I've worked w/ passenger car, light truck, medium commercial truck and farm implement tires and know how and when it's o.k. to repair them, but need to know if it's o.k./acceptable/safe to repair a motorcycle tire. I just installed a new rear tire 300 miles ago and it caught a nail this afternoon and is completely flat. It's right in the middle of the tread and if it were a car tire I'd fix it w/ a patch on the inside and forget about it. Can the same be done on a bike tire?
Later
IMO yes.
Tire repair questions are almost as bad as religion and politics. Most motorcycle tire manufacturers approve a tire repair if the hole is small and is in the center of the tire as long as you use a mushroom plug (combination of a plug and a patch installed from the inside) and more than half the tread is left. The tire does loose it's speed rating though. Some say nothing about repairs.
From Dunlop:
Some punctures in motorcycle tires can be repaired if no other damage is present. Dunlop recommends only individual permanent plug-patch repairs of small tread area punctures from within the demounted tire by a qualified tire repair shop or motorcycle dealer. Never perform an exterior repair and never use an innertube as a substitute for a proper repair. Your bike should not exceed 50 mph for the first 24 hours after the repair and the repaired tire should never be used over 80 mph. Dunlop speed ratings are voided by repairs.
No form of temporary repair should be attempted because secondary damage caused by the penetrating object may not be detected and tire or tube deflation may occur at a later date.
Dunlop does not recommend the use of liquid sealants. These are a form of temporary repair that may adversely affect ply material and mask secondary damage caused by the penetrating object. Reliance upon sealants can result in sudden tire failure and accident.
From Avon:
Repairs......are best left to an expert. It is possible to repair damaged tyres, but only within a certain area either side of the centre-line of the tread contour and never on the sidewall. To avoid any potentially dangerous confusion, always take your tyre to a qualified repair expert, such as your local Avon dealer. It's as well to take your inner tubes in there, too, and remember that if you have to replace a tube type tyre, renew the inner tube at the same time.
From Metzeler:
TYRE REPAIR (TUBELESS TYRES)
According to the specific regulations of different country governments, a general recommendation regarding tyre repair cannot be given. For your country, please refer to your distributor. In case a repair is permitted, METZELER is only recommending the repair of small punctures restricted to the tread area using a mushroom head type plug. The repair of a punctured tubeless tyre by means of fitting a tube is not permitted .
My opinion:
I consider running a repaired tire the same as running a spare, a temporary fix until I can get a new tire. To me, they have a short life anyway, and it is cheap insurance. Many have run plugged tires (all types of plugs) for thousands of miles without issue. Bottom line is the choice is yours.
Thanks for the info.
Later
I have done it, others have chosen to replace. If it was me, a nail (not something larger) in the center of the tire is the perfect kind of hole to plug....
This topic comes up often with the obligatory dire warnings. So ask yourself ...
How is the safety risk of a leak from a repaired tire any different than the risk of a puncture in the first place? The consequences are the same. The overall risk of injury is also the same. The failure probability of a properly repaired tire from all accounts is no greater than the chance of running over a nail in the first place.
So, if you're going to get squeamish, you should probably do so BEFORE you get on a motorcycle.
We live in an age where everyone sues anyone for anything ... so no wonder it's hard to get a tire manufacturer or a repair shop to get past the liability issue to agree to patch a freakin' tire. Our grandfathers would be amused (and also a bit ashamed) at us throwing away a perfectly good tire because it got a puncture. So, if you can't get a dealer or tire shop to dismount the tire and properly patch it from the inside, then buy a kit and do it yourself.
Keep in mind that a tire manufacturer is in the business to sell tires so there's really no reason for them to suggest patching a puncture. However, Dunlop (to their credit) offers this advice:
"Dunlop recommends only permanent repairs performed from the inside of the tire, using a combination patch/plug method. Never attempt a repair from the outside, or inject a sealant, or simply use an inner tube, a patch or a plug as a substitute for a proper repair. Only a qualified tire repair shop or motorcycle tire dealer should perform repairs. Inspection of the tire and adequacy of repair becomes the responsibility of the person actually performing the repair and Dunlop does not warrant the results of a repair in any way."
That just about covers their butt, but there IS a point to be made here ...
You need to use a proper repair kit and materials, and only on tires suitable for repair. If you're going to do the repair, then YOU have to remove the tire from the wheel and do the inspection yourself. Here's some guidelines for either you or the tire repair shop:
The tire should NOT be repaired if:
• The puncture is larger than 1/4-inch in diameter
• The puncture is not perpendicular to the carcass
• The puncture is in the tire sidewall.
• There are any cut or separated plies
• There is any bead or carcass damage from running the tire flat
• The tire has been previously injected with a sealant/balancer
• There is more than one repair in any quadrant of the tire or there were two prior repairs to the tire.
So those six plugs I ran cross country and for another 4k or so....bad plan? :P ;D
It's your life…
I've run over 6, 7..10 (I've lost count) nails. Replaced the first tire. Fixed the rest.
Been running a plug in the current tire for over a year now..since my first week in Seattle!!
Ran one rear tire with two plugs in it for several thousand miles!
Dunlop 207 with about 1000 miles, nail hole straight through the centerline of the tread. Dunlop website says patch-plug is ok, tube is a definite no. 5 dealers would not patch-plug it "due to liability" but did offer to tube it instead. Go figure, would not do the authorized repair, but would do one that is expressly forbidden!
Quote from: Shazaam! on December 22, 2008, 09:35:44 PM
<snip>
How is the safety risk of a leak from a repaired tire any different than the risk of a puncture in the first place? The consequences are the same. The overall risk of injury is also the same. The failure probability of a properly repaired tire from all accounts is no greater than the chance of running over a nail in the first place.
<snip>
If you pick up a screw or nail and it stays in the tire air loss is often very slow. Just recently I had a dry wall screw my car tire that lost about 3 PSI a week. To plug a tire you need to clean the puncture, making the hole a little bigger. If the plug has a major failure you now have a big leak and quick air loss. A proper repair minimizes this possibility but does not completely eliminate it.
Thanks for all the good info. I work w/ all kinds of tires except motorcycle tires, so I do know how to properly repair those. My original question was specifically about the bike tire, since I have zero to no experience w/ them. Thanks to all who responded. Nichols in Milpitas said they could probably patch it, I'm very comfortable w/ a PROPER repair and am not squeamish at all about it. Proper being a patch/plug.
Later
Quote from: Blake on December 24, 2008, 01:40:02 AM
Thanks for all the good info. I work w/ all kinds of tires except motorcycle tires, so I do know how to properly repair those. My original question was specifically about the bike tire, since I have zero to no experience w/ them. Thanks to all who responded. Nichols in Milpitas said they could probably patch it, I'm very comfortable w/ a PROPER repair and am not squeamish at all about it. Proper being a patch/plug.
10 years ago when I worked at Cycleworks (the company I now run) we worked on all kinds of bikes. Many of our customers were too broke and were barely able to even pay attention (ok bad pun) let alone replace a perfectly great tire. I've got a lot of experience repairing tubeless sportbike tires...
Agreed about the puncture needing to be in the tread of the tire and not the sidewall. As long as the puncture is smaller than the stem of the "mushroom" type of tire patch/plug, I would try to fix it. Within about 10 repairs, I came up with a procedure that nearly always worked perfectly -- and would last for the remaining life of the tire:
- ask customer if they used that damnable gooey fix a flat crap
- add $20 to the bill if they did and lay rags all around when breaking the bead...
- get tire off, scrub area of the puncture inside and out with a rag dampened with brake cleaner
- abrade the inside of the tire with a scraper to scuff the surface
- do it some more
- and if it was a Michelin with their weird ribbed inner surface, do it again more
- only use the smaller size of the mushroom + stem type of patches
- apply rubber cement and wait a minute for it to begin to gel
- peal the backing off the patch and stem then pull the mushroom patch/plug through the hole
- press firmly on the inside of the patch for at least 2 minutes
- cut the stem off the patch evenly with the tire's tread with a razor blade
- fill tire, test for leaking with soapy water
Once I got these steps down, we never had an immediate leaker. I recall a couple bikes (out of a few dozen) would come back within a week and we would try it again. I have ridden a few thousand aggressive miles with patched rear tires. z!na has ridden plenty with a patched rear tire.
Two things I wouldn't do with a patched tire are a track day or begin a long trip with one. z!na and I set out for laguna seca one year and her patched rear tire started leaking, making us stop frequently to refill it. We had it replaced at a bike shop in monterey.
That particular patched tire started life dubiously, as on its first ride, it got a puncture and she unknowingly rode 80+ miles home on the freeway at 80+ mph. The tire was barely even warm! I have a lot of respect for Michelin and their Pilot Road tires. THAT is a lot of built in safety. I've had a few rear tire failures and with each, the decline of the tire's performance wound up being a shop stopper. She did notice the bike was moving around, but not enough to alarm her. And the tire looked normal -- no rubbing or odd scuffing and absolutely normal wear.
It's like shazaam said ... and I advise folks: if you are willing to be inconvenienced by the plug's failure at the most inopportune time, then yeah, try a plug to save the $$$. If you're going to lose your job if you miss half a day sorting out your bike, then get a new tire.
:) Chris
+11ty billion on Chris's opinion/experience. The type patch/plug is very important, but the technique of application is paramount.
And in this case patch/plug doesn't mean either patch or plug, it means it's a patch with a plug attached to the center of the patch during the manufacture of the patch and the plug gets pulled through the hole.
LA