I'm thinking about starting up. mostly to get into shape, but I've always wanted to get into it.
when I was a kid, I took moo duk kwan classes for about a year and really enjoyed it.
my options around here are:
Judo & Jujitsu
Aikido
Kung Fu
Tang soo do
(these are all taught at the local YMCA)
There is also a MMA/ Thai Kickboxing school here, but it's quite a bit more pricey, and I'm not really into the whole UFC sceen (I here all the guys who train there want to be fighters). I really enjoyed the moo duk kwan classes when I was younger....and the judo looks like alot of fun.
any suggestions/opinions?
Lots of difference between all of those styles. Is there anything in particular besides getting in shape that you are looking for?
There can also be a huge difference between different schools / instructors.
If they allow it, I'd recommend sitting in or at least observing one of each class, and see what appeals to you the most, and where you get a good feeling from the way the instructors are working with the students.
Try them all out and see what fits best. You should get a free class or two.
I've been doing Aikido for about a year now. I really like it! It depends on who you go to though. My current dojo seemed kind of slow in comparison to my first school In Seattle but I was happy after I started going to advanced classes. I really get a workout some days! Plus, you get to where a hakima and learn the way of the sword! BONUS!! ;D We also do knife takeaways and work with the jo. Very fun stuff!
A lot of people say it's all show and and say "people don't really flip like that" but..that's the way Aikidoka train. Believe me, I got a taste of it my first month of training. :-[ If you DON'T flip or take "ukemi" properly..you'll seriously get messed up if your partner knows what they're doing!
Lots of youtube clips..this is one of my favorites. I kow Segal is a cheeseball but he is a 7th Dan and was the first non-Japanese to teach in Japan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7aauJuQHY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7aauJuQHY)
Here is an example of a more combat/street style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN7yn0XOSMQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN7yn0XOSMQ&feature=related)
Aikido was originally intended to be a gentle and defensive art. The art of peace. It's all about blending with the attack and taking the person down without getting hurt or hurting them.
Judo would be fun to learn. I guess this is the first martial art you should start kids in. I would love to take it up! My kid will definitely be involved with both Judo and Aikido. [thumbsup]
MMA..would be fun but I've had back problems in the past. You never know what's going to happen when you're training like that. I don't want to get messed up again. Plus..like you said..the gyms can get expensive. Sinister is into MMA in Seattle. Talk to him.
I can't remember who is into TKD..someone up in the NW too.
Also, Kni..claims to be some kind of ninja.
Whatever..Red Warrior.
I'm sure he got his belt from Rex Kwan Do's Urban Ninja Academy [cheeky]
I don't know anything Tang soo do?!
Quote from: msincredible on October 24, 2008, 04:13:13 PM
Lots of difference between all of those styles. Is there anything in particular besides getting in shape that you are looking for?
There can also be a huge difference between different schools / instructors.
If they allow it, I'd recommend sitting in or at least observing one of each class, and see what appeals to you the most, and where you get a good feeling from the way the instructors are working with the students.
This might sound kinda silly, but other than getting into shape, I want something that can get my mind off of everything else. I've gotten the impression from people that the Shaolin Kung Fu involves a lot of mental discipline and training. That appeals to me, though I'm sure all of these have some aspects of that.
Quote from: IZ on October 24, 2008, 04:26:12 PM
I don't know anything Tang soo do?!
From what I've gathered, It's a Korean style somewhat similar to the Moo Duk Kwan I did as a kid. Hands and feet, no weapons.
The Aikido and Judo do look like a lot of fun though!
Great vids IZ.
The aikido and krav maga would be the two I would look into. Real world use.
Quote from: Le Pirate on October 24, 2008, 06:03:48 PM
I've gotten the impression from people that the Shaolin Kung Fu involves a lot of mental discipline and training. That appeals to me, though I'm sure all of these have some aspects of that.
From what I've gathered, It's a Korean style somewhat similar to the Moo Duk Kwan I did as a kid. Hands and feet, no weapons.
The Aikido and Judo do look like a lot of fun though!
Check out the Shoalin Monks..
Circle of Life. Good stuff! I saw them in Tempe a few years back. The bonus CD shows their training techniques. Yeah, tough mental discipline!!
Aikido is something that you practice well into your golden years. Look at O'Sensai..the founder of Aikido
FitTV had a good special on it. Similar to
Human Weapon series..but was done a few years before that came out.
Just hands and feet, eh? I'll have to check and see the differences between that Korean style with TKD.
Thanks Hbliam. I looked into KM up in Seattle but I wanted to learn more about he Japanese culture along with Aikido. The Human Weapon episode on Krav was pretty good!
Quote from: IZ on October 24, 2008, 07:23:12 PM
Just hands and feet, eh? I'll have to check and see the differences between that Korean style with TKD.
Thanks Hbliam. I looked into KM up in Seattle but I wanted to learn more about he Japanese culture along with Aikido. The Human Weapon episode on Krav was pretty good!
I'm interested in krav maga from a work standpoint. I think Aikido would work great too.
Im a Muay Thai whore. So i am bias. Akido is pretty damn cool though
I'm a kung fu guy, well, was. Stopped once I went off to college. The mental aspect of a style depends strongly on the teacher. My teacher was very casual. Just forms, a little application and some lion dancing around Chinese New Year. For the group that I came from, self defense wasn't a main element of the class. That was more something that you had to think about on your own. This was largely due to the fact that it was a community center thing and they had full contact rules. As for getting into shape, that all depends on you and how much effort you put into the class.
The Tang Soo Do kinda looks like Tae Kwon Do but w/ more hands. I'd go for the Kung Fu.
Quote from: erkishhorde on October 25, 2008, 10:17:41 AM
I'm a kung fu guy, well, was. Stopped once I went off to college. The mental aspect of a style depends strongly on the teacher. My teacher was very casual. Just forms, a little application and some lion dancing around Chinese New Year. For the group that I came from, self defense wasn't a main element of the class. That was more something that you had to think about on your own. This was largely due to the fact that it was a community center thing and they had full contact rules. As for getting into shape, that all depends on you and how much effort you put into the class.
The Tang Soo Do kinda looks like Tae Kwon Do but w/ more hands. I'd go for the Kung Fu.
The guy who does the Kung Fu here is supposedly very into the culture of it. I've talked to a couple people who do the classes and, apparently, by the time you've been in there a couple years, you're just about fluent in Mandrin.
I think I might go with the Aikido, after talking to some folks taking it. Partly cause it looks fun, partly because it'd be somewhat useful (maybe) in normal life (I know I'm never going to show down with a band of ninjas), and partly because it's the cheapest to join [cheeky]
Have fun, let us know what you think after you've been there a while. [thumbsup]
I am a big fan of the internal arts. We have a great instructor in our area who teaches fully comprehensive Tai Chi. (meditation, flexibility and fighting) If we can get some more people interested he will bring back his Ba Gua and Hsing-I class. Ba Gua is neat because it makes you very elusive. Everything revolves around circles. (think Barry Sanders 360 move, but not only did he slip away... you're also on your ass too!) Not much experience with Hsing-I except I know it's very linear. (strike, retreat)
Also I can't resist slipping this in.... (http://forum.valinor.com.br/attachment.php?attachmentid=14777&d=1201809936)
I know its not on your list but I've always wanted to try Krav Maga. Seems like it would be really fun and have actual real world applications. If I wasn't working full-time and going to school full-time I would be trying it myself.
Quote from: metallimonster on October 26, 2008, 01:55:07 PM
I know its not on your list but I've always wanted to try Krav Maga. Seems like it would be really fun and have actual real world applications. If I wasn't working full-time and going to school full-time I would be trying it myself.
From what ive seen (they teach it where i take MT) its about 80% cheap shots to the eyes thoat and nuts. the super secret squirrel elite stuff about it is awesome, but most classes dont focus on that part of KM.
Quote from: metallimonster on October 26, 2008, 01:55:07 PM
I know its not on your list but I've always wanted to try Krav Maga. Seems like it would be really fun and have actual real world applications. If I wasn't working full-time and going to school full-time I would be trying it myself.
I looked it up. Interesting for sure, but I'm highly limited to whats available here. I don't live in a huge city (more medium, 110k), and I'm 2 hours to the closest large city, so I have to stick to what is taught here.
I'm going to preface this with my experience with various martial arts, because it is going to sound a little jaded in a bit.
Tang Soo Do for 8 years.
A brief stint with Chinese Opera.
Wushu very seriously for 6 years.
Capoeira for 4 years.
San shou kick boxing for 6 months.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for a year.
I've also known tons of other martial artists in Sports karate, wing chun, Hung Gar/Choy Li Fut, Tai Chi, etc. What it breaks down to is what you want out of it and who teaches it.
What you want out of it?
Culture: If you're looking for the traditional style of discipline and spirituality, I can't recommend having an old country teacher enough. Part of the cultural understanding is lost if someone learns a martial art in the US. The coach that taught me best about focus and intensity was my wushu coach. Although wushu is a performance/sport martial art, the work ethic I got from her was great. It's because she lived the culture and started when she was 6. You can't really get that kind of instruction and lifestyle in America.
Also, beware of the large amount of fake culture out there. Just because you can say some words in Korean, wear a gi 4 days a week or decided to become a Buddhist, doesn't necessarily mean a true understanding of Zen belief or even Asian culture.
Exercise:
While I'm a firm believer in that you have to do outside fitness training to become a successful martial artist, not all martial arts are created equal from a workout perspective. Minimal resistance arts like Aikido and Taichi aren't really going to get your heart rate going. Nor are they going to help your flexibility. Also be aware that different martial arts have the propensity for different kinds of injuries. Injury from actually fighting is relatively rare compared with injury you get in practice, jumping, being thrown around or breaking boards.
Self Defense:
If you want to hit stuff, train hitting stuff. If you want to wrestle and throw people, train by wrestling and throwing people. A lot of martial arts is kicking and punching air. That doesn't actively teach you how to make contact or how to react. If you want to learn how to handle yourself in a fight, do a martial art that actually involves contact. Live action such as rolling in Brazilian jiu jitsu/Judo or hitting pads and sparring in boxing will teach you much more than breaking boards and kicking air.
Be wary of martial arts claiming to have lethal or secret strikes. Good in concept maybe, but difficult to train and therefore not something you can rely on.
My Rant:
Martial artists are the dorks of the jock world or the dorks of the jock world. Usually they're dorks that manage to exercise or too dorky and into Asian culture to be a good regular athlete. Either way, remember that its a physically demanding activity and being physically prepared is a necessity for success. Usually that means working out and stretching on your own time.
Martial artists are often also inbred and infatuated with their own awesomeness. Many times they can't get over that their sifu could beat up your sifu, their art is better than your art or that their pony tail really expresses their Daoism. It's hard to find people who are serious about martial arts that also have a realistic grasp of their skills or of the philosophy and culture behind their art.
Also, there's no such thing as Shaolin. At least, not like there was in the 1800's. During the Cultural Revolution, all those things were swept away. Afterwards, a new order of Shaolin monks was installed. These are usually just men with shaved heads doing wushu. They often eat meat and have wives on the weekend.
My Suggestion:
If you want to get a real workout and learn some true applicable skills, it's hard to beat learning some kind of boxing/kickboxing or Brazilian Jiujitsu/Judo. Problematically, these classes also tend to attract guys with a lot of tattoos wearing Tapout apparel. If that's not your scene, any of the other martial arts will do. Just watch a class and watch the intensity.
More like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aCn06Jy5c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aCn06Jy5c)
And... less like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnjb8Hx76u8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnjb8Hx76u8)
Not to say that I have ANYWHERE near the experience of XiaoNio has, but I've run the gambit since I was a little kid and I agree with a lot of what he says. For the most part, you're not going to get all your excercise out of a couple of sessions a week. It's going to require lots (LOTS) of extra stretching, cardio....... I can vouch for Judo though, or for that matter any form that's going to involve throwing or grappling. Even back when I was in pretty good shape from cycling, I don't remember ever doing anything much more strenuous than grappling for 5 minutes at a time. It's simply exhausting.
It really does depend on what you want out of your training. My parents involved me in Tai Kwon Do as a kid just to get me used to public interactions, to get excercise, but mostly to learn how to defend myself when needed. From there I took Jiu jitsu (that was a "Y" class, not great but I still remember a lot of technique I learned from it) and Judo to round off my knowledge so that I had considerable ability in strike/block styles as well as joint manipulation and body manipulation. I was never really interested in Aikido and other training that involved weaponry simply because of its lack of real world functionality, but at the same time who wouldn't want to get set loose with a sword on someone? ;D. I agree with Sra. Incredible, most places (especially the local Y) wouldn't mind letting you sit in for a session or two. Good luck.
Quote from: Jarvicious on October 27, 2008, 02:24:13 PM
I was never really interested in Aikido and other training that involved weaponry simply because of its lack of real world functionality, but at the same time who wouldn't want to get set loose with a sword on someone? ;D.
[laugh] [laugh]
That's true. You never know when the opportunity may arise! When I was living in FL, this teenage kid had a burgler in his house. Luckily, he was in martial arts and armed with a katana. [evil]
anyone have any experience with american kempo or kenpo karate?
just found out there is a school here too...
from what it looks like, it's like a hodge-podge of all the others?
Yeah, I do American Kenpo...of the other ones you're looking at it's probably closest to Kung-Fu. I've been doing it for 15+ years.
Quote from: Le Pirate on October 28, 2008, 05:38:03 PM
anyone have any experience with american kempo or kenpo karate?
just found out there is a school here too...
from what it looks like, it's like a hodge-podge of all the others?
Hehe, I did some Kenpo before I did Kung Fu. The teacher decided to show off his cool little keychain kubatan bar (it's a metal stick about 4" long on a keychain). So he's breaking boards on a solid table (boards laying flat on the table) and then one of them doesn't break, so what gives? The flesh on his hand. He ran the kubatan bar all the way into his hand to the bone I think. Had little chunks of meat stuck in the key ring. :-X
The teacher I had before him was better though. I can't say if it was 'American' Kenpo or what. Pretty much you're average Karate class as far as I can tell. IMO one of the quickest styles to learn how to hurt someone/ defend yourself. Also one of the most common to allow full contact (most Kung Fu styles I've seen don't). Just remember that the full contact in a classroom ain't the same kinda full contact on the street. Punching to the face, back, crotch are all fair in real life and quite effective... if done correctly.
Did Tae Kwon Do for about 8 years when I was younger, but I've had a few too many injuries from there.
Now I do Tai Chi here in Seattle at Embrace the Moon. The peaceful part really is there, it takes my full attention whenever I'm in class or practicing. The atmosphere there is great. It's kind of informal, sweat pants and a t-shirt, no titles... and Kim is a very good instructor. (There's a couple others there, too, but I've only had classes with Kim) It might not be viewed as practical, though technically it is if you know how to apply it, but that isn't the purpose of Tai Chi. You really do get a bit of a workout, but you really start to understand energy flows, balance, and teaching your body to move in new ways.
Oh yeah, and we get to play with swords, too. [beer]
http://www.embracethemoon.com (http://www.embracethemoon.com)
Quote from: Le Pirate on October 24, 2008, 06:03:48 PM
This might sound kinda silly, but other than getting into shape, I want something that can get my mind off of everything else.
That does not sound silly at all. The reality is, ANY one of these (and others) will do this. Just learning traditional boxing is very mentally consuming, as there is so much technique involved.
QuoteProblematically, these classes also tend to attract guys with a lot of tattoos wearing Tapout apparel.
These guys^^^ wash out pretty quickly, in my experience. They realize it's hard work, or they don't like actually getting punched in the face, or they don't like all the hard work. I've watched dozens come and go. Just check your ego at the front door, the door to the locker room, and again when you step on the mat...and you'll have a blast.
So I think I'm going to go try out the Aikido and the Kempo both....
I'm just waiting for the first of the month to get here. I get payed on the 1st (one time a month), and I'm not good at streching my spending allowance till the end [laugh]
Quote from: Sinister on October 30, 2008, 12:49:33 PM
These guys^^^ wash out pretty quickly, in my experience. They realize it's hard work, or they don't like actually getting punched in the face, or they don't like all the hard work. I've watched dozens come and go. Just check your ego at the front door, the door to the locker room, and again when you step on the mat...and you'll have a blast.
+1 They come and go, new faces show up and then go. But that just means youve been in it longer and take more advance stuff. None of them will be there.
Thought I'd give a little update.
I ended up going with the Tang soo, just because it was alot like I did when I was a kid. It also happend to have the least small children in the class (though it's still atleast half).
It was the only class that I instantly got a good vibe from. Judo was all small kids, and the other 2 schools I went to were all shaved headed MMA guys. There are lots of Air Force guys in Tang soo, so I get to spar with folks my own size...and they're not too SUPER INTENSE. Though it sounds like there is lots of turn over. My sparring partner from last night ships out to Iraq at the begining of the month.
So far though, it's a good class, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it, though I don't think I've ever done as many pushups as the last 4 for weeks [puke]
I loved pushups until I hurt my back. Loved Tae Kwon Do until I hurt my knee....
So far, Tai Chi is pretty hard on my knees, but that's because I'm still working on the proper posture.
And for my classes it's the opposite, almost all older people.. I'm only 24!
Quote from: Le Pirate on November 25, 2008, 11:57:16 AM
So far though, it's a good class, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it, though I don't think I've ever done as many pushups as the last 4 for weeks [puke]
Don't be a puss!! [cheeky]
What? Did you think you're still in BMTS?! 5 push-ups the first week..10 the second week..working your way up to 30 WHOLE push-ups by the end of 6 weeks?!
Push-ups are THE BEST single exercise! [thumbsup]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_arts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_arts)
ok, i'll stop being a jerk.. i did start wing chun kung fu classes when i was at university. it was interesting but, I wanna take krav magra classes now. [thumbsup]
Quote from: IZ on November 25, 2008, 12:36:21 PM
Don't be a puss!! [cheeky]
What? Did you think you're still in BMTS?! 5 push-ups the first week..10 the second week..working your way up to 30 WHOLE push-ups by the end of 6 weeks?!
Push-ups are THE BEST single exercise! [thumbsup]
Hey man...I took your advice in the get fit thread [cheeky]
I'm not doing 4000 a day like you...just 50 [laugh]
except on class nights. when it's about 200-300 by the end of the night....then my wimpy arms are sore the next day
Cool that you found a class you like. Regardless of style, getting a good instructor's so key. Not matter how 'hard core' the art is... if you can't learn from the instructor - what good is it.
Quote from: He Man on October 26, 2008, 06:02:58 PM
From what ive seen (they teach it where i take MT) its about 80% cheap shots to the eyes thoat and nuts. the super secret squirrel elite stuff about it is awesome, but most classes dont focus on that part of KM.
I used to teach Krav.. and yeah a lot of it is 'cheap shots'. It's a self defense form, and as such take a 'do what it takes' stance. So yeah, eye pokes, groin, hitting with objects, bites- all fair game.
Beyond the combative (the jargon for punching and kicking) some of the things KM does is work people up to be able to deal with stressed situations. Like anything, it starts slow, but in pretty rapid succession you've got people under a lot of duress and they are still able to perform - where before they would have locked up. A lot of people have never been hit/kicked/choked/tackled and as a result, their system is overwhelmed. For lack of a better analogy, part of the system is to acclimatize people to the jolts jars and shocks of a physical attack.
For the basic classes you learn a lot of 'hammer and screw driver' stuff - straight punches, elbows, knees, kicks etc etc (combatives) and a wide variety of self defenses. You start off with simple hands around the neck chokes and progress from there. They use a 'lego' (my term) sort of approach where they build derivations off a simple technique. IT makes for very fast learning. For example, 1st you learn standing front choke, next the attacker gets to choke AND push you, next choke, push AND then bash you into the wall. Elements you learn in item 1 are applied in situations 2 & 3 etc.
The weapon stuff *technically* comes later in the curriculum, but it's not uncommon for teachers to have a play day and break out the guns and knives with relatively new students.
And I've rambled on long enough - anyone wants to know more I'm a PM away
Im a black belt in Tae Kwon .357! 8)