Ducati Monster Forum

was cornerworking at a track school last weekend.  i had to sit there and watch 2 1098s and a 999 circle the track that all desperately, visibly needed suspension help.  i expected each one to go down each time they came by.  MANY totally unnecessary close calls.

this has been the subject of several comically combative posts here re folks who think they can do this themselves.  suspension dialing is a science.  if you aren't that scientist.. as in, this is not already what you do for a living.. pay the $40-$70 for someone who knows what they're doing.

these poor guys were fighting their bikes all weekend.  it made me cringe.

So in your opinion, simply setting the correct sag for you weight is something that should be done by a qualified tech? And not a group of buddies on a saturday morning?

Well, there's much more to it than just setting sag as you well know.  Sag is easy, from there it gets much tougher.

From my point of view, making a blanket statement  that suspension set up is a mystical science that should be not touched is a bad.  Suspension dialing includes setting the correct sag and that alone should provide a huge improvement for most riding conditions.

Beyond sag setup I would agree that it becomes much more involved, but if after the sag setup the bike still runs like crap, it's probably  due more  to a limitation of the internals components (springs for example) rather then further magical tuning.

My 2 cents.

Interesting.  What could you see?

yep, it'll help a lot.  but setting up a suspension completely, not just sag, is what i posted about.  there are many other adjustments to be made.  maybe that'll involve re-springing or re-valve'ing.  maybe it won't.  knowing all the variables there and being able to make the right recommendation is a science.

besides, what, you're arguing the wisdom of spending <$100 (if there are no new parts) to make the bike infinitely more rideable?  seriously?

and this isn't about most riding conditions.  it's deliberately on the Trackdays board.


that possibly true but not probably true.

the 999 forks would just about bottom out on light braking.  then the rebound was slow and sloppy.  he looked like he was about to lose the front each time.  rear end looked too stiff for him.  this was a small, skinny guy.

both the 1098s were ridden by considerably larger people.  bikes sat way too low in the back and also dove in the front.  they both wanted to run wide, did several times.  twitchy and mushy.

It depends on what results you want to get, and how you plan to ride the bike. There is no real correct answer, but maybe I can help put it into practical terms.

For most people, setting the sag with "buddies in the garage" will work just fine. Most riders won't know much of a difference when just doing average street riding. They will feel some changes and can make small adjustments from there to fit their own comfort. That is for street.
if one plans to ride track, then the answer most of the time to your question would be to have someone with knowledge help set it up. Track settings are different than street settings. You are asking your suspension to do something completely different so you need to adjust it for the job required. If you don't, you may very well be one of the examples mentioned above.
I know several very experienced racers who don't set up their own suspension. They just leave it to the people who know what they are doing. And I'm talking about championship winning racers.

So, it depends on what you want to get out of it. If you are just setting your bike up better for the street, then sure...no biggie really. But, if you are looking for performance tuning of your suspension and are putting your hide (and those around you), at risk then it's best to check your ego, open your wallet a little bit and go see the experts.
 [beer]

I was typing for a while so a lot of comments were made....In response to this comment, sag settings are different for track than street. So no, just setting sag then hoping it applies to every situation is wrong.

What you've just described sounds like it can be remedied by simply setting the correct sag.  The latter example, with the large people, could exceed the desired sag settings with stock springs as stated in my other post..which is "possibly true but not probably true"  [laugh]

if you really want to get nit-picky, you can't really set "truly proper" sag unless the bike is sprung properly. that means static AND rider sag. w/o proper springs, you won't get both.

there's an entire industry of race suspension experts out there that need your help in that case.

Suspension set up is easy.  You don't need a pro.  Just click the 'lil knobby things to the right.  If you almost crash, click 'em back to a left.  Then take a hammer to your rear shock.  Turn some more knobby things.  Turn 'em at the top, at the bottom and anywhere else you can find little knobbies.  Then measure the height of your bike.  Jump up and down on the tank and seat.   You're done.   [thumbsup]

[laugh]

Don't forget boiling the springs makes them stiffer. Oh and over fill your forks with oil it helps the damping.

You guys crack me up!   [laugh]

I never said I was an expert suspension tuner...far from it....but I disagree with the comment that only highly magically charged specialists should set up bike suspension.  Clearly we are not gonna agree on that. [beer]

U hit the nail on the head Spidey. That's the way I do it,,,lol. Eventually U will come up with the right combination (if it doesnt kill U 1st)  ;D

Never have more truer words been spoken here. [clap]

I'm one to admit I pretty much know to little to setup my own suspension. I tried playing with this and that and never got/felt the results I was looking for. I was very disappointed.  :'(   I also had installed springs for my weight.

I finally had the time to take my bike to the local shop. The owner is a racer and knows what he is doing. He dialed in my 620 for me at one point and it was amazing. He took his time riding my bike and pulling into his shop about 4 times. He noticed a strange sound coming from the rear and spent some time looking for it. I had the rearsets on too tight. He fixed that for me too. He clicked away at the rear the front, the compression and rebound. The bike never felt better. I took her up that morning(his shop opens at 7am) and road her like a madman.

Thanks POLO!!! I offered to pay him for his services and he refused.  [thumbsup]

Here's the shop: Ask for Polo.
http://www.mototecnica.net/home.htm (http://www.mototecnica.net/home.htm)

socal only (obviously) but i've also heard good stuff about that shop from racers.

Polo is a good guy - his crew brought my old R1 back to life after a lowside on T8 at WSIR so I was very happy about that.  I then took my WHEELS to get new TIRES mounted and they hooked it up for $20.  I later found out that they had completely misaligned my front wheel which resulted in a ruined trackday for me.  I haven't gone back since...ohhh well.... [drink]

that's really hard to do w/ only the axle and a single spacer.

You "took in the wheels to get tires mounted"?  They only charged you $20?  So you re-installed the wheels on the bike yourself, yes?

After your T8 lowside, did you get your forks, wheels, swingarm, frame, subframe straightened before blaming the "misaligned" front axle?  Do you think that a properly set-up suspension might have prevented said lowside in the first place?

Just askin'  :)

-R.

 [laugh].  i had decided to leave that one alone....

I wish I could get my suspension dialed in by someone who knows a lot more than I do about tuning, but I think I am SOL without any sort of track in Hawaii...

wish they would fix that  :)

good luck on that one!

There's a group of Hawaiians who fly out to SF once a month to race AFM.  Considering the overall cost of racing, 8 flights a year ain't that bad.  It's just a bit more than a set of tires.

and they leave their bikes in the states...?

Yeah.  They've got a storage unit shared with some locals where they keep a toyhauler and their race bikes.  A couple of them come out for some of the West Coast AMA rounds too.  It sounds like they end up doing a lot of late night wrenching after flying out because they don't have their bikes with them on the islands.  I guess if you live in Hawaii and want to race, that's how you do it. 

ugh, that's a lotta work.  ...wish someone would build a track there  =)

with all the sport bikes and sports cars i see there you gotta think that something small would be sustainable.  land on the other hand...

who neeeds land...just build a REALLY obscenely huge barge land mass like on a platform like an oil drilling rig but much much much bigger and let people race on it...run off room?....kersplash!....

maybe we should take that $50 you're going to owe several of us and start a fund....  ;D

instead of Bridge to Teribithia.....Platform Track for Hawaii!