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Title: which petty? Post by: bmroxm5 on November 29, 2008, 10:54:40 PM hey guys, quick question, which type of petrol do we all use?
the handbook recommends 95octane? the previous owner of my bike says he used 91 reason being with the 95 apparently you need to rev it more to clean out the engine but he didn't rev it much so he thought the 91 went better. so yeh, would just like to get an indication on peoples thoughts of what type of petrol they use. thanks! (yes i did try the 'search' feature as well... nothing really came up) Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Dockstrada on November 29, 2008, 11:36:15 PM Hey Bm most 2 valve rider are using the 91 by memory any thing ells tends to mess with the plug's.
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bazz20 on November 29, 2008, 11:36:43 PM read your owners manual [thumbsup]
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: dragonworld. on November 30, 2008, 12:05:48 AM injected 95, and carbed 91
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Jukie on November 30, 2008, 12:46:26 AM both Me and Betty use 95
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: mattyvas on November 30, 2008, 12:54:38 AM Used 95 first week I got mine and fouled 2 sets of plugs.
91 since never had a problem and it rev's hard enough for a 620. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Jukie on November 30, 2008, 12:57:11 AM never had that issue Matty
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: mattyvas on November 30, 2008, 01:07:04 AM funny that it'd it.
I used 98 first tank I ever put in and it fouled with-in hours. Then went to 95 and it took a day or so. Have only used 91 since then. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Jukie on November 30, 2008, 01:10:34 AM well we never use 98 at all, only ever 95. don't know if that might have started the problem you had.
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: loony888 on November 30, 2008, 01:22:08 AM i use vortex 98, though i had brain fade the other day and put 95 in the S4R, it ran ok, but it doesn't like 91 at all.
paul. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Jukie on November 30, 2008, 01:27:11 AM that is what we use vortex whe we can. (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_1_209.gif)
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: DUCMONROB on November 30, 2008, 01:42:52 AM I use 91 even though the handbook says 95 or higher.
Found the high octain fuel is not liked by my bike. Same as you Matty! [thumbsup] Rob Title: Re: which petty? Post by: mattyvas on November 30, 2008, 02:26:20 AM Really strange how so many different bikes like different kinda juice.
Do you think it has something to do with the Italian made thingy? Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Big T on November 30, 2008, 02:28:18 AM 07 S4RT with DP ECU & Open Airbox and Open Zards.....
91 Is okay if nothing else available and runs okay. 95 Caltex Vortex preferred and runs great round town and on the open road. 98 Okay on the open road when twisting the grip but splutters a bit round town. So I use 95 petty 95% of the time.... [thumbsup] Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Betty on November 30, 2008, 02:56:43 AM I was gonna suggest that maybe the higher octane and riding around town may not be compatible.
As Jukie said we pretty much always use 95 (both 2V, FI bikes) but we avoid traffic .... and anyone that has ridden with me knows that I don't rev too high and that hasn't proved to be a problem. Maybe its the colour that is the problem? Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bazz20 on November 30, 2008, 03:21:53 AM s2r 1000 run 98 why stops surging at low revs and gains 40 kays to a tank
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Two dogs on November 30, 2008, 03:46:22 AM Hmm this is an interesting thread , the dealer where I purchase my bike told me to use the lower octane standard un leaded
but stressed to never !!! use SHELL as it contains to much benzine (fouls the plugs)same with BP unless really no other option when running out. Any one else heard this ???? Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Betty on November 30, 2008, 03:57:32 AM When we picked up our ikes we were told to never use the Shell 98 - at that time known as Optimax I think ... don't know if the change to V-Power relates to a change in composition though?
We were told to use 95, 91 if you have gone bush and have no other option. For completeness: somebody posted (on the DML I think) that they received a response from Ducati Australia telling them not to use ethanol blends. Won't be long now before Big T and Ellingly roll out their spreadsheets and give you all sorts fuel economy type data too ;D Title: Re: which petty? Post by: heatherp on November 30, 2008, 05:09:48 AM Have 2005 Monster 1000s. Use Shell Vpower cos I live in the country and can't get anything else better and it runs fine. Do heaps of country miles. Ride in Melbourne often (after doing the country miles).
Bike likes Mobil Premium unleaded when I can get it. Doesn't mind Vortex. Hates BP Ultimate or any 91 octane fuel (runs very sluggish). Have been told by 2 different dealers never, ever to use petrol with Ethanol in it. Haven't had any plug problems. Because of the country riding I suppose. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: CairnsDuc on November 30, 2008, 01:16:01 PM I also read about using 91 - 95 in the 2 valve monsters, then 1 day I suffered brainfade and put in a tank of BP ultimate, and did that from then on (seemed like a good Idea at the time), recently switched back to to normal 91 and have found the bike seems to prefer it.
The bike feels to be much better all round when running the 91, so I'll stick with it. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bmroxm5 on November 30, 2008, 01:46:40 PM read your owners manual [thumbsup] yeh i read the owners manual.. which said 95. but from what most people have said, looks like 91 is the better option when hanging around town so i think i'll stick to that. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 01:48:40 PM For completeness: somebody posted (on the DML I think) that they received a response from Ducati Australia telling them not to use ethanol blends. Yep, that was me. There is a listing of manufacturers/vehicles on the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (?) website, the list saying whether those vehicles could/could not use the ethanol blend. Ducati was not on that list so I informed NFI about it and I also asked them if Duc's are suitable to use the e5/e10 blend. And NO was the answer. They didn't know that they were not on the FCAI list and were going to fix it. As of last week, they are still not on that list. [roll] And there is news that ethanol blend is being rolled out to more service stations, replacing regular unleaded. The BP around the corner from my joint does NOT have regular unleaded! >:( And I heard with the Shell 98 is that it has too much detergents in it, which supposedly 'cleans' your engine as you drive/ride it. [roll] Ah, I use 91. Everything else f*cks my plugs. ;) Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 01:50:07 PM read your owners manual [thumbsup] He said he read his owners manual you goose! [laugh] Title: Re: which petty? Post by: dragonworld. on November 30, 2008, 02:15:06 PM Mmmmmm, nuthin' worse than a F#*%$d plug ?? ;D [cheeky] [evil]
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bmroxm5 on November 30, 2008, 02:46:50 PM Mmmmmm, nuthin' worse than a F#*%$d plug ?? ;D [cheeky] [evil] soo... whats a f###'d plug? something to do with the spark plug i assume? and how do you know if its f'd? and what do you do when you realise its f'd? Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bazz20 on November 30, 2008, 02:48:18 PM He said he read his owners manual you goose! (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16_5_23.gif)[laugh] yes i know super , but if your manual says 95 run 95 if it wont run 95 you have two other issues , low compression or fueling problems , the octane rating is to do with compression ratios , the higher the ratio the higher the octane needed Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Six95 on November 30, 2008, 03:05:32 PM I've only ever used 98 and when it's not available I use 95. Runs perfectly fine, does not miss a beat
My manual says 95+, so that's what I am following. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 03:09:33 PM (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16_5_23.gif) yes i know super , but if your manual says 95 run 95 if it wont run 95 you have two other issues , low compression or fueling problems , the octane rating is to do with compression ratios , the higher the ratio the higher the octane needed Well, when I purchased my bike back in 2005, I read the manual, and it did say 95. I asked the blokes at Frasers in Sydney & they all said, don't run 95, only use 91, 95 will foul your plugs. And where I get my bike serviced at Gowanlochs, they all say use 91. That manual is printed for the European market and the fuel they use there is of a lower quality than the fuel we use here. If you've tweaked with your engine, fine, you may need to use a higher octane. I don't think I had low compression when I brought my bike new. ;) Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 03:12:09 PM soo... whats a f###'d plug? something to do with the spark plug i assume? and how do you know if its f'd? and what do you do when you realise its f'd? You'll know, it just happened to me when I ran 95 in it because nothing else was available. It doesn't idle well, it jerks, backfires, hesitates and stops running. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bazz20 on November 30, 2008, 03:40:17 PM im not going to argue with you super but go with what works best but a lot of problem stems from set up, our ducati dealer asks what type of fuel you want to run and tune to that fuel , as for fuel European fuel is far better than anything we have here , like i said if your having problems it more to do with set up , by useing a lower octane fuel than you should causes pre ignition and pinging , and that my friend is not hear say thats fact , and im not having a go at you super im just pointing my view as a wrench and the fact all the fi bikes around here run fine on 95 -98 [thumbsup]
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 04:01:39 PM im not going to argue with you super but go with what works best but a lot of problem stems from set up, our ducati dealer asks what type of fuel you want to run and tune to that fuel , as for fuel European fuel is far better than anything we have here , like i said if your having problems it more to do with set up , by useing a lower octane fuel than you should causes pre ignition and pinging , and that my friend is not hear say thats fact , and im not having a go at you super im just pointing my view as a wrench and the fact all the fi bikes around here run fine on 95 -98 [thumbsup] Fair enough. [thumbsup] I just don't know why you would pay more for fuel when you don't have to. Government gets enough money from us as it is. >:( Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 04:55:45 PM (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16_5_23.gif) yes i know super , but if your manual says 95 run 95 if it wont run 95 you have two other issues , low compression or fueling problems , the octane rating is to do with compression ratios , the higher the ratio the higher the octane needed Well there you go. Looked at my little Ducati chart and the 1000 has a lower compression ratio than the 620. 10:1 for the 1000 vs 10.5:1 for the 620. How does that grab ya? ;) Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bazz20 on November 30, 2008, 06:07:56 PM [clap] you have finnally seen the light anything over 9.5 to 1 should run 95 or higher (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_2.gif)
Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 07:26:34 PM [clap] you have finnally seen the light anything over 9.5 to 1 should run 95 or higher (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_2.gif) What? ??? I have a 620, 10.5:1 compression ratio, I run 91. You have a 1000, 10.0:1 compression ratio, you run 98. The 620 has higher comp than a 1000. Or are my eyes deceiving me. :o I just don't get your logic. ??? The OP has a 620, nearly everyone here who has a 620 has told him to run on 91, all except for Jukie whose bike runs well on 95. But Jukie only runs on two speeds, 0 & Flat Out! Even Ducmonrob has a 1000 and he runs 91. :P Horses for courses I suppose, if you want to give more money to the petrol companies and government when you don't need to, go right ahead, knock yourself out. ;) Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on November 30, 2008, 07:39:06 PM And to add further, this is from Wikipedia, a reliable source of info [roll]:
Quote The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation (engine knocking) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines. High-performance engines typically have higher compression ratios and are therefore more prone to detonation, so they require higher octane fuel. A lower-performance engine will not generally perform better with high-octane fuel, since the compression ratio is fixed by the engine design. I don't think the 620 is considered 'high performance' Quote In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane rating, shown on the pump, is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, is 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and some even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON). The manual may be printed for the States because of there crap fuel. 95 is really 91 over there. [roll] Quote Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies. Activation energy is the amount of energy necessary to start a chemical reaction. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energies, it is less likely that a given compression will cause detonation. It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings explode less easily and can therefore be used in more powerful engines. However, an explosion is not desired in an internal combustion engine. An explosion will cause the pressure in the cylinder to rise far beyond the cylinder's design limits, before the force of the expanding gases can be absorbed by the piston traveling downward. This actually reduces power output, because much of the energy of combustion is absorbed as strain and heat in parts of the engine, rather than being converted to torque at the crankshaft. A fuel with a higher octane rating can be run at a higher compression ratio without detonating. Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more power. Engine power is a function of the fuel as well as the engine design and is related to octane rating of the fuel. Power is limited by the maximum amount of fuel-air mixture that can be forced into the combustion chamber. When the throttle is partially open, only a small fraction of the total available power is produced because the manifold is operating at pressures far below atmospheric. In this case, the octane requirement is far lower than when the throttle is opened fully and the manifold pressure increases to atmospheric pressure, or higher in the case of supercharged or turbocharged engines. Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high maximum compression and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline. A common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot produce more power. However, burning fuel with a lower octane rating than required by the engine often reduces power output and efficiency one way or another. If the engine begins to detonate (knock), that reduces power and efficiency for the reasons stated above. Many modern car engines feature a knock sensor – a small piezoelectric microphone which detects knock and then sends a signal to the engine control unit to retard the ignition timing. Retarding the ignition timing reduces the tendency to detonate, but also reduces power output and fuel efficiency. Most fuel stations have two storage tanks (even those offering 3 or 4 octane levels), and you are given a mixture of the higher and lower octane fuel. Purchasing premium simply means more fuel from the higher octane tank. The detergents in the fuel are the same, Premium does not "burn cleaner." I'll shut up now. :P Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Betty on November 30, 2008, 08:39:46 PM But Jukie only runs on two speeds, 0 & Flat Out! Its known as a digital riding style ;D Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Betty on November 30, 2008, 09:18:09 PM The manual may be printed for the States because of there crap fuel. 95 is really 91 over there. [roll] I think you have that one around the wrong way ... if it was printed for the states, you would actually need to increase the octane rating to match our standard ... that is, printed as 95 for America would be significantly more in Australia so 98+ would be the recommendation. Your source also lists 95 as 'regular' in Europe and we use the same rating system apparently. So, again, if we are using the same rating system 95+ would be accurate here. If our fuel is crap by comparison you should probably increase our local octane rating again to compensate therefore 95+. But I love this quote the most: Quote Most fuel stations have two storage tanks (even those offering 3 or 4 octane levels), and you are given a mixture of the higher and lower octane fuel. Purchasing premium simply means more fuel from the higher octane tank. So the whole argument is pointless ... apparently it is the same fuel anyway ??? Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Betty on November 30, 2008, 09:27:19 PM Obviously I am far from an expert but those wiki quotes from Super also would suggest that a learner legal (restricted) 620 should prefer the lower octane:
Quote When the throttle is partially open, only a small fraction of the total available power is produced because the manifold is operating at pressures far below atmospheric. In this case, the octane requirement is far lower than when the throttle is opened fully and the manifold pressure increases to atmospheric pressure, or higher in the case of supercharged or turbocharged engines. It's all far too complicated for me, but I will try and simplify: . Put fuel in . If bike runs OK then the fuel is probably OK . If bike doesn't run OK, try a different fuel and repeat complicated analysis procedure Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Big T on November 30, 2008, 10:29:59 PM . Put fuel in . If bike runs OK then the fuel is probably OK . If bike doesn't run OK, try a different fuel and repeat complicated analysis procedure Works for me tooooo Betty......... Is what I did...... [thumbsup] Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bazz20 on December 01, 2008, 12:43:07 AM yes with out sounding like a smart ass there is a couple of flaws in supers final quote
all road going vehicles have now been yousing a standard measurement the world over now called r o n, research octane number our fuel is not alowed to be mixed coming out of different fuel tanks , thats highly e legal , what is written on the pump thats what that fuel is he dosent class a 620 as high performance , im shaw ducati would beg too differ most f i bikes can be tuned to idle and run on all octane ratings , but you will lose performance final note do what i did and be honest with your self and see how many kay out of a tank you get on the same road at the speed on diferrent fuels , it cost me 30 cents more to fill up a tank of 98 to 95 but i get 40 kays more to a tank so 30 cent more works out a savings ps betty your dead right , with any engine that not turbo or supercharged the air is at a constant pressure as you would have learnt while doing your diving ticket , boyals law that air pressure is 14.7 psi so to put things simply engines do not suck in air they create a negitve vacum so air forces its self in that why turbos help to force more air in more air the more fuel you can burn hence more power [thumbsup] Title: Re: which petty? Post by: monstermick58 on December 01, 2008, 02:20:24 AM . Put fuel in . If bike runs OK then the fuel is probably OK . If bike doesn't run OK, try a different fuel and repeat complicated analysis procedure Yup! Lets see, lets give it six months, say around May, and we will all ask the same question again Mmick (being a dick) Title: Re: which petty? Post by: DUCMONROB on December 01, 2008, 02:52:19 AM Yep, that was me. There is a listing of manufacturers/vehicles on the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (?) website, the list saying whether those vehicles could/could not use the ethanol blend. Ducati was not on that list so I informed NFI about it and I also asked them if Duc's are suitable to use the e5/e10 blend. And NO was the answer. They didn't know that they were not on the FCAI list and were going to fix it. As of last week, they are still not on that list. [roll] And there is news that ethanol blend is being rolled out to more service stations, replacing regular unleaded. The BP around the corner from my joint does NOT have regular unleaded! >:( I have been told the ethanol causes the new plastic tanks to swell. It seems this is a good thing for extra capacity but no good for your paint work. Rob Title: Re: which petty? Post by: bmroxm5 on December 01, 2008, 03:00:43 PM Obviously I am far from an expert but those wiki quotes from Super also would suggest that a learner legal (restricted) 620 should prefer the lower octane: It's all far too complicated for me, but I will try and simplify: . Put fuel in . If bike runs OK then the fuel is probably OK . If bike doesn't run OK, try a different fuel and repeat complicated analysis procedure excellent. thats what i think i'll try. just don't want to err.. 'foul the plugs' in the process. But i will stick to 91 for now [thumbsup] Thanks everyone. Feel free to keep bantering over it though [coffee] Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Betty on December 01, 2008, 06:34:45 PM excellent. thats what i think i'll try. just don't want to err.. 'foul the plugs' in the process. But i will stick to 91 for now [thumbsup] Thanks everyone. Feel free to keep bantering over it though [coffee] Geez whatever you do, don't listen to me - I'm full of shit ... and have absolutely no mechanical knowledge. Title: Re: which petty? Post by: Super T.I.B on December 01, 2008, 07:35:31 PM Put diesel in it and see what happens.
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