So we have a couple mechanics on here... I'm curious about your take on induction cleaning.
I had someone recommend it o me, so I looked into it a bit. It seems the opinions are quite varied...
Never heard of it.
It's easy...slowly pour a half can of Sea Foam into the throttle body while holding the throttle at about 1/4. You clean your induction system of deposits and support te growth of my eventual inheritance. ;D
Quote from: ZLTFUL on December 02, 2008, 11:28:21 AM
It's easy...slowly pour a half can of Sea Foam into the throttle body while holding the throttle at about 1/4. You clean your induction system of deposits and support te growth of my eventual inheritance. ;D
And have the fire brigade show up because the neighbors think you've set something on fire... Knowing how much smoke I can make with my M750, I can't imagine the amount coming from a car!
JM
This process can be beneficial on older/high mileage injected cars since it cleans both injectors and the intake system, but should be done when diagnosis shows need, not as PM. More often than not it is consumer rip off.
the only time I run induction flushes is when cars have a rough start or flood when cold (a big problem in v6 volkswagens/ audis and some 1.8t's that aren't driven hard enough in the winter)
don't just grab the seafoam crap, that doesn't work. it has to be done right, find some where that uses BG or Wurth products, and have it done there.
a good flush will include an injector cleaning (pressurized tank goes to fuel rail, car runs off cleaner) and a manifold/ throttle body cleaning..
if your looking for just a little valve cleaning, get a can of BG 44k and throw that in with a full tank. I run one at the start of every winter in my car and have never had misfire problems.
+1 to the above. For some reason the throttle bodies on 1.8s gum up really easily. Only done when trying to diagnose a fault or another concern.
Wurth products really are the best [thumbsup]
Quote from: acalles on December 02, 2008, 11:45:25 AM
the only time I run induction flushes is when cars have a rough start or flood when cold (a big problem in v6 volkswagens/ audis and some 1.8t's that aren't driven hard enough in the winter)
don't just grab the seafoam crap, that doesn't work. it has to be done right, find some where that uses BG or Wurth products, and have it done there.
a good flush will include an injector cleaning (pressurized tank goes to fuel rail, car runs off cleaner) and a manifold/ throttle body cleaning..
if your looking for just a little valve cleaning, get a can of BG 44k and throw that in with a full tank. I run one at the start of every winter in my car and have never had misfire problems.
Wow...Sea Foam crap eh? I know literally hundreds f automotive, marine, and commercial mechanics who swear by it. And outside of the fact that my great gradfather invented the "crap", use it regularly not only as a fuel stabilizer, a cleaning solution, an injector and carb cleaner, a deposit buster, degreaser, oil additive, et al. I am also an ASE certified heavy diesel mechanic. My brother, both ASE certified mechanics, several of their friends and acquaintances as well as Evinrude Outboards all recommend and use it.
Ironically, the primary chemical compounds that are in this "crap" as you call it, are found in similar proportions in that BG "crap" you use. Compare both products' MSDS sheets and learn something new. Considering Sea Foam has been around and used since the 40s vs. BG which has been around since the 60s, I will stick with a product that has more than enough positives going for it over the "crap" you recommend.
And if it seems like I am taing your comment personal, it's because I am as you just blatantly insulted my family. [roll]
Quote from: ZLTFUL on December 02, 2008, 11:57:56 AM
Wow...Sea Foam crap eh? I know literally hundreds f automotive, marine, and commercial mechanics who swear by it. And outside of the fact that my great gradfather invented the "crap", use it regularly not only as a fuel stabilizer, a cleaning solution, an injector and carb cleaner, a deposit buster, degreaser, oil additive, et al. I am also an ASE certified heavy diesel mechanic. My brother, both ASE certified mechanics, several of their friends and acquaintances as well as Evinrude Outboards all recommend and use it.
Ironically, the primary chemical compounds that are in this "crap" as you call it, are found in similar proportions in that BG "crap" you use. Compare both products' MSDS sheets and learn something new. Considering Sea Foam has been around and used since the 40s vs. BG which has been around since the 60s, I will stick with a product that has more than enough positives going for it over the "crap" you recommend.
And if it seems like I am taing your comment personal, it's because I am as you just blatantly insulted my family. [roll]
whoa whoa whoa.
sorry, I mean no disrespect, only that sticking a vacuum line into a container of liquids with out proper experience and training is dangerous. It can be an advanced procedure and if done incorrectly can cause engine damage. I say its crap because its marketed for anyone to use and I've had a come in on the hook hydro locked from similar products, I don't have any experience to its effectiveness, only to problems I've seen arise due to misuse. Not to mention, if the vehicle isn't warmed up fully, damn near any product used is going to be ineffective. most people don't know that, they just start the car, stick the tube in and walk away because they don't like the smell of the smoke, then go back when it stops smoking and shut the car off (heres how the hydrolock happened, what was left puddled in the #4 manifold runner and when they started the car it locked up) they had no clue it should have been warm and off idle when running it, and only done in very small amounts.
I'm just tired of juan de dumbass doing insane damage to their vehicles trying to fix a problem they didn't have to begin with or because they think some mechanic is trying to rip them off, then complaining because it just cost them a bunch of money to get it back where its supposed to be.
the BG stuff I'm talking about isn't 44k, its 210 and will take the paint off anything you get a drop on, its only availlible to people who are trained with it, and without the correct equipment is definatly dangerous stuff and powerful stuff (as I've seen it first hand melt a cheap fuel injection cleaning apparatus).
I hope you can accept my apology, as I was not properly informed to the history of the product, nor its effectiveness and definatlly didn't mean to blatantly insult your family, next time I get a hard starting misfiring passat in here I'll give it a try.
(BTW 6+ years in vw/audi service, vw expert cert, vw electrical expert, vw driveability expert cert.)
Quote from: acalles on December 02, 2008, 01:14:17 PM
whoa whoa whoa.
sorry, I mean no disrespect,
I hope you can accept my apology,
That was very cool! [clap]
This reminds me of the early days of jet transportation, crushed walnut shells were used to scour the compressor airfoils clean, but when engines with air cooled vanes and blades in the turbine started being manufactured this practice was stopped. The problem being that the crushed shells tended to plug up the cooling passages to the turbine, resulting in turbine failures due to overheating.
Quote from: MendoDave on December 02, 2008, 01:27:11 PM
This reminds me of the early days of jet transportation, crushed walnut shells were used to scour the compressor airfoils clean, but when engines with air cooled vanes and blades in the turbine started being manufactured this practice was stopped. The problem being that the crushed shells tended to plug up the cooling passages to the turbine, resulting in turbine failures due to overheating.
Also used for decarbonizing by BMW and GM in the late '80s
Quote from: acalles on December 02, 2008, 01:14:17 PM
whoa whoa whoa.
sorry, I mean no disrespect, only that sticking a vacuum line into a container of liquids with out proper experience and training is dangerous. It can be an advanced procedure and if done incorrectly can cause engine damage. I say its crap because its marketed for anyone to use and I've had a come in on the hook hydro locked from similar products, I don't have any experience to its effectiveness, only to problems I've seen arise due to misuse. Not to mention, if the vehicle isn't warmed up fully, damn near any product used is going to be ineffective. most people don't know that, they just start the car, stick the tube in and walk away because they don't like the smell of the smoke, then go back when it stops smoking and shut the car off (heres how the hydrolock happened, what was left puddled in the #4 manifold runner and when they started the car it locked up) they had no clue it should have been warm and off idle when running it, and only done in very small amounts.
I'm just tired of juan de dumbass doing insane damage to their vehicles trying to fix a problem they didn't have to begin with or because they think some mechanic is trying to rip them off, then complaining because it just cost them a bunch of money to get it back where its supposed to be.
the BG stuff I'm talking about isn't 44k, its 210 and will take the paint off anything you get a drop on, its only availlible to people who are trained with it, and without the correct equipment is definatly dangerous stuff and powerful stuff (as I've seen it first hand melt a cheap fuel injection cleaning apparatus).
I hope you can accept my apology, as I was not properly informed to the history of the product, nor its effectiveness and definatlly didn't mean to blatantly insult your family, next time I get a hard starting misfiring passat in here I'll give it a try.
(BTW 6+ years in vw/audi service, vw expert cert, vw electrical expert, vw driveability expert cert.)
Apology accepted. I *AM* very protective of this product. Their legal record speaks for itself (1 Caifornia violation in over 60 years of existance and that was a $500 spill fine) as they have never been sued or implied in a lawsuit in their history as the cause of an issue. Not many products on the market can say that.
I have used the BG 210 product and it's very similar to the commercial grade Sea Foam only available in 55 gallon drums. Both of them work VERY well in removing 30 year old carbon deposits from pistons. [thumbsup]
I agree, too many folks just see something on TV or hear something from a shadetree mechanic and try it. I never recommend ANYTHING I haven't tried and had good experiences with on my own vehicles.
No need to compare credentials. 8 years of wrenching tanks, trucks, dozers, etc in the Army taught me plenty of modesty. ;D
Thanks for the info, guys!
I'm driving a '99 Trans Am with a little under 58k miles on it. Between the time I made this post, and the time I checked it again (now) I did take apart most of the air intake and cleaned out the MAF and thoroughly cleaned the throttle body. I don't know if it made a power difference, but it sure is smoother!
My wife's 2004 CRV had a TPS go bad. Result, a $1000 throttle body since the sensor is embedded in it. The mechanics said a cleaning could have prevented it - I don't really believe it, but who really knows. It is a relatively common problem on CRV's around 50,000 miles.
mitt
Quote from: mitt on December 02, 2008, 05:08:06 PM
The mechanics said a cleaning could have prevented it - I don't really believe it, but who really knows. mitt
That sounds bunk to me. A TPS is a pentiometer, changes voltage when the butterfly moves. How cleaning the intake would have prevented that is beyond be. TPS's go out because of electronic failure...
Now I understand what you were asking. BG makes some great stuff for that. As far as I'm concerned they are the leader in the industry.
Oh and I've used seafoam before too with good results.
I've used GM-branded induction cleaner. Didn't do anything, but then again, that wasn't the problem to begin with. And it did absolutely nothing to remove the heavy carbon deposits from our Mercedes 6. How do I know? Because we yanked the head off to replace the gaskets a little while after, and it looked like a hardened volcano inside. Never tried Seafoam, mainly because I've never "needed" it. The last time I "cleaned" my heads, I took them off and rebuilt them. That's the way I do it, rather than putting my faith in any miracle product.
Quote from: NAKID on December 02, 2008, 05:34:31 PM
That sounds bunk to me. A TPS is a pentiometer, changes voltage when the butterfly moves. How cleaning the intake would have prevented that is beyond be. TPS's go out because of electronic failure...
It is bunk. A dirty throttle body can cause two problems. One is the throttle being held slightly open when it should be closed, the other is wrong air mass input because the hot wire is coated with gunk. If you do this yourself be careful around the TPS, solvent can kill it. The hot wire is also delicate.
Usually an air mass meter is further up the intake by the air filter. Havent ever seen them as part of the throttle body. The throttle position sensor is on the outside of the throttle body and should not be affected while cleaning the throttle body. If the car has an Idle air control valve, that could be mounted in the throttle body.