Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Racing & Trackdays => Topic started by: Gator on October 21, 2008, 02:31:46 AM



Title: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Gator on October 21, 2008, 02:31:46 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/automobiles/19INSURE.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/automobiles/19INSURE.html?hp)

the article is focused on auto insurance, but its only a matter of time before it bleeds over into motorcycles.

Make sure your policy hasn't been changed to exclude all track events.
Mine excludes only timed events so track days are still OK  [thumbsup]   


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: gm2 on October 21, 2008, 06:26:13 AM
as you mentioned usually it's just "timed events"

but if your street-legal bike goes down on the track, how are they going to know exactly where it happened?


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Statler on October 21, 2008, 06:39:42 AM
as you mentioned usually it's just "timed events"

but if your street-legal bike goes down on the track, how are they going to know exactly where it happened?

simply reading your policy and possibly negotiatiing some language changes (mine now says no competitive timed events so lap timer transponder on my bike is ok) is a lot smarter than lying to your insurance carrier about a claim.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: gm2 on October 21, 2008, 06:48:23 AM
simply reading your policy and possibly negotiatiing some language changes (mine now says no competitive timed events so lap timer transponder on my bike is ok) is a lot smarter than lying to your insurance carrier about a claim.

i agree with that.  but you can't tell me you think insurance companies are the most forthright, honest entities in the world.

if you do trackdays more than once or twice a year, i'd do it the right way.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: ducpainter on October 21, 2008, 07:00:52 AM
i agree with that.  but you can't tell me you think insurance companies are the most forthright, honest entities in the world.

if you do trackdays more than once or twice a year, i'd do it the right way.
You're talking to a .....

lawyer.   :P [laugh] [laugh]


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Statler on October 21, 2008, 07:03:14 AM
It's not that I'd feel bad getting one over on the giant company...more that I have an understanding of the consequenses of getting caught.  

It's one of those times when someone is going to do it thinking they'll save some trouble, and end up losing not only their insurance claim, but their insurance policy (and any other policies with that company...and have a hard time getting anyone else to insure them), face some insurance fraud issues which could effect their job, etc.etc.etc.

Then they'd complain about what bad luck they have.

not worth it.    Even for one track day...have your policy cover it if you think you would ever use the policy to insure crash damage.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Statler on October 21, 2008, 07:04:19 AM
Where's the middle finger smiley?

 [cheeky]


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: gm2 on October 21, 2008, 07:14:23 AM
You're talking to a .....

lawyer.   :P [laugh] [laugh]

yeah yeah, i know... ;)

and i'm not advocating be stupid, or promoting fraud as a best practice.  ...and i've never seen a policy that doesn't carve out "timed events".

but i've also seen insurance companies do plenty of unscrupulous things.  if it's a matter of my bike fell over here vs there, which could be a 10 ft difference, and the damage is the same and the outcome is the same, i wouldn't lose sleep over it.

FTR, my track bike is insured only non-op for theft.  =)


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Statler on October 21, 2008, 07:33:14 AM
oh hell yeah...screw 'em if you can (can be read as utilize your policy to its fullest).

I just want folks to know worst case scenerios going in so they aren't surprised.  Worst case here is a lot worse than just them denying the claim.    Allways a risk assesment.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: ducpainter on October 21, 2008, 07:36:38 AM
Insurance companies are in business to collect money...

not pay it.

...and they'll go to any length possible to avoid the latter.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: tufty on October 21, 2008, 07:40:27 AM

but i've also seen insurance companies do plenty of unscrupulous things. 

Heh, you ain't wrong. When I lowsided my 848 (at the track) they wanted to total my bike for the sake of $300 worth of welding (literally). I pleaded, but they refused to repair and insisted that it was totalled.

They came back with an initial offer of $10,000 :o and said that was what NADA said the bike was worth, I laughed in their face and asked how come a 2006 749 was worth $11,000? They just threw that original number at me to see if i'd bite, that IS dishonest AND unscrupulous IMO.  [roll]


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Statler on October 21, 2008, 07:45:30 AM
Why don't you guys get policies with a declared value in them?    Solves the arguing over what it's worth.



Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: ducpainter on October 21, 2008, 07:49:05 AM
they wanted to total my bike for the sake of $300 worth of welding (literally). I pleaded, but they refused to repair and insisted that it was totalled.


...and it seems to be totally arbitrary as to what they want to total. A friend with, I'll bet, similar frame damage is having his 848 repaired for under $2500. There was other damage, but the dealer wrote the estimate with a frame repair so as not to total the bike.

Personally I think the companies limit their costs by totaling because the salvage companies are in their pockets

They suck.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: tufty on October 21, 2008, 07:53:01 AM
I bought it from them, they surprised me and came back with a really good salvage price of $4000. So basically I've got an 848 for $4000 + $2000 worth of repairs... it's insane IMO.

At least I'm less concerned about throwing it down at the track now ;D


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: SP3 on October 21, 2008, 01:18:21 PM
but if your street-legal bike goes down on the track, how are they going to know exactly where it happened?

Maybe the LACK of a police report on the "accident"? If the damage is high enough that you would make a claim it's most likely going to be looked upon with some suspicion if there is no police report to go with it.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: gm2 on October 21, 2008, 02:04:37 PM
in many states unless someone is hurt or property (other than the vehicles involved) damaged, there is no police report. 


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Statler on October 21, 2008, 02:52:15 PM
There'd be very little to point to what actually happened, but you just never know.

Who knows if there's an insurance agent here online.   You lie on your report and inevitably discuss it here on the DMF (I'm shocked about how many people are happy to post illegal activity here...like it's private).   

All sorts of ways to accidently discover the truth.   Forums are a great source for insurance investigators.



Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: tufty on October 21, 2008, 05:58:51 PM
Maybe the LACK of a police report on the "accident"? If the damage is high enough that you would make a claim it's most likely going to be looked upon with some suspicion if there is no police report to go with it.

Police report? What if you wreck your scoot on a quiet road with no one else involved and you aren't injured and are able to get the bike home. Should you still call the police? and if not, is your insurance still liable to fix the damage?


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: ducpainter on October 21, 2008, 06:06:30 PM
In NH if the damage exceeds $1K you're required to report it to the police.

Problem is...how is the lay person to know until they get an estimate?


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: SP3 on October 22, 2008, 03:12:01 PM
in many states unless someone is hurt or property (other than the vehicles involved) damaged, there is no police report. 

I am not familiar with those states.

Police report? What if you wreck your scoot on a quiet road with no one else involved and you aren't injured and are able to get the bike home. Should you still call the police? and if not, is your insurance still liable to fix the damage?

You did not read my full statement then so I'll quote myself -
If the damage is high enough that you would make a claim it's most likely going to be looked upon with some suspicion if there is no police report to go with it.

As for your second quesion, I don't know. I would be willing to bet that you'll have a tougher time getting them to pay up without the police report.



Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: tufty on October 23, 2008, 04:33:42 AM

As for your second quesion, I don't know. I would be willing to bet that you'll have a tougher time getting them to pay up without the police report.


I've had two wrecks that involved substantial costs ( both bikes were totaled), with 2 different insurance companies and on neither occasion did I call the police and in neither case did the insurance company raise any questions.

Here in GA it doesn't pay to call the police in a single vehicle accident, they'll cite you regardless. It's better just to pick up the pieces and get home.

Coincidentally, I've also made claims on cars without police interference. I don't understand why everyone feels compelled to call the police the second they bend a foot peg or scratch their hood.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: ducpainter on October 23, 2008, 04:38:50 AM
I don't understand why everyone feels compelled to call the police the second they bend a foot peg or scratch their hood.


I don't think everyone does.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: gm2 on October 23, 2008, 05:57:16 AM
I am not familiar with those states.

California, for one.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: SP3 on October 23, 2008, 08:59:00 AM
I don't understand why everyone feels compelled to call the police the second they bend a foot peg or scratch their hood.


I don't think everyone does.



I certainly don't. Some people don't bother reading.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: tufty on October 23, 2008, 05:19:30 PM

I certainly don't. Some people don't bother reading.

Well no problem then, I can't read.

Btw, I wasn't talking about you.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: sbrguy on October 23, 2008, 08:00:55 PM
There'd be very little to point to what actually happened, but you just never know.

Who knows if there's an insurance agent here online.   You lie on your report and inevitably discuss it here on the DMF (I'm shocked about how many people are happy to post illegal activity here...like it's private).   

All sorts of ways to accidently discover the truth.   Forums are a great source for insurance investigators.



yeah but internet forums are also places where adults "pretend" to be underage.  meaning nothing on an internet forum can really be taken as truth until its literally verified in person.. otherwise everything is people talking out of thier  a**es.


Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: goldFiSh on October 24, 2008, 03:16:39 AM
on the topic of the OP, count yourselves lucky..... Here in Oz, I'm almost 100% sure that no insurance company will insure you on any track - timed or otherwise... and if anyone can point me in a direction to be able to get insurance, then I'd be greatly appreciative..



Title: Re: Insurance companies are shying away from track days.
Post by: Cider on October 24, 2008, 06:48:48 AM
and if anyone can point me in a direction to be able to get insurance, then I'd be greatly appreciative..

Lloyds of London will insure anything, if the price is right.


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