Ducati Monster Forum

On two occasions I have hit a "neutral" position between 5th and 6th gear. A nice quiet cruiser feeling at 110mph r:e) A bit scary to think what could happen if it suddenly fell into gear again without me preparing for it :o  Sometimes it will also be in neutral (between 2nd and first) without the green light coming on.
Is this because I'm too soft at the gear lever or is it just plain wrong and needs to be fixed? Bike (S2R800 '07) is still under warranty - will I have to get serious with my dealer?

I've ridden several dozen different Ducati motorcycles and only maybe two or three of them didn't get a false neutral between gears.  The most common is between 4th and 5th, and the second most common is between 5th and 6th.  The 1997 Monster that I used to own could easily get a false neutral between any two gears.  My ST2 is quite a bit better, and my 888 is way better.  But they all still do it.

I found the first false neutral on the day I bought the first Monster, after I had ridden about 20 miles on it and was trying to pass a truck on a two-lane road.  I probably revved the engine to 9000 rpms before I figured out what the problem was and slammed it into gear.  Moving the shift lever down about half an inch improved things, but didn't completely eliminate the problem.  Learning to give a firm shift helps a lot too.  I don't know of any way to make it completely go away.

So work on making firmer shifts, but also learn to recognize the problem so that you can pull the clutch back in and hit the shift lever again to get it into gear.

I'm certainly aware of it now - clutch is ready 8)
Is this issue Ducati style or is it also common on, let's say Japs? (not that you guys would know first hand, but have you heard of it?)

I've owned eight Yamahas and rode a total of about 40,000 miles on them together, and I don't remember ever getting a false neutral on any of them.

That doesn't mean that other brands don't get false neutrals, but Ducati definitely gets more than some other brands.

That's "Italian Neutral." Standard on all Ducatis. ;:| ;:| ;:|

+1

I quite often get false neutrals if I've been riding my Honda for a while and get back on the Monster - the little 250cc Honda has a _beautifully_ smooth gearbox, and requires barely a nudge of the gear lever to change reliably. If I ride it for a few days then hop back on the Monster I'll often find myself either missing shifts by not pushing the lever far enough and letting the clutch back out in the same gear I started in, or finding a false neutral (or the real neutral unexpectedly of shifting between 1st and 2nd).

If it doesn't go away when you pay attention to shifting firmly, you may have bent shift forks (unlikely unless it's ever been down heavily on the gearlever side or you ride like a 800lb gorilla and pound the shit out of the lever on downshifts), or if it's been happening since new it's possible the gear cluster was never shimmed properly from the factory.

I'm 99.9% sure you'll find Scotts right though pay a little attention to shifting more firmly for a day or two and you'll probably find it only ever happens when you're getting distracted and lazy on your shifts.

big

Interesting that my old Kwaka had as many, if not more false neutrals, as my Dukes. In a sequential box it can be expected. - Chris

ps, adjusting your gear foot lever so you can make the change more solid helps plenty. (as others suggested)

Yup, I'll try to be firmer on the lever.
Actually, now that you mention it..... :-[ ..... the bike was kind of down on my foot once - foot was fine, but lever and rod slightly bend. I can see how this would effect the precision, but in that case not only between certain gears. Of course, if I have identified a weak spot it will probably be "easier" to find with damaged parts.
I will add adjustment of the lever to my list, though.

The list is now:
Ducati style (shrug)
Firmness
Replace parts
Be aware
Alert dealer

lowering the lever helped me, you can also adjust for a reverse shift pattern. which allows more positive upshifts being your pressing down, which is more natural. feels weird in the beginning :-\

It doesn't happen to me much but it does happen from time to time so its good to know about it and know how to handle it.

The first time I had a false neutral was on my first Monster (wet clutch) and I was on a highway in a passing situation with a need for more speed. I shifted to the next higher gear and unexpectedly found the false neutral.  I was shocked.  Instead of being in gear and going faster all of sudden the engine was not engaged and my throttle turned into a powerless noise maker. It took me a bit to understand what happened and get in the right gear.   Later I checked around (just as you are doing).

I am now on my second Monster (dry clutch) and it can also false neutral. I only get them changing higher but I've heard other people can get then down shifting too.

The way I understand it is that if I am lazy (too soft or too short) with pushing the gear lever up then its possible to get out of the current gear but not select the next gear and end up in neutral.  So I need to be firm with the up shift on the gear lever and feel the new gear be accepted.  In other words I need to be committed to the change :)

Next time you ride, pay particular attention to the feel through the lever when you make that 5-6 shift.

I've noticed that it kinda goes click-CLICK.
I think the neutral is just after the first click.

Just have to follow through, like hitting a baseball.

If you do find a false neutral make sure you correct it by shifting into the next higher gear.  The sudden engine braking and wheel hop that will cause instability during critical situations on the street, i.e. heavy acceleration to pass,  if you panic and down shift while revs aren't matched could spell disaster! 

In case of a false neutral...ALWAYS UP SHIFT TO BE SAFE! 8)

I've ridden, raced, and owned probably about a hundred bikes over the last 40 years and I can safely say that I've managed to get a false neutral on just about every one of them at some point.  Sometimes it's been my own clumsy foot, but some bikes are more prone to it than others just as a consequence of their shift mechanism's design.  My Multistrada will get a false neutral between 5th and 6th about every 200 shifts, or some weird thing.  I'll go for days without a missed gear and then, bam, there it is.  My new Monster Tricolore just got its first missed shift while accelerating uphill on the way to work, and sure enough it was between 5th and 6th.  Strangely enough, the best shifting bike I've ever owned has been my '95 900SS.  I'm sure I've missed a shift on it, but for the life of me I can't remember when.  That thing really shifts well and never seems to miss a shift.  Most scary situation?  Railing into a corner at high speed while downshifting and then missing a gear.  If you drop down you may go two gears down and lock the rear wheel; if you go up you may not get enough engine braking and might run wide or not make the corner at all.  How we manage to put these fears behind us and continue riding is amazing, but we do.  It's just too damn fun!  Stay alert, be positive on your shifts, and if you miss one don't rev it to the moon but simply pull in the clutch and go up a gear as it's easier on the gearbox and your adrenal gland than hitting too low a gear.  Hope this helps.

What Speeddog said


I am just breaking in my Monster and got a false neutral between 5 and 6.  I started paying attention and it is the same click-click into sixth.  Now I just try to be a little more positive with the shifts and no worries.  :)

My first time was when upshifting, second when downshifting - I tried to neutralize it on purpose. When I did it on purpose it was a very careful move, so I agree on the firm shift advice. I have a slipper clutch ('07 S2R800) and that might come in handy, but mostly I want to NOT find out how it might help. My concern is not so much that this happens, but I fear the next gear might engage by itself before I'm able to correct the "new neutral". Any chance of that happening?

False neutrals on very bike I have ever ridden (Jap, Italian, German, British you name it) at some time or another. It is better when the gear dog is "backcut" but then the shift isn't very positive feeling. Most of the newer bikes are using straightcut dogs. Much easier to find neutral in between.  :P

02 S4 Here. Just a little stiff when new some false neutrals at about 4,000 miles only 5 to 6th false neutral on occasion. After 5800 miles the  shifts are smooth with little effort and constantly geeting better .


Tim

I guess I just do everything with a bit of extra brute force. ;D  Can't remember false neutral ever being an issue on my bike.   (also  an '07 S2R800)  And I hope it never becomes an issue 1/2 way through a turn either!

But  there is a teeny little area on the shifter between 1st and 2nd where the neutral light doesn't come on and the bike is already in neutral. 

I was going to mention it to the dealer if I ever take it in for service  ;D  .  In the meantime I just remember it's there. [moto]

On mine too - will have dealer checking all of this next time I'm in - in two weeks.

Both of my Monsters acted the same.   I sometimes want to get to neutral and I find it but the neutral light on the dash does not illuminate.  In other words I am in neutral but no light.  Its like I entered neutral without triggering the light sensor. No biggy because I am used to it (and the false neutral stuff).  I simply shift up and down again and the light comes on.

Why is it that the only time i miss a shift is when theres a crowd of people staring at me?

Probably cause you're too busy checking out their titslooking at them to pay attention to shifting properly...

 ;)

big (not that _I'd_ know anything about that mistake...)

It happens on my S2R800 also but only between 5th and 6th so its never mid corner.

Before I bought the monster I rode a friends 600SS, '97 model. I had trouble finding neutral after stopping at the lights or wherever if the bike was running. Not a problem if you found it rolling up to the lights or the bike is switched off, just while it was idling sitting still. Funny about that.

At least I can easily find neutral on the monster where its supposed to be.

my 04 800 has the same thing from 5th to 6th.  it feels like there is a click-click thing happening. 

its actually a design thing that ducati did on purpose to let you know you were shifting into 6th, that way you would never try and shift again looking for that nonexistent next gear.

When you see the green "N" illuminated, you know what that means, right??

-It means the bulb's not burnt out!!   ;D

-I remember my MSF instructor telling us that....NEVER trust the Neutral light, he said.....

I always just let the clutch out a hair and see if I hear the idle drop....if so, I'm not in neutral.... [thumbsup]

Really? Where did you get that information and do you know for sure it's not what some dealer told you to get out of "trouble"? I'm not doubting you, it's just a little hard to think that Ducati would be that customer friendly ???

I also question where you got that from.

If you try to shift to "7th" gear, it feels different, but it doesn't hurt anything at all if you do it.  That's the only sure way to know you're in 6th if you haven't kept count and don't recognize it by feel.

I also do the same thing down from first sometimes, just to make sure.

it was actually a joke guys.  i am  100% sure ducati didnt do it on purpose.

 [laugh] Me too [thumbsup]