It's not a big enough project to make a big-picture difference, financially. Do I take the project & hold my nose? Heart says no way!! Wallet says take it, fool.
Economy sucks.
Take the money, and don't run red lights.
If you don't someone else will. :-\
Might as well take the money...turing it down doesn't mean they won't get installed.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 18, 2008, 07:28:19 PM
Take the money, and don't run red lights.
I don't run red lights, and I rarely even speed, but that's not the point. The project itself is of a personal/design nature - has nothing to do with the cameras... I just don't believe in having cameras everywhere, would never considering making a living off something I don't believe in, and feel like I would be doing so in a round-about way.
Sometimes it pays to listen to your inner voice.
Quote from: DucDucDave on December 18, 2008, 07:58:40 PM
I don't run red lights, and I rarely even speed, but that's not the point. The project itself is of a personal/design nature - has nothing to do with the cameras... I just don't believe in having cameras everywhere, would never considering making a living off something I don't believe in, and feel like I would be doing so in a round-about way.
Just think of it as taking their money. ;)
Take the money.
Then kick 'em in the nuts!
i would be looking for a job every month if i quit every time we had a client that made something against my morals...
in the beginning of my career, i tried that tactic.
the owner pulled me to the side and told me if i didn't want to do it, he'd find someone who would. :-\
to make yourself feel better about it, do some charity work for a non-profit.
good luck!
Yep. I guess I'm not promoting traffic cameras by simply taking the project. Other than the nature of his business, he seems like a nice guy. If he wants me to do it, I will. Better than being overly conscientious and broke.
Quote from: DucDucDave on December 18, 2008, 07:58:40 PM
I don't run red lights, and I rarely even speed, but that's not the point. The project itself is of a personal/design nature - has nothing to do with the cameras... I just don't believe in having cameras everywhere, would never considering making a living off something I don't believe in, and feel like I would be doing so in a round-about way.
So which is it? Never or not? You seem to be considering it right now. :)
If you feel that strongly against the issue (which has proven to make some intersections safer) then you can't take the job. If you do take the job then you obviously aren't as concerned with the issue as you would like to think you are.
design it.
and make sure you design in someway for all of us to beat them(bad glare or something) [evil]
when your done, make sure you post up here so we don't get tickets.
Quote from: Le Pirate on December 19, 2008, 09:27:36 AM
design it.
and make sure you design in someway for all of us to beat them(bad glare or something) [evil]
when your done, make sure you post up here so we don't get tickets.
Perfect solution!
Quote from: howie on December 18, 2008, 09:58:17 PM
Sometimes it pays to listen to your inner voice.
sometimes it pays even more to ignore that voice ;D
I hate those things and everything they represent, but take the money Dave...
Quote from: hbliam on December 19, 2008, 08:55:44 AM
So which is it? Never or not? You seem to be considering it right now. :)
If you feel that strongly against the issue (which has proven to make some intersections safer) then you can't take the job. If you do take the job then you obviously aren't as concerned with the issue as you would like to think you are.
Quote from: Le Pirate on December 19, 2008, 09:27:36 AM
design it.
and make sure you design in someway for all of us to beat them(bad glare or something) [evil]
I am taking the project. My rationalization is that the project
has nothing to do with the guy's business -- he just needs some cabinetry and interior design services at his new home.
As for making the intersections safer - HA! Ban alcohol. Raise the minimum driving age to 25. Impose a maximum driving age of 65. Make all intersections 4-way stops. Oh wait - none of those things generate revenue. A few years ago, the brilliant people of Phoenix approved an additional tax to "put 300 more cops on the street, add bus pull-outs...". Know what we got? Some sections of Hwy 51 and the I-10 have speed cameras approximately 1 mile apart for 3-4 miles. Now, the powers that be are complaining that traffic has slowed down to the point that the cameras aren't paying for themselves. Safer intersections, my ass.
I love when people post up issues from their personal life on the Internet, ask for opinions, and then bash the responses. :)
Why don't we just drop it.
Ask the guy who makes the cameras if I can have my $341 back. >:(
Quote from: trouble on December 19, 2008, 08:53:17 PM
Ask the guy who makes the cameras if I can have my $341 back. >:(
Have you considered stopping on red? :P
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 19, 2008, 08:56:48 PM
Have you considered stopping on red? :P
Where's the finger smiley?????
I'm too busy on the phone and internet while driving to worry about the lights.
8)
Whats wrong with traffic enforcement cameras?
If you don't break the law you have nothing to fear.
take the money
seduce his wife
burn his house down
Quote from: Capo on December 20, 2008, 05:06:29 AM
Whats wrong with traffic enforcement cameras?
If you don't break the law you have nothing to fear.
when a women panic stops on a yellow light because she didn't want to get another "red light camera ticket" and I run into the back of her....that's what's wrong with them.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on December 20, 2008, 09:20:47 PM
when a women panic stops on a yellow light because she didn't want to get another "red light camera ticket" and I run into the back of her....that's what's wrong with them.
<lawyer>
So......you admit to the court that you are aware of your tailgating habit, Mr. Maximus?"
</lawyer>
#1 take the job
#2 design them to fail
#3 exploit that design flaw to get out of tickets
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 20, 2008, 09:24:11 PM
<lawyer>
So......you admit to the court that you are aware of your tailgating habit, Mr. Maximus?"
</lawyer>
no.
thankfully I was at a low enough speed to avoid serious injury.
my pristine 996SPS was a total loss, however.
and I think you guys are all missing the point of DDDave's involvement. He sells cabinets. The guy who wants to buy cabinets is the evil camera guy.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on December 20, 2008, 09:47:12 PM
no.
thankfully I was at a low enough speed to avoid serious injury.
my pristine 996SPS was a total loss, however.
and I think you guys are all missing the point of DDDave's involvement. He sells cabinets. The guy who wants to buy cabinets is the evil camera guy.
So? Anything can be looked at as evil.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on December 20, 2008, 09:47:12 PM
and I think you guys are all missing the point of DDDave's involvement. He sells cabinets. The guy who wants to buy cabinets is the evil camera guy.
He's the one that turned it into a moral question. I thought he was going to be doing something to do with the cameras. Making cabinets for a guy involved in a business you don't care for? Unrelated IMO.
Regarding the lady and the yellow and you on a motorcycle. A: Yeah, she was probably an idiot. B: Your on a moto, you are supposed to expect everyone to hit you or get in your way. B.2: Your on a moto, you should know to be careful on yellow lights and at intersections in general. That's where most motos bite it.
Quote from: hbliam on December 20, 2008, 09:59:43 PM
Regarding the lady and the yellow and you on a motorcycle. A: Yeah, she was probably an idiot. B: Your on a moto, you are supposed to expect everyone to hit you or get in your way. B.2: Your on a moto, you should know to be careful on yellow lights and at intersections in general. That's where most motos bite it.
exactly, I was approaching the intersection, scanning both directions, etc.
when she slammed on her brakes, I didn't see it right away, grabbed a fistful of brakes, and un-intentionally revved the motor at the same time. I endo'd into the back of her truck. My body did more damage to her truck than my bike did. :o
Quote from: hbliam on December 20, 2008, 09:59:43 PM
He's the one that turned it into a moral question. I thought he was going to be doing something to do with the cameras. Making cabinets for a guy involved in a business you don't care for? Unrelated IMO.
+1 I thought the op had something to do w/ camera equip design etc. wtf. >:(
Quote from: Capo on December 20, 2008, 05:06:29 AM
Whats wrong with traffic enforcement cameras?
If you don't break the law you have nothing to fear.
You could argue that you're safer running a light when you find a tailgater that's unlikely to stop behind you.
You could argue that you are being impersonally accused by a camera instead of a live person (yeah, that whole due process thing)
Could a camera understand these circumstances? Or could a police officer?
Cameras sometimes cross the line of being revenue generators for local municipalities instead of serving law enforcement purposes too.
Multiple surveys have confirmed the reduction of "T-bone" type accidents but an increase in "rear end" accidents after the introduction of red light cameras.
I'll have to find a good one, but several PDs have done the research. T-bone accidents are worse than rear end type because the crossing driver (green) is often hit on the driver's side by the red-light running driver and dies -- injuries are greater.
Nevertheless, accident RATES go up because more rear-ends, but lower fatalities.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on December 21, 2008, 06:12:21 AM
Multiple surveys have confirmed the reduction of "T-bone" type accidents but an increase in "rear end" accidents after the introduction of red light cameras.
I'll have to find a good one, but several PDs have done the research. T-bone accidents are worse than rear end type because the crossing driver (green) is often hit on the driver's side by the red-light running driver and dies -- injuries are greater.
Nevertheless, accident RATES go up because more rear-ends, but lower fatalities.
They keep adding roundabouts in my town for the same reason. We now have 6 of them. At least 4 more will be built in 09.
Quote from: alfisti on December 21, 2008, 06:18:32 AM
They keep adding roundabouts in my town for the same reason. We now have 6 of them. At least 4 more will be built in 09.
i like roundabouts, but the idiots here put one in and left the straight road in the middle of it and put 3 sets of traffic light on it.. WTF!?
Quote from: ducatizzzz on December 21, 2008, 12:37:14 PM
i like roundabouts, but the idiots here put one in and left the straight road in the middle of it and put 3 sets of traffic light on it.. WTF!?
Sounds like someone entirely missed the concept there. ???
Quote from: somegirl on December 21, 2008, 12:47:22 PM
Sounds like someone entirely missed the concept there. ???
Na, the person responsible probably has either a body shop or a legal practice that handles auto accident loss cases.
Quote from: hbliam on December 19, 2008, 06:14:32 PM
I love when people post up issues from their personal life on the Internet, ask for opinions, and then bash the responses. :)
I apologize. My reply to your response was unnecessarily harsh and over the top. You took the time to reply. I appreciate it. :-[
Quote from: kopfjager on December 20, 2008, 10:26:35 PM
+1 I thought the op had something to do w/ camera equip design etc. wtf. >:(
tf is I should have been more general in my OP. The traffic camera aspect seemed to be relevant since this is a transportation-themed site. Perhaps I should have asked if others would take on a client's project if they don't morally agree with what that client does for a living -- even if the prospective project has nothing to do with the client's line of work. That just seemed like a boring question. Sorry.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on December 20, 2008, 09:20:47 PM
when a women panic stops on a yellow light because she didn't want to get another "red light camera ticket" and I run into the back of her....that's what's wrong with them.
I was taught to approach light controlled intersections with care and be prepared to stop if the sequence should change during my approach.
I like the idea of graduated licensing to help control the quality of drivers. It would be great to have skills assessments for endorsements for various kinds of roads (basic licenses get you around suburban residential streets, then divided highways/higher congestion, then interstates, then congested city streets). Economic implications would bar this from happening.
I've only been riding for a season, so I'm still fairly new to this. The only close calls I've had so far have been when cagers have turned their vehicle into a mobile phone booth. Red light cameras MIGHT save lives, but cell phone jammers would save more. Economic implications would bar this from happening as well.
Quote from: redxblack on December 22, 2008, 10:34:15 AM
cell phone jammers would save more. Economic implications would bar this from happening as well.
http://www.phonejammer.com/product.php?productid=16139&cat=0&bestseller=Y (http://www.phonejammer.com/product.php?productid=16139&cat=0&bestseller=Y)
Works up to 20 m
Wire it up to your bike's charger so it only runs when your bike is on. Mount it under the headlight. You will be a mobile cone of silence.
10 years in the pen if you get busted with it (in the USA)
(http://www.phonejammer.com/images/P/pj003.png)
[beer]
Now that I think of it though - a dropped call means looking blankly at the phone for a few seconds and redialing. Might be worse!
Quote from: redxblack on December 22, 2008, 12:06:54 PM
Now that I think of it though - a dropped call means looking blankly at the phone for a few seconds and redialing. Might be worse!
+1
Dumb idea.
Quote from: Capo on December 22, 2008, 04:48:03 AM
I was taught to approach light controlled intersections with care and be prepared to stop if the sequence should change during my approach.
I think I remember that as well. [thumbsup]