Ducati Monster Forum

Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: LA on November 18, 2008, 06:12:48 PM

Title: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: LA on November 18, 2008, 06:12:48 PM
Somebody please splain to me how you hijack a 1080 foot ship with $100,000,000 worth of oil on board.  I just don't understand how anybody would put that kind of resource on the open seas without enough fire power to keep pirates or whatever you want to call them from getting on board and taking over.  You know the old story? â€" I have the “high” ground and will shoot you as you try to climb up the hill, or whatever.  If you don't ask really nicely to board my vessel before you try to board my vessel, I'll shoot you.

I am dying to know how a relatively small vessel could get to a vantage point that the perps  could board the vessel in the first place. I remember 30 years ago when sailboat captains in the Caribbean began to carry automatic weapons on board in order to ward off boarding from pirates.

Anybody  got a clue?
LA
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: the_Journeyman on November 18, 2008, 06:16:29 PM
I read an article in NatGeo and what they do is sneak up on the ship in the dark & use a grapling hook or similar device to board.  They're heavily armed with small automatic weapon (uzi's or similar) and simply overwhelm the crew with a use of force ~

JM
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on November 18, 2008, 06:22:20 PM
Ships like that don't have or need a large crew-maybe 25 guys or so on it. They were also out a considerable distance, making pirates in small boats unlikely.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: superjohn on November 18, 2008, 06:40:16 PM
These pirates suck. They don't even have parrots or eye patches.   [roll]
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: mitt on November 18, 2008, 07:11:34 PM
I have a 15' boat, 100' of rope, and a semi-auto .22 rifle, anyone up for a trip?  100M$ sounds pretty good.

;D

mitt
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: swampduc on November 18, 2008, 07:49:11 PM
Quote from: mitt on November 18, 2008, 07:11:34 PM
I have a 15' boat, 100' of rope, and a semi-auto .22 rifle, anyone up for a trip?  100M$ sounds pretty good.

;D

mitt
I'm in. I'll bring the eye patches. Aaaargh!
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on November 18, 2008, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: mitt on November 18, 2008, 07:11:34 PM
I have a 15' boat, 100' of rope, and a semi-auto .22 rifle, anyone up for a trip?  100M$ sounds pretty good.

;D

mitt

Sure, but FYI, I'd be happy with the 15' boat, so I'm just going to shoot you with your own rifle. That's the problem with pirates. No respect.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: NuTTs on November 19, 2008, 03:03:37 AM
Kaboom => http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7736885.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7736885.stm)   ;D [evil]
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Scottish on November 19, 2008, 07:29:12 AM
It was an Iranian vessel... so meh. Piracy is no joke but I giggled imagining Ahmajajanakmed's reaction... maybe some jumping up and down, and foot stomping. "Somalia has had no effective form of govt since '91 is in an islamic uprising"... well at least we don't have to worry about radicals from the middle east trying to take over the world as long as they are cuting each other knees out from under themselves.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Bick on November 19, 2008, 07:38:50 AM
Quote from: somebastid on November 18, 2008, 07:57:04 PM
Sure, but FYI, I'd be happy with the 15' boat, so I'm just going to shoot you with your own rifle.

Did you play a Power Ranger a few years ago?  [roll]


Oil prices are way down.  Don't these pirates keep up with the market?
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: swampduc on November 19, 2008, 08:17:39 AM
Do modern warships still have yardarms to string pirates up from? Prob the best way to deal with them.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Slide Panda on November 19, 2008, 09:18:06 AM
What usually happens is the pirates are on the ship in force before the crew knows what the hell is going on.  The Sirius Star is 1080' long - 1/5th of a mile with a crew of only 25 - making it really freakin' hard to defend.  As noted they usually attack at night , though this instance it was daylight.  Also as noted, they were well out to sea, so the crew wasn't really looking for small boats.

A cruise ship or two has fended off attacks with directed sound 'weapons' - perhaps the shippers need to start investing in this a bit more...
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: the_Journeyman on November 19, 2008, 09:32:42 AM
After reading the article in today's paper, I think we need to secretly man a tanker with a group of well-armed Marines and let 'em try to take that one!!!

JM
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Porsche Monkey on November 19, 2008, 10:02:34 AM
Quote from: mitt on November 18, 2008, 07:11:34 PM
I have a 15' boat, 100' of rope, and a semi-auto .22 rifle, anyone up for a trip?  100M$ sounds pretty good.

;D

mitt

Ive got a semi-auto .22 also.  Have several different magazines that go with it too, one of thems a 50 rounder.  I'm in.  I'll bring the beer.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: MikeZ on November 19, 2008, 11:00:31 AM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on November 19, 2008, 09:32:42 AM
After reading the article in today's paper, I think we need to secretly man a tanker with a group of well-armed Marines and let 'em try to take that one!!!

JM
Can't do that.
It's entrapment.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Scottish on November 19, 2008, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on November 19, 2008, 09:32:42 AM
After reading the article in today's paper, I think we need to secretly man a tanker with a group of well-armed Marines and let 'em try to take that one!!!

JM
hmmm.... was it a Clive Cusseler series that had that? A mercenary group that ran a large tanker that was a camo for basically a battleship?
Quote from: MikeZ on November 19, 2008, 11:00:31 AM
Can't do that.
It's entrapment.

As for that... if they ain't pirates they don't gotta worry now do they? You board a ship at sea you deserve whatever happens. Let God sort 'em out.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: the_Journeyman on November 19, 2008, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: MikeZ on November 19, 2008, 11:00:31 AM
Can't do that.
It's entrapment.


Only if they make specific efforts to lure them to that particular ship.  If they're simply manning it and pirates attack that particular ship, it's simply unfortunate for the pirates.  No more entrapment than the bait cars they use on theft rings or the police officer dressed like hooker catching people hiring hookers ~

JM
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Slide Panda on November 19, 2008, 11:56:31 AM
And who says the out Entrapment rules apply here?  I've got no clue really...

And there's been a number of instances in history where ships have been made to look unarmed as bait for attackers who found out that that particular ship wasn't what it seemed.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: the_Journeyman on November 19, 2008, 12:02:30 PM
I kinda didn't think it would matter if it was entrapment or not...  The pirates are obviously not overly concerned with what the law says  [laugh]

JM
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on November 19, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
Dead men tell no tales.


Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Triple J on November 19, 2008, 03:20:45 PM
Indian Navy is trying to do something.  [thumbsup]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008409194_appiracy.html (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008409194_appiracy.html)

...and why not be a pirate if you live in Somalia?  :P

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008410174_apafpirateboomtown.html (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008410174_apafpirateboomtown.html)

According to the 1st article, one major shipping line has already instructed it's 90 ships to bypass the Suez Canal and go around Africa instead to eliminate the pirate risk. This issue will likely come to a head if more ships stop using the Suez Canal. That's a lot of money being lost.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Slide Panda on November 19, 2008, 07:45:02 PM
Time for the Q Ship to make a come back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship)
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Kopfjäger on November 19, 2008, 08:10:28 PM
Some buddies of mine just got back from doing security work on a Cruise ship. They have been hit recently as well.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: the_Journeyman on November 20, 2008, 08:24:14 AM
Quote from: yuu on November 19, 2008, 07:45:02 PM
Time for the Q Ship to make a come back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship)

That's cool, and would be great to surprise pirates with! 

Quote from: kopfjager on November 19, 2008, 08:10:28 PM
Some buddies of mine just got back from doing security work on a Cruise ship. They have been hit recently as well.

I'd sign up for a cruise if I was gonna get the chance to man an anti-pirate gun for a few minutes  [evil]

JM
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: hbliam on November 20, 2008, 04:53:00 PM
Quote from: MikeZ on November 19, 2008, 11:00:31 AM
Can't do that.
It's entrapment.



Quote from: the_Journeyman on November 19, 2008, 11:30:59 AM
Only if they make specific efforts to lure them to that particular ship.  If they're simply manning it and pirates attack that particular ship, it's simply unfortunate for the pirates.  No more entrapment than the bait cars they use on theft rings or the police officer dressed like hooker catching people hiring hookers ~

JM

Wrong x2.

Entrapment is enticing someone to do something illegal that they normally wouldn't do. Pirates normally take over ships. Enticing them with a bait ship so they can be captured is called a sting not entrapment. Luring them to a paticular ship is simply a smart sting.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: squidwood on November 20, 2008, 07:11:14 PM
I worked on many tankers many years ago. The largest i  worked on was the Litiopa (Shell Tankers UK Ltd) and she was about the same size as the vlcc that was recently taken over by pirates.VLCC is a classification of tanker meaning very large crude carrier, not to be confused with ships like the Batilus which was an ULCC, ultra large crude carrier(500,000 tons plus)You can google pics of these ships and they readily come up.
When we left Kharg Island ,Iran we had orders to take our cargo to Pula Bukom in Singapore to discharge.To get there we had to go through the Malacca Straights, which was well known for Piracy.To counteract the pirate threat we had strict instructions on how to deal with them.We had lookouts 24/7 posted on various points on the deck and we had knives(to cut ropes,used by the pirates to climb up over the gunwhale) and pickaxe handles to clobber them with as well.We had roving patrols of three guys 24/7 to reinforce any other crew member that needed help.We also had the ships monitors(high pressure fire systems turned on ,and in the event of pirates making it past the crew members we were to turn the fire monitors on the pirates.
If you have ever used one of these things you would know just how much water and or foam they can put out at several hundred PSI.I was hit in the back with a jet from a monitor at 200 feet and it knocked me flat on my face..........you don't stand a chance against one of these things.
In my experience, ships that are taken by pirates have two things against them. The first is a totally inexperienced Master(Captain) and secondly a very poorly trained crew.
The goal is to keep the pirates from getting on board. Its easy enough to do if you are vigilant and do what you must to prevent them from climbing up the ropes. The least they will have to shin up a rope is 30 feet..........and its not easy.I have climbed 4 inch rope ladders 80 feet to reach the decks of supertankers when joining them or leaving them at sea to be dropped off into a small boat like the pirates use.

In this particular part of the world where maritime lawlessness is rife the UN needs to get involved to secure the merchant mariners lives. Remember merchant seafarers are civilians and carry no weapons on ships.
I would expect that most civilised countries would do their best to protect their citizens especially in this region.
There is a cure for maritime piracy its called the SBS the naval arm of the SAS .
sbs =special boat squadron.
I am not for violence but I am also not for being killed, taken hostage or robbed while at work.I spent many good years at sea and worked on different ships all over the world sailing thru both canals round the capes,in war zones, and foul (bad beyond belief) weather ,thru ice fields in the frozen north sea, to blistering heat in the Persian Gulf.I saw war, death, beauty , humility,met truly wonderful people, saw great things and lived a full life in a short time,I would not have changed a thing and am glad for the experience!
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: Porsche Monkey on November 20, 2008, 08:31:27 PM
That was beautiful. Think I shed a tear.
Title: Re: Piracy on the high seas
Post by: the_Journeyman on November 21, 2008, 05:45:55 AM
Quote from: hbliam on November 20, 2008, 04:53:00 PM

Wrong x2.

Entrapment is enticing someone to do something illegal that they normally wouldn't do. Pirates normally take over ships. Enticing them with a bait ship so they can be captured is called a sting not entrapment. Luring them to a paticular ship is simply a smart sting.


Thanks for the clarification, I knew it wasn't entrapment but not sure how to define it.  Either way, lets sting the crap out of these pirates  [thumbsup]

JM