I know there are staunch devotees to both sides and I don't wish to start a war.
As I'm searching for a Monster, I know care anf feeding as important as age and miles.
What are the basic virtues of carbed bikes .vs fuel injection?
Certainly I enjoy some quasi modern fuel delivery in my turbo Saab.
And am sure I'd be happy with either as long as it made plenty of noise.
Also any particular advantages of older vs newr, I'd love to hear.
I know Monsters are getting lighter, more power etc.
I'm looking for a fun commuter thru the country, my range generally 99 (750) to '03 or so.
I'll be doing most of my own maintenance if that matters ( no dealers in VT).
Thanks for any opinions!
You can 'fix' your own carbed bike.
If you want to change the airbox or remove it, jetting, through trial and error, is possible in your yard without any special tools. It also offers the possibility of upgrading to flatslides.
The fuelies require special equipment, or a power commander to tune.
The fuelies don't suffer from carb icing however like flatslides, and that will be an issue in VT in the spring and fall when ambient temps are 40 or below. They also have better throttle response than the stock CV carbs. Many will argue that flatslides are as good in that dept as FI.
Either way they're both good bikes...
and I'd suggest a 900 if you can find one.
I'm old school and love my carburetors on my "TOYS" , I like being able to adjust / repair them ...
M900 ;)
Yamaha BANSHEE (take me back to high school every time I see it ;) )
1971 TS125 R
&
a couple old Chevy's ...
But both my wife's and my daily drivers are fuel injected for "easy of use"
~DaVe
I've never had flatslide icing as mentioned above, but it could happen with any carburator I suppose.
I know there was a de-icing kit available at one point for the OEM Mikuni cv carbs...
A bike with flatslides is a pain in the ass to start when it is around freezing outside -there is no choke!
...but you can "pump" the throttle before you crank it because there is an honest-to-goodness accelerator pump in them just like the ol' Holley double pumper has.
You cannot get the sound the intake makes with flatslides if you've got F.I.
They make a cool "tinkety" noise at idle,
Under load on the highway they make a light pulsing whistle...
and they ROAR like nothing else when you rip them open!
I honestly think the old 900 motors with the external oil lines were some of the most reliable bulletproof motors
Ducati ever made. They went away when the carburators did. They certainly cost more $$$ to produce.
Just don't park them for extended periods (end of season storage, etc.) without turning off the fuel petcock or (like any carburator) they are prone to gumming up.
There is something inherently right in the universe when you're rolling down the road with
an air cooled desmo valve carburated v-twin under your butt.
[moto]
Quote from: RichD on December 19, 2008, 09:51:02 PM
.....
There is something inherently right in the universe when you're rolling down the road with
an air cooled desmo valve carburated v-twin under your butt.
[moto]
WOW ! Great statement :) :) :)
~DaVe
QuoteI know there was a de-icing kit available at one point for the OEM Mikuni cv carbs...
You can check bikes for this feature when shopping.
Bikes with this have a valve just before the oil enters the cooler to divert hot oil through carbs first. A must have if riding in low temp and high humidity. Iced carbs dont make for a good ride.
had ~47k or so on my first 900. :P things were bulliet proof.
Quote from: RichD on December 19, 2008, 09:51:02 PM
I've never had flatslide icing as mentioned above, but it could happen with any carburator I suppose.
I know there was a de-icing kit available at one point for the OEM Mikuni cv carbs...
<snip>
[moto]
Poor grammar on my part.
I was trying to say the flatslides do not ice.
The CVs sure do.
Quote from: seevtsaab on December 19, 2008, 07:20:48 PM
I know there are staunch devotees to both sides and I don't wish to start a war.
As I'm searching for a Monster, I know care and feeding as important as age and miles.
What are the basic virtues of carbed bikes .vs fuel injection?
Once tuned correctly, a fuel injected Ducati is easier to live with than a carbureted one. They're easier to start in the cold and the fast idle lever is a bit easier to use than the choke. But as mentioned, it's easier to tune a carbureted Monster yourself. I wrote the jetting FAQ on The Old Board, so I have a bit of experience tuning carburetors.
If I were looking for a Monster right now, carburetors vs. fuel injection would be down in about tenth place on my list of concerns. It's not as important as many other features of the bike.
The biggest issue I have with older bikes, and I have a 1993 and a 1998, is that the electrical connections often need attention after all those years. Everything else is standard maintenance. At least on a Monster, it's easy to get to all the wiring, so you could probably clean up all connections and apply dielectric grease in a couple of hours. I keep putting off doing that for my bikes because it's so much more work to get to the wiring under the fairings.
If I were in your position, I would look at all Monsters for sale and buy the first one that you think is a good enough deal. Other than the 2001 M600, there were no bad years or bad Monster models.
I recently (Nov. 08) acquired a barely used 2001 Monster 750 - carb. - as a stablemate for my '04 MG Breva 750 (fuel injected). I am sure it's subjective, but the transition (roll-on and roll-off) seems to be smoother (more gentle?) with the carb. bike. I found the same difference between my '95 VFR 750 and a friends fuel injected later model (2001). Coincidence?
The universal complaint I hear from customers going from carbed bikes to EFI bikes is how much more sudden the throttle response it, making them feel as though the EFI bike is jerky at low speeds. It's something you get used to very quickly and don't notice at all after a very short time, but there's definitely a transition period. When I hop on my carbed SS I always notice how much "softer" the response is off idle compared to my other EFI bikes. I like my (dialed in) carbie just fine too, but I don't miss going through that period of jetting/working on it to get it right. The fuel injection is spot-on all the time and definitely easier to live with, IMO.
Quote from: ducpainter on December 20, 2008, 05:15:17 AM
Poor grammar on my part.
I was trying to say the flatslides do not ice.
The CVs sure do.
Sorry to say, flatslides do ice. At least mine did...
On a naked bike, I prefer the clean look of carbs. FI requires wires running around to all the sensors and that is hard to clean up. With a fully faired superbike the wires are hidden so it becomes a non-issue. Wiring harnesses aren't too bad when they are new but as I'm finding out with a 25 year old FI car, old wiring harnesses develop problems, the oem doesn't sell new wiring harnesses anymore and good luck trying to find obsolete electrical connectors if you wanted to build your own harness.
I can say after the ride to work the stock carbs DO ice...
JM
I bad mouthed FI way back in the early 80's and was finally won over when I finally had to rebuild my old 89 302 Bronco and 85 535I BMW. Both carried the same Bosch FI. Wonderfully easy to work with one you get used to em.
Once I got use to a pressure regulator how easy and reliable injectors are, and rechipping the ECU etc it was just cake - easy.
And hot rodding the S4RS with the DP Termi kit is just stupid easy - bolt it on, plug it in, perfect the first time and silk smooth from idle to WFO.
My old S4R with a laptop and the PCMusb was a treat too - don't even need wrenches.
I like the old school too, but give me fuel injection now days.
And talk about intake sound, airbox top off a set of 50mm intakes sounds like it's about to suck up the whole world. [thumbsup]
I guess I will always have an affinity for a set of 41.5mm delorttos with velocity stacks intakes though.
Good ole days? These are the good ole days.
LA
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on December 21, 2008, 08:19:13 PM
Sorry to say, flatslides do ice. At least mine did...
Really?
I've never heard that complaint before with them.