emergency ward.

I will vouch for the photos others have posted on this change over. The difference is amazing and well worth it if you ride at night often

TAftonomos, you might like to read over this thread discussing just changing over the lamp. The guys downunder are all very happy with the difference and the cost by comparison along with the ease of just changing over the lamp it may be a good place to start.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=2179.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=2179.0)

Sorry to hear about your accident, but glad you are ok  [thumbsup]

Thanks for the link.

Happy  [bacon] Day!

I installed the DDM Tuning Hi/Lo kit into my 07 S4RS and didn't have to make any modifications to the headlamp bucket at all.  It was pretty easy actually.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/3094719348_3ce6239443.jpg?v=0)

where do you hide everything else that is needed for this setup? it seems my HID kit did not have very long wires and im trying to figure out were to hide the boxes!

depending on the model, you should have some room to stuff the boxes in front of the airbox (behind steering head) and directly underneath the airbox as well. That's where I stuffed mine.

and I had to cut a hole for clearance in my bucket. seems this is hit or miss, depending on the bucket.

where does one obtain a small projector light?

My new project "may" employ a single projector headlight. That's a long way off in the future, but I'd like to go on and see what is out there.

Find a nearby auto-collision shop, and ask one of the techs if they have any headlights around, specifically a projector HID style you desire. These guys keep all the busted headlights out of cars and then sell them for about $5(maybe more or less in some areas) to a recycler that remans the lights and sells them again. When i was in autobody years ago(Baltimore) we had a chic that would drive down from Canada and buy all our headlights every month. It was a nice chunk of change we would get under the table.
I just got two projectors from a friend still in the business.

Ptam, Bones, why did one of you have to mod the bucket, the other no?

i have one of those that have the magnet core inside to change from low to high beam, and i didn't have to mod the bucket.
the only issue i have is that the wires from the bulb to the boxes are not very long, so i had to zip tie one of the boxes to the frame next to the head stem, i don't like the look of it there but it will have to do for now,untill i get a chance to add some wire to the leads.

did u get teh DDM kit? i have the same bulbs but they would not fit in my bucket. that was well over a year ago though, so im not sure if they made new tecnology for it...

i got the DDM kit that has the hi/lo feature and it was able to fit in my stock bucket and my desmoworld bucket. I think the bucket design changed though from the year of my bike to the newer ones.

i may just pull the trigger on it then. my H4 bulb is on its last leg.

Hey A M,

is this the kit you got?

http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=product&id=101&parent=85 (http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=product&id=101&parent=85)

did you get the 35w or 55w? From what I read, our bikes use the 55w H4 w/ Hi/Lo.... anyone confirm this?

I have the 35w, and it's bright enough.   Can't imagine how bright the 55w is.

35w has smaller packaging.

Ptam doesn't post around here no more.

I used the same kit he did and did not have to modify my bucket.


I used a cheapo kit he recommended off of ebay.


My bulbs haven't burnt out, either  ;)

It "may" be a metal vs plastic headlight bucket difference.

It's seems the newer (old style) monsters (e.g. s4rs, 695) with plastic headlight buckets have a bit more room for a hight/low kit.

Not too sure if the difference is the reflector, bucket, or both though.

YMMV

Any issues with heat melting or warping the plastic headlight buckets?

when did i say my bulb burned out?

didnt u have a metal headlight bucket? U had the blue S4R, that was 2005/6 only IIRC.

i picked 35W to put the least amount of tax on the 'lectrics.

That was my intention too, but after thinking about it, the 35w kit is using .8A less than the standard bulb's low-beam.

Does that make a difference ...I don't know... just more for the rectifier/regulator to burn off as heat?!?!

DDM doesn't state the Amps the 55W kit uses.

Now here's the question, with all the known possible rectifier/regulator issues, is it better to use more or less amps during normal operation?

Never had a problem with my reg/rec, so I can't answer that one.

35watt at 12volt is 3 amps. with internal resistance of the ballast and whatever wire they use, they are saying its more along 3.6amps
55watt at 12volt is 4.6amps with internal resistance, lets say its more along the lines of 5.5amps to be safe.

55watt bulb at 12volt is 4.6 amps, not sure if 55watt is actual consumption based on the resistance of the bulb.
but if it is, then to be safe, you can say the 55watt HID system uses an extra amp.

I just ordered the 35watt more becasue im afraid of heat build up.

Ok, I know we're getting off track a bit here, but since I've never done a side by side comparison...

Do the HID bulbs really put out that much more heat than an equivalent watt HID kit?

I think so. It may of been the kit i used ( i burned 4 ballasts with that stupid kid)

but the xenon put out more heat than halogen. other people who bought from DDM can say for sure, i wont get my kit till next week

He Man, what temp did you get? did you go with the Hi/Lo H4 or the one that didnt change?

hi lo, people here say it fits.

besides by law in nyc, i need a hi lo...well atleast i think this is a law.

i got 4500K which should be straight white. i also bought a 9005 kit for my friend who has a 749 in 6000 which is suppose tobe white with a hint of blue.

my first HID kit was 6000. one of the bulbs was white, the other a bit yellow...so i think its all based on the consistency of the gas they use.

I got the 35w 6k, and for the most part, it's pretty white...maybe with a "slight" hint of light blue.  I seen the pics of He Man's yellow 6k, and that one seems like it was just bad quality control or something...and of course He Man's luck did help either.   :P

Bi Xenon Dual HID Ducati Monster S2R (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slIGKua_CxM&feature=player_embedded#lq-hq-vhq)

its alright. i didnt mind it too much. clearly there is no cut off. i was using that in my dual headlights though. when i get my kit im installing it in my mono headlight, and ive seen people build a housing out of soda cans to make a cutoff, thats what im going to do.

/the white van is full of candy.

I was looking at DDM and they have the single ballast for MC's and the normal double for cars, and the difference is only 15 bucks. Does anyone know if there is a difference in the cord length or anything, or is it just single vs double? because to me, i can spend the 15 bucks for an extra. that, and the shipping is like 12 by itself!

yea their shipping is RAPE. $16 bucks for plain old UPS ground. thats how much i shipped my kobe 1 piece leather suit + a pair of boots for.

The cord length is the only difference. for a car, one of them is extremely long, the other is short.

theres a double car slim kit for $40, and a double moto slim kit for $40.
the single moto slim kit is $17.50, i bought  2 of those for my friends 749.
and i bought a single hi lo kit for the monster ($40)
if you buy the car dual kit, hi lo. you pay $20 more ($60 total) but you get left with 1 of them that has a long ass section of wire. you can cut it if you want and sell it or whatever, but your not saving much.

cool, thanks for the help/info.
is this the one you bought for the monster?

http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=product&id=106&parent=61 (http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=product&id=106&parent=61)

with an H4 bulb?

yup h4 hi/lo 35watt, not 55watt. you should be fine with 55watt as far as stock wiring goes though. i just dont think its that big of a deal.

im thinking of building a housing out of some scrap aluminum wire, shield it with a soda can, and then somehow fix a projector ontop of it. they shell projector lenses for $30 bucks on ebay

let me know how it turns out. I've got to finish my fork swap and my swingarm swap first - my bikes on blocks right now  :'( it would be interesting to see your soda can contraption

It seems the Moto kit and the car kit are the same, just 1 vs 2.  

Cords are just long enough to mount in front of the air box...and that's about it.

what about the car kit? the wires should be longer.


 i had a car kit on my bike ( dual headlights) one of them were longer then the bike. lol

Mine is the car kit.

I got mine when they were still $80 for a pair.  Maybe the spec of the kits changed...as with the pricing.

but as long as it plugs into the stock headlight connector there shouldnt be an issue, right? we wouldnt need anything longer except to mount the ballast farther back in an unseen area

What ever part the bottom arrow is pointing to, that's about the farthest back the cord would let it go.  As for the other cords, they are a bit longer.

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y126/hundredpercentkill/dmf/DSC00003.jpg)

Thanks for the pic darkstar, it really helps visualize it  [thumbsup]

thats where i mounted that box,and i'm thinking of extending the ble and red wire so i could mount it somewhere diffrent.
and my kit is actually powerd straight from the battery,so there is no load on the stock wiring since it only has to activate the relay (if this make any sense)

do you only have 1 beam then?

You didn't-did you forget your rant on ballasts in a different thread?


This was put in the '07 695 my wife has.

 ;D

im hoping these willl fit my bucket. the 695 bucket was plastic wasn it?

son of a pregnant dog. Well after waiting about 2 weeks for the DDM kit to arrive..... some notes


1) The HiLO H4 is physicaly to large to fit into the housing of a metal 2006 S2R1000 bucket.
2) They sent me 2 bulbs, 1 ballast, and a harness for 2 bulbs (car harness)


So What to do now?
They fit in my dual headlight easily, so i can run dual HIDs....but i would need to get another ballast, i could just buy another kit for $20 and get the ballast.

or I can just tell them they sent me the wrong shit and probably wait another 2 weeks to get the right kit, but i aint paying for shipping, they rapped me $20 to ship this thing.

Or i can just get the right harness and keep the extra bulb.

as i recall, my harness was for two also, but only one bulb and one ballast, so you just omitted the other stuff (I just chopped it out).

well if thats the case, ill just get another ballast then and stick it into my dual headlight setup.

I have to check the other package, acause i also bought 2 H3 bulbs and ballast +harness for my friends 749.


edit: they are missing the harness for the 749 unless the power connects straight to ballast....

oh and they are also missing a ballast..... -1 for DDM...

Weird. My setup is a "box", i'll call this the wiring "junction" - the wiring harness connects here, and the cables to the battery, and the stock headlight wiring plugs into the wiring harness.

This plugs into the ballast/igniter, which plugs into the bulb, as well the extra wire or so from the wiring harness, which seems to also plug into the bulb.

LOL...He Man's (bad) luck strikes again...and again...and again...    [laugh]

Yeah... I don't get that. It went straight into my 99's metal headlight bucket no big deal. And into my Desmoworld headlight bucket (also metal) no big deal. Weird.

Also, weird you are having rotten vendor luck with the packaging

bah.

Did your car harness have 1 side longer then the other?

This one is just like my ebay one that i paid $100 for. The only reason i bought a kit was beacuse a few members here have the DDM one and talk good of it. Im hoping thats true.

Mine was the moto one, and I believe it was two equal length runs of wires, and I chopped one out rather than ziptie-ing it up.

bah im going to see if they can send me a new harness, one isde is baout 18" max. the other one is over 4 feet.

i called in, and their mailbox if full. waited for 10 mins no one picked up so i used their online help thing. they gave me a ticket number and im suppose to get my answer via a msg board with a login. They email me my log in and all of a sudden teh whole msg board is blank. I clear my cookies and its back up again. somethings messed up with the login.

Hopefully i wont have to click on the dispute charge on my creditcard.

DDM

Price = Great.
Quality = Good enough from what I can tell so far...
Customer Service =  [laugh]  Good Luck!!!

From my experience, they'll straighten things out with you...If you can ever get a hold of them. 

well then, looks like that dispute button on my AMEX Is going to come in handy.  im giving them 3 days max to answer. free HID kit for me then. just need those damn ballast.

spent 20mins installing it to see how it looks. ehh. Notice that i have 2 bulbs, but only 1 ballast. lol 1 eyed monster

(http://kuixihe.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=556&g2_serialNumber=1)


(http://kuixihe.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=562&g2_serialNumber=1)

HI and LO use the same bulb,you can hear the magnet clonking when you hit the HI,
basicly the bulb moves back and fwd.

http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=product&id=106&parent=61 (http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=product&id=106&parent=61)

i bought this kit in 35w h4 hi/low a little while back and haven't gotten around to starting the install... i think i'll give it a go this weekend though since i'm sans ECU anyway and make sure at least that the bulb fits in the stock headlight bucket for the 2005 S4R

what did you get in the box?

how is the wire? i bought the same kit and they make the beast with two backsed up my order with no ballast.

yeah i went to install mine, and after opening up the headlight etc., and test fitting the bulb, i realize they didn't include the freaking wire to attach to the battery.  awesome.  so i called them up to ask if they could send me just that wire that was missing, and they said no, and that i had to order the freaking $35 bulb replacement kit, just so that i could get the wire, because of course they can't just sell me the damn wire separately.  so, $45 in total with shipping...  real stellar.

btw their policy requires that you notify them 48-72 hours from receiving your package of any defects or missing parts.  it's also worth noting that they included no slip in the box for me to even check that everything was there.

you and me both. i called three times. u cant leave a voicemail cause their inbox is full and they never pick up. I filed a claim with my credit card, they never responded and the case is still open.


HOWEVER mckraut, i can help help you out. I have an old HID kit where the ballast burned out. The connections are all the same, minus the controller (not sure if u got the one with the relay). You can hack it up or buy another kit and risk not getting a wire again. [laugh] im laughing, but im really crying.

seriously?  hell man, can i buy it off you?  maybe i can call them up and cancel my order quick

Do H4 bulbs come in low beam only? I think I'm deciding against the hi/lo after reading through this thread.