http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=16364.msg287128#msg287128 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=16364.msg287128#msg287128)
Ok, so I may or MAY NOT be on a kick where I can't stop acquiring old shitty musical equipment and repairing it to good use, but that's none of your concern ;D
I picked up a $60 Rogers drum kit on craigslist (or as I like to call it "make the beast with two backsing money pit craigslist") and it needs a bit of TLC. The bottom drum head on the snare is obliterated and the little tensioned metal thing that sits across the bottom of said drum has one broken wire. The cymbals sound like trashcan lids on sticks (including the high hat cymbals) and I need a new kick pedal. I bought it so that I could upgrade gradually and not have to dump $600 all at once into a kit that may or may not have whatever I want. Question 1:
I've been browsing around on various music supply sites and I can't really figure out what kind of head I need for the bottom of the snare drum. I did find a piccolo snare on sale for $40, but I'm not sure if that's the kind of sound I want (don't really have any local drum stores I could go to try out gear). All the drum heads I've found seem be ambiguous with exception to size. Do I just buy whatever head, as long as the size is right?
2: The toms and bass drum sorely need dampeners so should I actually invest in those shitty looking little rings or should I just slap some tape/foam on the underside of the batter head?
3: I've been planning on buying a double kick pedal, is this one of those products where I should buy Ludwig, Pearl, etc, or just go with a $99 special? I also saw one with a snare clutch on the left pedal, does this mean that I could incorporate the second bass pedal with the snare? That seems a bit ridiculous.
4: There seem to be a lot of good cymbal combo kits made by most of the major brands, does anyone have any recommendations? I know what brands a couple of my fav bands play, but I don't have enough experience to tell which one would sound better live/studio/garage and why.
I don't intend to gig and may not even look for people to jam with for a while. I've just wanted a set for years, so I pulled the trigger. Sigh, just another toy in the stable. I know a couple of you out there have to be stick nuts....
1. Don't worry about the single broken wire on the "snares" across the bottom of the snare drum. Just clip it off. If the rest are OK, then you should be fine. If not, buy a new set of snares...they should be pretty cheap.
An example: http://www.zzounds.com/item--FATFCS
1A. You need a bottom snare head. It is an extremely thin clear head. I've never used these guys (I buy local)...but here's what you need. Don't hit it with a stick, except lightly to tune it. It'll dent easy.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--REMSA0114 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--REMSA0114)
2. Don't buy the foam rings...they suck IMO. Just duct tape some small toilet paper squares on the upper edge of the top heads. Play with the size and amount of tp/tape until you get the sound you want. After that you can put them on the underside of the head if you want. Low quality sets usually sound better with more muffling. [cheeky]
3. For double kick pedals I'd get a good one. Personally I like the DW ones...but I haven't played on them all. They're pricey. I have played on a shitty one (Ludwig I think)...and it sucked. I'd skip the double pedal all together if I couldn't afford a nice one...that's me though.
4. I like Zildjian cymbals...especially A-Customs. It's been a while since I bought a new cymbal though, so there may be better ones out there...A-Customs may not even be made anymore. ??? I'd shy away from cymbal kits and just go to a store and bang on them to find which ones I like. Hard to tell until you hear them. Again...that's me though. I won't buy cymbals without hearing them.
5. Don't expect a $60 Rogers set to sound like something you hear on the radio or CDs...it won't. There is no substitute for a quality set. That said...have fun and beat the shit out of it! ;D [thumbsup]
I know nothing about drums other than a little bit on how to tune them. Don't play 'em... never have, never will. But, as a recording engineer and guitarist that is more often than not stuck w/ a drummer that has a shitty sounding kit, let me just say this...
Learn to tune those make the beast with two backsers!! Me love you long time!! :-*
Drum Tuning Bible:
http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/ (http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/)
Also, an old drummer of mine has a set of Rogers that are worth a shitload of cash. I think his snare alone is worth something like $1500-$2K. But they're old. Made in the 60's, IIRC.
Quote from: Timmy Tucker on December 16, 2008, 03:54:36 PM
Also, an old drummer of mine has a set of Rogers that are worth a shitload of cash. I think his snare alone is worth something like $1500-$2K. But they're old. Made in the 60's, IIRC.
Some of the old kits are friggin' awesome. Same goes for the cymbals. You wouldn't expect it, but my High School had one of the best sounding ride cymbals ever. I
really wanted to take it home. [evil]
Quote from: Triple J on December 16, 2008, 04:08:08 PM
Some of the old kits are friggin' awesome. Same goes for the cymbals. You wouldn't expect it, but my High School had one of the best sounding ride cymbals ever. I really wanted to take it home. [evil]
Actually, my high school jazz band had the same thing happen. Ty used some old Sabian for years and the director decided to get a new ride and turn the old on into a sizzler. We played a few practices and then decided to turn the new one in to the sizzler instead and keep the old :).
Like I said, I have no delusions of grandeur, but I'm a sound freak and I like to make the best of what I have (which means not having toms that resonate for days).
Another snare question. I think the snare is one of the most important parts of the kit so I'm kinda particular about the sound I get, but not sure what kind of snare drum produces what sound. Old 311 and a lot of reggae have a kind of ring to the snare note, like the head is resonating more than it should (which I like the sharpness of the note, just not the tone) whereas a lot of jazz drum they (this is just my ear talking, correct me if I'm wrong) leave the snares looser on the bottom to create kind of a rasping effect that lends well to softer beats. A lot of rock outfits, however, have a tight and snappy crack to them (short of a marching snare) but at the same time don't ring or resonate like the setup I mentioned earlier. Is it the head/tuning that makes the difference in sound? Should I upgrade from the stock snare head while I do the lower?? Need input.
Update: I found a shop here in town that deals in at least a small amount of drums so I think I'll give them a go for the cymbals. Should they have a lower snare head in stock?
Scratch the double kick then, would you buy a moderately priced single? I refuse to believe there's that much difference between products when they're little more than a pedal, a bearing, a chain, a stick and a ball. Simple physics.
Thanks for the tuner, Timmy. I was going to double check the notes as soon as I picked up a snare head. Scary, but mildly entertaining at the same time.
Quote from: Jarvicious on December 16, 2008, 09:34:37 PM
Another snare question. I think the snare is one of the most important parts of the kit so I'm kinda particular about the sound I get, but not sure what kind of snare drum produces what sound. Old 311 and a lot of reggae have a kind of ring to the snare note, like the head is resonating more than it should (which I like the sharpness of the note, just not the tone) whereas a lot of jazz drum they (this is just my ear talking, correct me if I'm wrong) leave the snares looser on the bottom to create kind of a rasping effect that lends well to softer beats. A lot of rock outfits, however, have a tight and snappy crack to them (short of a marching snare) but at the same time don't ring or resonate like the setup I mentioned earlier. Is it the head/tuning that makes the difference in sound? Should I upgrade from the stock snare head while I do the lower?? Need input.
Update: I found a shop here in town that deals in at least a small amount of drums so I think I'll give them a go for the cymbals. Should they have a lower snare head in stock?
Scratch the double kick then, would you buy a moderately priced single? I refuse to believe there's that much difference between products when they're little more than a pedal, a bearing, a chain, a stick and a ball. Simple physics.
Snare drum sound has to do with both the tuning and the drum design. The tighter, sharper, crisper sounding snares which resonate very little are typically picollo snares. I general, this means the drum itself isn't very thick (or deep). Deeper snares will have a deeper sound, and sound more like a drum rather than a crisp pop...if that makes sense. The drum body material also makes a difference, whether it is some type of wood or steel. Wood tend to be warmer, while steel tend to be more ringy. Hard to describe some of this. [cheeky] You can also play with the amount of muffling you put on the top head, and how tight the snares are across the bottom head. Loose snares will give you more of the sizzle sound....sloppy IMO.
I always tune the bottom and top heads to the same tone. I was told to do that by an instructor years ago and it seems to work. I also prefer picollo snares, as I like a very crisp and sharp sound, with no snare sizzle or drum ringing. Much like a marching snare, but a tad softer. It's all preference though. Basically just play around with everything until you're happy. It can take quite a while to get a snare sound you're happy with. I'm not sure I ever really achieved it! [laugh]
Any shop that sells heads will have bottom snare heads. They're standard. For top snare heads I like the white coated Remo heads...like the Emporer or Ambassador. For tom and bass heads I like clear Remo Pinstripes.
There is a huge differene in pedals. The mechanisms are all the same in general, but they all feel very different. There are also different drives, belt or chain. Chain is the way to go IMO. Personally I like the DW pedals...chain drive with a very light chain, so they are fast and light. All depends on $$ though. For your situation just go for a mid-priced one with a chain drive and you should be fine I would think.
Double pedals are even more critical due to the length of the linkage on the left pedal. Lighter is crucial in a double pedal.
Here is the double pedal I had. Friggin' sweet! Also, friggin' expensive.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/DW-5002AD3-Accelerator-Double-Pedal-102087301-i1137321.gc (http://www.guitarcenter.com/DW-5002AD3-Accelerator-Double-Pedal-102087301-i1137321.gc)
Here are a couple singles that looks resaonably priced.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/DW-4000P-Chain-and-Sprocket-Single-Bass-Drum-Pedal-448954-i1140934.gc (http://www.guitarcenter.com/DW-4000P-Chain-and-Sprocket-Single-Bass-Drum-Pedal-448954-i1140934.gc)
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Pearl-P120P-PowerShifter-Bass-Drum-Pedal-102549003-i1140629.gc (http://www.guitarcenter.com/Pearl-P120P-PowerShifter-Bass-Drum-Pedal-102549003-i1140629.gc)
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Tama-HP200-Iron-Cobra-Jr--Pedal-with-Footplate-101069870-i1140961.gc (http://www.guitarcenter.com/Tama-HP200-Iron-Cobra-Jr--Pedal-with-Footplate-101069870-i1140961.gc)