Ducati Monster Forum

http://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews/view/motogp_dorna_announce_new_600cc_details/6090.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews/view/motogp_dorna_announce_new_600cc_details/6090.html)

Very interesting. It looks like they want prototypes only, but what companies will drop the coin in these tough times?

Too many rules IMO

no air valves, rpm limits, very limited fuel work, 17" wheels (what?!), spec ECU, no TC/fancy electronics, no carbon brakes, no fancy materials

so basically the only thing that's "prototype" is the chassis.

...it's wss with gp frames and no electronics.

That was my thought.

watch someone like Hyosung come in an kick some arse with some weird mule to develop for the street....

personally...I think they should have gone to 400cc 4 strokes and use that to develop a new breed of RC29's and GS400's and other lil street bikes of the like...

Did you see the claiming rule for engines?!? 

20K euro....?   :o :o :o

..."Teams refusing to sell when presented with a valid request will be disqualified."

completely bizarre rule.  or does this happen elsewhere and i'm not aware of it?

I dunno who else does it (WERA might?), but it's often bandied about as a way of enforcement.  AFM was tossing around the idea last year during its rule changing process.  I've only heard of it applied to a complete bike. 

In this form, it ensures that people don't spend too much $ on an engine (no ones gonna spend $100k on an engine that their competitor can buy for $20k) and also ensure that if one team has new super-duper technology, that the rest of the paddock has access to it. It creates kinda weird incentives.

ama has (had?) a claiming rule.

mladin's forks got claimed at loudon in '99... there was accusations that they were sabotaged before the yosh guys turned 'em over.

duhamel's '99 600 supersport daytona winning bike (yes, the whole bike) was claimed. showa wasn't too happy about it because they had a $200k development shock on the bike at the time. i seem to remember that the claiming cost was msrp + $1500 or something like that.

this is an example of the verbiage in the (old 750cc) ama superbike rules:



7. Superbike Component Claiming Rules - 750cc Four Cylinders, 900cc Three Cylinders and 1000cc Twin Cylinders
(a) The following components of 750cc four-cylinder, 900cc three-cylinder and 1000cc twin-cylinder Superbikes are subject to claiming by competitors or the AMA at the prices listed when used in Superbike competition:

Fuel injection throttle body assemblies and electronic control module:
Twin cylinders - $2,500
Four cylinders - $3,500
Four-cylinder carburetor assembly - $3,500

Fork assemblies - $7,500
Shock absorber assembly - $2,500

(b) Claims will be accepted only from riders who competed in the same final event as the rider whose equipment is being claimed.
(c) Claim form and cash or a certified check must be submitted to the Chief Steward or Tech Inspector within 30 minutes of the posting of results.
(d) Once a claim is made, it may not be withdrawn.
(e) Competitors or teams cannot claim their own equipment.
(f) Should there be more than one claim for the same equipment, a drawing will be held to determine the successful claimant.
(g) Upon notice, the rider whose equipment is being claimed must present the motorcycle for impound at tech inspection.
(h) The owner of the claimed equipment must then accept the fee and deliver the specified components.
(i) An eligible claimant is permitted only one successful claim per season.
(j) Teams or individual competitors who have had a component claimed are not subject to an additional claim for a period of four meets within a season.

Who got em?  Casey?   :P

[laugh]

claimed by LCR in '99.  put on a bike in '06.



and yeah, i had no idea about this.  i get it, kinda makes sense.  but.. weird.

I guess you have a point, but the devil is in the details. What exactly is a "spec" ECU for a company that doesn't make a 600cc bike? Also since really only the big 4 make 600cc scoots everyone else who enters will be running prototypes by definition... Did I misinterpret the rules?

I'm surprised that the only concession they made for cylinder number was the RPM limit though.

in the big boy class, they did it by weight (more cylinders had a higher minimum weight). limiting the revs is probably a more cost effective solution.

From the RRW article:

"6.2 Minimum Total Weight: 135kg for 4-cylinder
130kg for 3-cylinder
125kg for 2-cylinder"

I can't imagine anyone would run a twin for a 10kg advantage, or even a triple for 5kg.

that's what i get for skimming the article...  ;D

in the 2-stroke days, team roberts tried taking advantage of the lower minimum weight of the 3-cyl w/ the proton-KR. honda also ran a nsr500v (twin) in addition to their nsr500 v4.

That's probably close to being right, though there's nothing that precludes manufacturers from using prototype motors, but with the rules I'm not sure what advantage they could have. Speed had a good article with some comparisons to Supersport and MotoGP

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-new-moto2-600s-could-debut-in-spain-2009/ (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-new-moto2-600s-could-debut-in-spain-2009/)

They also stated that since the limit is on RPM's and not linear piston velocity, that a long stroke 4 cylinder that had the capability to rev to 16,000 would have an advantage.

maybe there are more recent threads about this.. i didn't look very hard.

anyway, 47 teams/91 riders have applied to race Moto2   :o

http://www.crash.net/MotoGP/News/147624/1/47_teams_apply_for_moto2_entry.html (http://www.crash.net/MotoGP/News/147624/1/47_teams_apply_for_moto2_entry.html)
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/May/090530b981wsa0.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/May/090530b981wsa0.htm)

This is gunna be interesting. 

http://www.crash.net/MotoGP/News/148024/1/moto2_matches_bautista_race_lap_record.html (http://www.crash.net/MotoGP/News/148024/1/moto2_matches_bautista_race_lap_record.html)

that's crazy.  It will be only a short time till all the mfg's are using 4 strokes, just like the 500cc to 1000cc shift.

mitt

It's gonna be even faster than the 500cc 2strk /990cc 4strk switch.  There was a year (2002?) where the 990s ran with the smokers.  Next year is *supposed* to be like that for Moto2, but nearly every team that registered for Moto2 is running the 600cc.  Of something like 90 entries, there were only 2 or so smokers.  So much 2010 being a transition year.

Edit:  I derby'd.  gm2 posted the links above. 

like, say, 2011....?   [cheeky]

That is mandatory right?  I figure there will be a lot of early adopters like there was in the 1000cc.

smart ass  ;D

mitt

Yeah, 2010 they can run either 2 stroke or 4 stroke.  2011 is 4 stroke only. 

FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix - Moto2 / 250cc 2010 World Championship announcement -


The Selection Committee comprising delegates from the FIM, Dorna and IRTA met on the 11th June to consider applications from teams wishing to participate in the Moto2 class in 2010. It was decided to provisionally offer entries in this class to 27 teams (41 riders). A further 10 teams were placed on a reserve list and, regrettably, it was necessary to refuse applications from 10 teams. The teams provisionally accepted will have until the Portuguese Grand Prix to confirm the details of their entry including the team structure, machines to be used and riders contracted. Decisions on the teams accepted will be made in Estoril based on this information. Due to the overwhelming interest in this new class and the quality of the initial applications it is the intention of FIM, Dorna and IRTA to accept an entry significantly larger than the current 250cc class.

How long will it be until one of these can qualify fast enough to get on the big bikes' grid?   [popcorn]

I think that's not too likely, but it'd sure make me laugh.  :)