Ducati Monster Forum

Don't know if any of you have seen this, but thought I would post it up seeing as how a few of us are dabbling around with different suspension set-ups.

http://www.onthethrottle.tv//pages/page/suspension/207 (http://www.onthethrottle.tv//pages/page/suspension/207)

This second one might seem a bit elementary, but good info none-the-less.

http://www.crstuning.com/downloads/Suspension3.pdf (http://www.crstuning.com/downloads/Suspension3.pdf)

i don't have a suspension set-up, per se; it's really just a smattering of springy bits.  perhaps this would be helpful.

This is probably a better link:

http://www.crstuning.com/tuning_guide.htm (http://www.crstuning.com/tuning_guide.htm)

I bought and read (a few times) "sportbike suspension tuning" and it's still confusing.

I suppose some hands-on time would help it make sense, but, that's not gonna happen  [roll] I can't even install my shit, much less tune it

What are you doing this Saturday?  We are going to put all my clutch stuff on, why don't you bring your bike down?  Assuming that is all good and tasty ( [bacon]) with his Macness.

if they don't make me work? [roll]

I gots nothing to adjust, though...

Well, it's not like they can actually make you work.  Not like they could Tristan or myself.


And I was thinking more along the lines of installing your forks, and then adjusting them.  ;)

Or on second though, just sell them to me.   ;D

didn't we have this convo before? they CAN. they did last weekend, in fact. and the month of october.

I suppose I could go to the union about it, since they're not always giving me jobs based on my qual/pos'n... whatever. the money's good, at least. everything else can be secondary.

and why would you need the showas? aren't you looking to out your sport?

He might or might not. I think he's worse than I am, if that's even possible.

ah.

Oh no, the Sport is a work in progress.  Why else would I be looking to buy some forged Marchesini's for it?  ;)

It'd be the Daytona that leaves if I move either of them for an 848.

ah...

Nice articles. I've been looking for something to help me make some adjustments to my rear. ;D

Teddy, what fork setup are you putting on?

I've thought about the gixxer fork swap but maybe something else would be better.

KP

i know where you might could find some nice adjustable showas...

 [popcorn]

adjustable showas in a box at the 'rents place.

and a spankin' new penske monoshock in it's own box...

they've been in them boxes since, make the beast with two backs, july!  :-X

I seriously could not handle that. way too impatient. After work today, i'm workin on the landscaping with wife and I remember that I have this awesome old school sprinkler I bought a few years back, nice brass and aluminum thing. I go dig the thing out, plug it in and....... water shooting out of the end. caps gone. I should have put it away until I could fix it right.    not gonna happen ;D
I wasted the next 1/2 hour tryin to find something to plug it with, can't stop til i do.  ACE is one min from the house. It's a sickness. [laugh]

and I'm lazy.

.........nice.........(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn327/supakpow/yesnod-2.gif)

it can be.

not always though.

PERVE!!   ;)


Yep, but I would prefer to not have to do a triple swap just yet.  Who knows if I would want to go with a 30mm offset or not?  ;)

that's what my wife tells me.

and that's reason number, oh, 16338 why I don't have one  ;D

the wife laughed at that. [laugh]

at least someone finds me amusing

*le sigh*

there was going to be something humorous here, but, unfortunately, i was in charge of the typing, and this is all i could come up with.

Glad it's not just me.  ;)

Old thread I know, but it's mine so...

http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/73/40/ (http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/73/40/)

this should be fun to play with once i get my bike out of the shop

Yep. Although you might only be able to adjust the front forks a bit. Unless you weigh 220 to 240 lbs you won't get anywhere with the rear. Sad to say but it's true.  To make the rear work anything like it really should you will need to replace the shock with something like an Ohlins or Penske that is sprung for your weight.  Don't believe me?  We'll find a stretch of road and then take your bike down and back. Then take mine over the same route. You'll SEE.

I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!!!

I've read that it's pretty much the same with the standard Streetfighter...

i weigh 210 so maybe i can get in the ball park. however i would love to give your 848 a try if the offer still stands... that is once i get mine out of the shop

I need to adjust the rear suspension on my 750.  Figure I might as well do it while it's in my shop.  I weigh 220lbs, so...it's a bit soft.  These videos shed some light on the subject, to me suspension tuning seems like voodoo.  The one thing doing myself that makes me nervous on the bike...

Rick and I have been working on suspension a lot lately.  We can help you tune yours some time if you want.  Just FYI: Rick is more adept than I am.   [thumbsup]

I could got for a little of that action too...;D

I warn you guys that suspension work is a slippery slope.

It sure is.  You will turn wrenches on your and be happy.  Then  Rick (aka The Don) will have you ride his bike.  Then you will be writing checks to Dan Kyle...

I think I know what you're getting at, but what I'm after is just setting my bike up for my weight, etc...if it turns out that it's no better than when it was delivered, then so be it as I'll not be opting for a new a new spring and an Ohlins this and that... ;D

Just you wait.  Who was it that said they were not interested in an aftermarket exhaust for a streetfighter?    8)

Did I say that?... [roll]...if I did it was only because the $1800 Termi slip-ons were the only ones available at the time...

We can set your basics as good as the bike will allow. Then, after that's done,  you decide how badly you want any further work or not. Easy peasy.

That's what I be lookin' for... ;D

Same here.

will 2 6packs be enough while we play with my suspension or should i just get a case to be safe?

sounds like there's a suspension party or something...

2 six packs will be enough considering that they have to be at least Bitburger, Sierra Nevada Glissade, or Guinness.  Also any grunt work of adjusting rear spring tension will be the owner's labor although the proper tools will be provided.  I make absolutely no guarantee that sag specs will be able to be brought into spec for the owner/rider using stock Ducati parts. The superbikes and Streetfighters have somewhat of a chance but as for the 750 I believe we might be able to adjust some rear sag, possibly some damping but little cheap hope for the front unless an adjustable front fork was installed. Different options can be discussed of course.

What, no Boddingtons on that list?  [drink]

Yeah, the front forks are the stock non-adjustable units.  Which, I'm sure after 17k miles are more than overdue for new oil...but at least the seals don't appear to be leaking.  Just getting the rear set-up properly would be a big improvement, imho.

IIRC, Jebus had some adjustable forks sitting around his garage...

Oh reeeealy?  [evil]  What from?  I hear the S*R ones are a direct bolt in...

I'm not sure what they are from, but you can ask him.  El Tristo has them.

And yes, the forks from an S?R will fit fine, so will the ones from a ST.  Actually, what year is your 750?  If it is one of the old old ones there might be an issue with caliper mounting points...

It's a 2000...single caliper/rotor up front.

Didn't we install those on his bike? Unless he had another set? Which come to think of it he might have. Wasn't there some issue with the two sets that led us to favor one over the other? 

Plus, I have a stock rear shock from a Monster 900 that's still in good shape. It might be beefier than the stock 750. I dunno. I suppose we could always check part numbers between the two bikes to see if they use the same shock.

Yep, he had an extra set laying around.  Trey was looking at buying them, but then decided to start spending all his money on flying lessons instead.  Kids...   [roll]

More something than anything else I suspect.  Did you ever get your steering damper installed?

Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned something. 

And I seem to recall someone giving Anne a bit of grief for not having installed said damper yet.  ;)

lol, no  [roll]

i think this saturday i might actually be free. next week my bro is getting married, the following i'll be in LV for track school, the week after that we're flying back.

n for the record, he said he wouldn't buy more parts until its installed.  :P

Well for goodness sake bring that thing down here and let's throw it on.  BTW, I am super envious that you will be running the S1000RR around the track. So take notes, OK?

what time u gonna be at the shop? i can come down with it.

From somewhere around 10:30 am onward to about 1:30PM. Weather permitting. I was supposed to bring in a Hypermotard to get a safety check. It's raining right now on the windward side & there's been too much wine, beer, steaks and chicken and veggies and the stupid motard needs a battery charge cause it hasn't been seriously ridden in months. Don'cha know that I wait unitl midnight to fire the sucker up and it won't crank. My bike starts of course, and if all else fails, I'll bring it in. Got to find a charger for the HM in the AM before I get breakfast. If you'll knew how long it took to write this in decipherable english you would be still laughing. I will be there, no matter, so come on down.

Shame.  I've got a couple of battery tenders laying around the garage over here.  I could have brought one out for the bargain basement price of a nice steak.   ;D

Thanks for your help today Rick, the bike felt much cushier on the airport viaduct on the way home.

Here's that  suspension setup video that I was telling you about...

http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/73/40/ (http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/73/40/)

Here's another one that I forgot I had that addresses sag only...

Setting Your Motorcycle's Suspension Sag With Keith Code (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBlqVx4mWUw#)


 

Like I said in another thread, no worries. Glad it worked out so far. Interesting that the rear of the Streetfighter is as adjustable as it is compared to the superbikes. Front end, well..... I'm going to check if the forks are all the same.

The HyperMotard started and ran just fine once it got a good charge on the battery. I didn't take it out on the road though due to rainy weather. Maybe next weekend?

Hopefully the weather and the HyperM owner will co-operate next weekend and we can properly check the suspension.  It'll be a small challenge to hoist the rear of the bike but I think I can see a way to do it.  The front is traveling 3 & 3/4 inches right now compared to 3" on the 848. It might only look short on the Hyper due to the length of the sliders.

Yes.  Just don't get your hopes set too high. Whatever sag changes we could make to the 848 will only have minimal effect. You can make some noticeable changes with damping adjustments though.

thank you.
anything would be better, after 3 months or riding the monster the insanely hard ride of the 848 is killing me.

Well, it is a SBK you know.  ;)

i keep telling my self that and it worked when i just got it and the novelty of it had me blinded to anything that was less then idea with it. but it feels like the rear tire is hopping up with every  little blemish in the road surface... very unconfidence inspiring when in a corner. if i could get the rear tire to travel  a lil bit rather then catapult me off the seat i would be happy. i am not expecting miracles or even a huge difference just something a lil bit better.

Well, the particular issue that you are describing will most likely require a call to Mr. Dan Kyle to completely sort out. 

OK, you notice that trait with the rear end and it bothers you. Good, in a way. Some people don't notice and some do but decide to just live with it or can't afford the modifications. The bike is sprung for two up riding or high speed use on an uber smooth track (and even that is debatable). You can try to take some of the harshness out by easing off the damping but you will still be fighting the spring tension. You can dial back some spring tension pre-load but these are only small band-aid measures that help slightly but don't really solve the main problem.

Of all the changes I've made to my bike replacing the rear shock was by far the most significant. More so than the exhaust and ECU. It changes how the bike rides, steers and even the feeling of power delivery to rear wheel. Once the back wheel stops bouncing around you gain better traction.

Just because it's a Superbike is no excuse.  The gixxer 750 I had is a Superbike yet the suspension it had was an eye opener and, in fact, once adjusted properly, set me on this course of understanding and working with suspension. Actually, I got started down that path working on my old Monster and then fighting with a 999 to make it steer and handle better. The 750 showed me what could be and how it should be. Unfortunately Ducati could, but doesn't, install a suspension that can work for both street and track. It is a mystery.

So, Ben is correct. To really start to make your bike work well you will need an Ohlins, Penske or RaceTech(?) rear shock that is properly sprung for you. I would also advise getting an adjustable ride height link.  You don't have to go crazy like I did with everything else though.

ok so my "Progressive linkage with fully adjustable Showa monoshock" is not really fully adjustable. or at least not adjustable enough to make any difference. so of three you mentioned what one do you suggest? as far as bang for the buck... and ummm please forgive the noob question but what do you mean "sprung for me"  and also i was told... (almost embarrassed to admit that  i believed it) but the sales guy (BILL) that sold me my bike said that my ducati cant be lowered and that no one makes a lowering link for it... adjustable ride height link... is that the same as a lowering link... shit i really need to learn bike anatomy lingo.

I humbly ask that you educate me , and learn me the ways of Italian super bikes



so umm who is this MR. Dan Kyle you speak of?

 :o :o :o  one of most well know guys in the business.

http://www.kyleusa.com/About_Us.html (http://www.kyleusa.com/About_Us.html)

different springs are rated for different weights. so when you go to order you springs, they will ask you how much you weigh. this is probably what you're looking for.

http://www.shop.kyleusa.com/product.sc?productId=85&categoryId=46 (http://www.shop.kyleusa.com/product.sc?productId=85&categoryId=46)

The Ohlins DU515 might be the best bang for the buck, average new price about $750.00.    The Penske shock (8987 series) which would have the same damping adjustments runs around $1100.00 but I don't know if they make one for an 848. (They do, I checked.) Race Tech seems to only make shocks for Yamahas  at this time.

Ride height link, lowering link --- all the same.  Sato Racing makes these for Ducati and I think there are a couple other manufacturers too. I put a Sato on my bike at the same time I installed the DU515.

When I replaced the front forks the nose of the bike dropped about 7 to 10 mm.  Since the rear link was set to stock length this was making the bike turn in real easy but I found it oversteering a bit (always diving deeper into the corner) and I would have to correct it back out to the line I wanted. So I lowered the rear by 7mm.  Immediately noticable as in much more neutral steering. As you can tell from this the overall height of the bike has been lowered. So much for the statement that it can't be done but it's not dropping it an inch or more like what is done to some bikes.

Dan Kyle is a name that will show up on your credit card statements with big numbers out to the right.   [cheeky]

I need to get on this and set the Daytona up one of these days...

Yep.   [thumbsup]

You've got to get in line 'cause there's a few folks ahead of you... ;D

Unfortunately, Rick has been busy with $$$ producing endeavors lately...

I wish it were so but it's more like a labor of friendship.

I can help with suspension adjustments on a couple of bikes this coming Sat. July 10, if anyone is interested. Post up or PM me.

yes please, and at what time?

I'm interested, but have a track cleanup day on Sat and will be late, if I make it down at all...

Priorities young man; get 'em straight!  ;)

11am and after (to a point). I have to do an oil & filter change on a 560SL and then send it out for wheel alignment afterwards (grumble, grumble ...... separate story). But then it's all bikes. The preload won't be too bad but you will have to do some riding to get the damping set.

You are pretty much set. Unless you want me to check how the damping is working.  [evil]

yep...

And off Rick goes on the SF.   [moto] [thumbsup]

Bumpy freeways & off/on ramps here we come.

I seem to remember one decently winding road that wasn't all that far from BME...  Just sayin'...

  [evil]

It's not particularly well suited for getting good adjustment settings.  You need higher speeds and/or longer sustained corners to get a good feel for how things are working.

I will definitely take up your offer if it still stands...I'm really mechanically declined/reclined? when it comes to bikes and would definitely appreciate the help!

The offer still stands.

as of 2am it was raining really bad from eva all the way into town. if weather stays like this for the morning/afternoon im not going to make it. i dont think ill be able to handle getting drenched again and spending the whole day wet. but if the sun is out ill be there.

I'm watching the weather too. Nasty stuff offshore of Kaneohe this morning but that looks like it's clearing. I have to be at the shop no matter what. It's just a question of whether I take the 848 or the car.

It's trying to clear where I'm at by the stadium...I anticipate heading down to the shop after my track work is done, probably later than usual and just to hang out for awhile...

Chancing it with the 848.

The weather down here looks fugly...not raining yet but fugly

im just not man enough to chance it today, and after being soaked almost all day yesterday i am just going to pregnant dog out and stay home. rick I appreciate you taking the time to help and i hope i can have a rain check for later.

Same here...thanks for the offer but between the weather and the fam today looks like a no go...on a completely different subject I might need your shop's services for my wife's mini, it needs a service2...will try to schedule it for next Friday...

no offense, but u guys sound like a bunch of pussies!  ;D

lol, i was notorious for riding around in the rain at one time. ppl used to feel so sorry for my gsxr since it was always covered in dirt, so much that they would wash it.

the worse part is i was a bit sick today and had to listen to the GF all make the beast with two backsing day long " i told you not to go out" and "see thats what you get for riding in the rain" been sucking down the dayquil and theraflu i hope its just a 24 hour thing and i can make tomorrows ride... weather permitting

 [laugh] [laugh]

Tell 'em how it is Anne! 

 ;D

Emile wrung out the 848 a good bit yesterday and noted that in one or two high stress points, if you will, that there was a bit of shake in the front. Not that it was bad, or anything, but that it just plain happened at all given the overall setup. I've also noticed that at times and so has Ben but it only happens under certain conditions. Most of the time it's just beauty.  Might need a steering damper but in lieu of that I went one click firmer on the compression and the rebound. I didn't get to ride it yet after the reset but you can really feel that one click change just doing a static check. Hmmm. I'll be riding with wrenches in my pockets next weekend.

Up until recently if a 848/1098/1198 rider wanted to change their suspension they were pretty much stuck with having to go the Ohlins route.  I was on the Motowheels website the other day and noticed they are offering products from RaceTech, including replacement springs for rear shocks and front forks. I believe the spring for the rear shock was in the neighborhood of $120 to $130. Definitely worth checking out.

Something I need to work on...to see if a new spring would be beneficial, I guess it good start would be to determine the rate of the stock spring...

For the way any of us ride if we can get a good sag adjustment then I'd say we are good to go from there. I can look at the notes but I seem to remember that we did OK with the Steerfighter rear shock but the front forks were a tad on the stiff side.

I think you are correct Sir... ;D

thinking about a Hyperpro Combi kit (fork & shock springs) for the SF, anyone have any experience with progressive springs?

http://www.hyperpro.com/ (http://www.hyperpro.com/)

what's your opinion on this set up Rick?

Depends on your riding style I guess.  When I was discussing the front fork set up with the guys at Dan Kyle they were asking what type of riding I did most. Was I cruising around, you know ride down to Starbucks and hang out for a while and then cruise back home? Or was I pushing it hard and riding like I stole it? If it was just cruising then they recommended the linear spring. If I was racing then they recommended the progressive spring. I had to tell them I would cruise to Starbucks and hang out for a while but then go out & ride it as hard as I could sometimes.  [laugh]

We settled on the progressive springs for the front. Never had that type of conversation regarding the rear spring. I like them just fine. Ben never liked progressive springing in the mountain bikes he rode but this might be another element and he never had any complaint about the front end of the 848, at least not that he expressed to me. Emile didn't have any negative comment either but he also liked the front of the 1198 just fine too and I don't think that bike is equipped with progressive springs but then I really don't know 100% for sure one way or the other on that part.

I didn't see Streetfighter options listed on their website.

The only real reason to change anything though is if there is a real problem or a hindrance to the way the bike is responding.

We could and should do the nylock tie strap test to the front forks and see just how much travel is occurring while you ride. That would tell us more about how well it is set for you.

Bellissimoto carries the Hyperpros, I emailed them and said there is a SF application...it may be the ones for the 1098/1198, as I understand they use the same Showa forks.

I'll do an initial ziptie test on my ride this morning...appreciate your assist in working this thing out... [thumbsup]