Ducati Monster Forum

I really do not know why this turned personal. I didn't like an email from a business. I never challenged anyone’s beliefs. I never said anything bad about anyone.  Yet because my beliefs make some people uncomfortable they feel the need to put me down. And how many threads does it need to be done in? I do not attack people on the forum. I am opinionated, and will post that opinion from time to time. Have they ever been a personal attack? Is anyone else here opinionated? I thought so. Careful, they may burn you at the stake.

There is a blatant double standard on this board. It is amazing how some people can get away with personal attacks, yet others are chased with pitchforks. Is 'piss off' really any different than another’s 'he can make the beast with two backs off' post? And I dare say that he had a better reason.  When another member is told they are a moron and how ugly their dog was, there were cheers of encouragement from another member ('you go girl' was the response.) Yet they complain and leave the forum due to a 'personal attack'(the 'he can make the beast with two backs off' post) [roll] on a guy who is sleeping with his wife.   There were even people calling for his banishment due to the post  [bang]

Many of my posts are indeed 'goofing around,' as Swanny so eloquently stated. So are plenty of other members’ posts. I find it fascinating that some people’s white noise posts are innocuous, while others 'are driving good people away.'  This forum would lose a lot of appeal without the white noise. This place is quality entertainment. It is better than TV. Why do people let this place stress them out?

 If you have a problem with a person, tell them or leave it alone. If you do not like someone’s avatar, shoot him/her a pm and let them know. Does calling 5 people and complaining about an avatar really do any good if you neglect to tell the person in question?

I understand that there are a lot of new people here that view things different than the old-timers. Why the double standard between the old and the new? Yes, I am a newbie. Many people joined this board 48 days before I did. There have also been quite a few newbs since then. We are not from TOB. We do not care about TOB. I read every post in this forum before I started posting, and have not really deviated from the precedent set by old-timers posts.  People deleted their accounts over the lack of motorcycle content back then too. 

May 6th, 2008. The birth of DFWM as I know it. May 14, 2008 at 08:46:48pm the two word thread is created. At 09:28:30 the pregnant doging begins. Less than an hour later.

How exactly are the newbs (or the westies) ruining this board? Yes, people are saying that. We all know it. I'm sorry that I finally had to point out the elephant in the corner.

I apologize to those whom I quoted or referred to in this post. It was impossible to say what I needed to without doing so. I hold no ill will towards any of you.

Zack, I don't know every aspect to what you refered to - I don't read it all or remember all I do read - but you stated your position in a clear manner.  Well done.

"Better than TV"  [thumbsup]you got that right!  Sometimes I have a knee-jerk reaction to some things and I reply before thinking it out, my bad. 

This forum helps me to relate and communicate with so many more people than before. 

Well that's about all I could come up with.  I'll hang up and listen now [cheeky]

I guess I'm really out of touch. I didn't realize there was so much behind the scenes drama and ill will. I see a lot of good natured ribbing and teasing, not that much particularly maliscious. Funny how sensitive people get when you push their buttons, accidently or not. And I mean that in general terms, not anybody specific. I reckon it's human nature. At least we all have that in common.

Slag,

Don't really know where you're coming from, maybe in passing or glancing at some threads.  None stick out in my mind.  I agree with you on the people whining about someone's avatar.  Get over it.  Time to Cowboy/girl up and move on.  I see posts with the term "Westies" in it, but other than that, I don't put much thought into where someone lives.  I live in Dallas, doesn't matter to me where you live...even if it is South Dallas.   :o  I agree with your point that someone should talk/PM/contact the other person.  It would help if the wussification of America would stop and peeps wouldn't be so offended by every little thing.   [roll]

Not sure about double-standards, but one thing to consider is that typed text is a poor form of communicating intent at times and leaves much room for perceptions to take over.

+ eleventy-billion

Hey, what do you mean by that? Are you saying the Dallas folks are bad communicators!! (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0082.gif)

I keed, I keed.   [cheeky]

I am one of the old schoolers....I don't participate as much any more mainly because life changes and I don't ride as much anymore but all of the "white noise" is also a factor. You have to wade through a lot of worthless posts and threadjacks to find information out.  Then the threadjackers say "update the 1st post" so that makes the jacking okay. [roll]

Has the board changed from before...you bet.  Back in the day there wouldn't be all the bull shit that goes on now.  We were all very respectful of everyone else we mostly talked about riding motorcycles and we did a hell of a lot of that.  Most of the crap slinging was between me and DucTape but we still got together almost every weekend and rode our motorcycles.

Mentioned above was the loss of long time members....it is a shame that all members of the board cannot conduct themselves in a way that does not offend other people.  We are all adults.  Everyone one of the people that I know of that left are great people who have helped me and I have helped them in the past.  They are a wealth of knowledge and folks that are always willing to help others out.  It is an absolute shame that the are no longer active members of the board.

I pulled this from the rules section of the board....

ADDENDUM: General Posting Principles

Ok, so above we listed the dos and don'ts re how to conduct yourself on the board.  Here's a much simpler version.  Make sure that before you post you ask these questions:

1)  Will others think I'm being a jerk?

2)  Would I say this in front of my mother?

3)  Does this post contribute to the board or add value to this thread?

4)  Is this post on topic? Should I begin a new thread.

I've been on both boards DML/DMF and this time of year it seems people are always more easily agitated. 

It's the riding "off-season" and the stress of the holiday season (whatever holidays you wish to recognize or not).  I won't go there...

With the size of the group now, not eveybody is going to agree or like everybody else all the time if at all.  No way around that

Grain of salt people... it's just a message board.

Internet communities are dynamic and change.  Some like the change, some don't... people come and go.

It's not as sterile as some would like and it's too sterile for others.  C'st la vie

The interwebs are a strange place.

Give/Take what you want to/from the board... just don't forget to tip the barmaid [thumbsup]




Can I get another cliche in there?

Must confess that I have no idea what the issue here is, or the history of disagreements, or whatever.

My personal rules are:

1) Avoid here any and ALL polarizing subjects like religion, politics, sex, etc.  I have plenty of opportunity to do that elsewhere.  I come here to escape that crap and for DUCATI based comaraderie.  I DON'T have opportunities for that much anywhere else.  I protect that opportunity here like it were a small, lovely child.

2) Always use emoticons to convey sarcasm/joking/jovial posts and statements that could be read as snarky or mean spirited.

3) Ignore the assholes that sneak through.

4) Stay away from threads that devolve into pages and pages of one liners riffing on the previous one liner.  Not really a rule.  Just don't have the time or interest to keep up.

5) If I think someone is rude to me, I'll call 'em on it and let them explain a true intent to the contray.  If they were trying to be rude, I brush the dust off my clothes and refer to Rule #3.

Happy Advent all.

Merry Feast of the Nativity.

Festivus for the Rest of Us (er, ah, the rest of ya'll)!!

UPDATE:

6) Oh yeah, I try not to take myself too seriously here either.

it's crazy how the dynamics here completely mimic my time playing an online game called everquest and the guild i was part of.  uncanny.

why anyone would leave the group over nonsense on the board is beyond me...but i'm definitely not in the "know" so maybe there are other reasons.  i can only assume though.  i'm not always in the mood for reading through the nonsense and spastic posting...but half the time, i am the clown posting the nonsense and bs.  i just wish people wouldn't sweat all the small crap, and just enjoy the show...it's a great and diverse group of people we have here, and i hate to see us lose anyone.  that said, i really like the dynamic here, and can only hope we stay as active as we have been.  and here's to hoping we don't have to do many more of these little talks in 2009   [thumbsup]

and lol @ norris using the word "lovely"...i'm not sure why that was so funny but i almost spit diet coke up...  thanks, dude.   :)

Thank you for the excellent posts. Bryant, I think that you have nailed it. and I wish that I could be as concise. Misunderstandings do happen, and the forgetting of an emoticon can be catastrophic!!  Real or imagined, many people have felt an uneasiness going down in the background.  It has been a far too frequent topic (in person) when we should be talking about other frivilous BS. 

Swanny, it is good to see you posting. I apologize that they have involved a  disagreement with me, but that is the way it goes. 

I would like to throw one more thing out there. It is very easy for the unhappy, vocal people to take the spotlight. I would like to point out once again the most popular threads on the entire Ducati Monster Forum, two of which are in our little DFWM section.


(http://catie.smugmug.com/photos/441195001_xgvPA-O.jpg)



Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

Top 10 Topics (by Replies)                                           Top 10 Topics (by Views)
#3 The DFWM say anything thread with 1801                    #3 The DFWM say anything thread with 12636
#5 Two Words with 1550                                               #8 Two Words with 9168


  

Which brings to mind words of wisdom- It's better to give than receive ;D

I'm not so sure.  Seems like a lose-lose.  [puke]

so [bang] many [bang] things [bang] I [bang] could [bang] say! [bang]

Having been the guy for a long time that was on the receiving end of all attacks....

A)  It's just the internet.
B)  People are people.
C)  Refer to A and B.

If you don't like a part of it, don't read the whole thing.  If you think it sounds stupid, don't click on it.  If you're a jerk and you threadjack a lot, tone it down.

If A + B = C, does C - A = 1/2 B?  Wait, wrong subject...sorry guys.

 [moto], [drink], and  [beer], but no  [leo]. 

That is all.

Swanny expressed the point of view of many people and Zack others and Bryant still others.  I think it's unfortunate that people leave and others choose to stay away or don't post.  But if the board becomes what some want it to be then others might leave because they don't get from it what attracted them to it in the first place.  I think that would be just as sad.

The idea of a big tent implies that the many different approaches are accomodated.  Far be it for me to lecture those who post silly things on this board because I did a lot of it as recently as last night.  I also don't intend to lecture those whose wishes are for the board to be more serious and have the type of content they are looking for without the "white noise".  But if you guys leave, you are punishing the collective by witholding your knowledge and experience from us.  On the otherhand, if the others leave I'm afraid the place won't be as vibrant and funny as it frequently is.

Listen, I have a great respect for the old timers and anyone who knows more about motorcycles, riding and Ducatis than me but I also have a lot of fun with the new blood.  I sometimes ask myself why I hang around people half my age and realise that it's because I enjoy it when I'm around them.  Ride or no ride. 

Some of the people who can't stand the "white noise" have a lot to give and have always been well received when they do show up.  But I for one would not like to lose the "white noise".  I have lost out on many fun times by not wading thru the white noise and sometimes feel excluded but when I show up at the meets, it's like I never left the group.

I am a big contributor to the "white noise" on the board.  But I try to help out when I know I can.  So I think the ideal situation is for all of us to accomodate one another, discover what's good in the board and contribute as much as you can in whatever way you can.  My 2 cents.

cdc

well put my man.   [thumbsup]

Hey cdc, +1,  [thumbsup],  :) There are not just a bunch of good people here, but also some wise peeps [bow_down]

talk about out of the loop..... that would be me. who took an "attack" personally? who pissed zach off so bad?
who said the westies were tearing up the board? there is another question i have but i don't think this is place for it so i will ask it to the proper person in person.  i dont read every post on every subject because personally sometimes i don't give a crap and things get so far off subject it's hard to filter out the bull s***. the white noise sets up for alot of inside jokes that we all sit around and laugh about at times. my rules are simple:
A) if you don't like what you are reading......SKIP IT!!!
B) if it is a serious question from someone, and everyone here knows when that is, offer a serious answer or
    comment. don't mess with the individual when they have a problem.
C) its the flipping internet and remember you will have to see that person eventually and how do you want them
    to think of you. someone who will cut up and not take it to serious or the guy nobody can joke with. the
    guy who takes nothing serious or the guy who knows when it's serious.

Well, I've held my tongue long enough on this thread, so here is my response.

I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. 

and...can i just add....as to the westies taking things over... you dudes deserve it, if that's the case, which of course it isn't.  you hang out all the time, and ride every freaking day.  i don't even own a car and you guys ride way more than me.  so, for what it's worth, you're hardcore core in my book.  anyway, i'll get back to my game of fallout 3 now..   [thumbsup]

You had part of your life sucked away from that bastard game too?  I helped lead a guild on Stromm for 3 years, Luclin through DoDH before it all imploded.  Amazing how the dynamics of guilds worked there.


ON TOPIC:  I have no clue what is going on here anymore.  I read from time to time and see posts about people being pissed off etc.  I don't claim to know what is causing all of this, but I do know that I like to ride!  I don't get to ride or hang out nearly as much as I would like, but I do enjoy what little time I get to spend with you guys.  That is all.

+1

Can someone recap what exactly is going on?  Cliff notes version for those of us that don't live on the boards that much anymore?  Who left?  Feel free to PM me the info if its too 'public' sensitive.

First off, you have to show up at gossip tea parties we hold every now and then.   ;D  Just kidding.

Seriously though, my hope is that this will all blow over eventually.  Sometimes, things get aired out and sometimes things have to be said.  If we really didn't like each other then the riff will remain but there's enough goodwill around here that we will move on and let this go.

Don't feel excluded or out of the loop.  Same thing happens in all families.

I suggest we give this issue a rest now.

cdc

I've been on several forums with previous bikes and I can honestly say this group is by far the best.  Not only does everyone know their bikes, they are well read, interesting and fun to be around.  I personally like that not one of us is alike but can say that these errors, if they can so be called, will lessen in time I hope.  I have much to learn about Duc's and hope this forum will feed my need for both Duc's and great conversation.  For me, one can never have enough options in threads.

Have you ever walked down the sidewalk of a street in a big city and heard several different dialects passing within earshot? It's very interesting to hear. This happened to me a lot while living in Boston for a couple of years. Sometimes if you come out of your comfort zone and get bold enough to approach a person you don't know you may get to know someone who is totally different than you but just a like in more ways that you would have realized if you had not taken the time to let down your barriers and actually talk with someone instead of typing on a keyboard.
 I don't know about anyone else but I find the art of conversation much more stimulating than following this or any internet board.

That said I hang around here because like others like the diversity of the people here. Duc people not lemmings. I'll be at Joe T's tomorrow with a nice cigar a margarita and topics ready for some REAL conversation. All DFWMers are invited.

Alright, GOODNIGHT already?

cdc

Nothing to see here, move along... [thumbsup]

You're all just a bunch of stoopid doody-heads!!!   [cheeky]

Seriously though, I do want to share something on this subject.

There was a get-together last year that was disussed beforehand here on the DFW/DMF (the meet at the Adolphus Hotel's Rodeo Bar).  One individual was, to put it plain, pissing me off with his comments.  They weren't directed at me or anyone in particular, and I didn't know this individual.  For the most part I kept my "pissedoffness" to myself.

Then came the event and I met the person (who will remain un-named here).

What a great guy.  His way with spoken words just didn't translate well to the written form, and I misinterpreted him all along.

The lesson for moi?  Lighten up Francis!

Post Script:
Anyone here calls me Francis, and I'll kill ya!   [laugh]

Damn, Norris, I said I was sorry, do you have to keep bringing that up?

Well, as a newer "old board" person, a blatant smack talker, thread jacker, and recipient of several TOB Moderator Swanny "talks" ( I'm working on it, man! ), I can safely say that I am unimpressed with all the drama.   Communities change.  "Ours" changed. 

I can safely say that meeting the old guard on the TOB was transformative for me in terms of my experience of living in Dallas.  I was daily trying to find SOME way to get the hell out of here as soon as possible.  Meeting up with the Ducati crowd at the end of 2006, beginning of 2007 was like getting thrown a life line.  I still look at those folks that way.  Brian, Lisa, Scott, Swanny, Maria, Keith, Andre, Bryant, and many others from that crowd changed my opinion of Dallas, and made this into a livable city for me.  Can't be grateful enough, and I certainly understand some of the frustrations of that crowd with how the community here has changed.  However, communities do that.  They do it all the time, and you can't change that.  Some of those folks have chosen to withdraw from this community, and you can't change that either.  I won't miss them, because I will still see them.  However, I have also seen people here in this community give their left arm to near strangers to help them out.  It is a welcoming community.  There is some drama, and things can go a bit Jerry Springer at times, but again, sh!t happens. 

So, like it or not, The Svoloch is sticking around.

My recommendation is to learn the lesson at the holidays that our families have been teaching us since we were little:  Drink too much and pretend nothing is going on...  Oh, yeah, and don't sit on Uncle Scott's lap if his breath smells funny  [thumbsup]

Oh yeah, and a westie takeover?  Dream on Posers, where the Svoloch is, that is where the magic happens  [thumbsup]

Nice Pink Floyd reference... oh yeah, nice post too. [thumbsup]

That was the first time I met you........
Well, it wasn't me cause I know my spoken words are probably worse  :P

 [moto] I've been trying to think of something that would add to this thread and all i can think of is not once, EVER has anyone said to me, " you don't belong here. you don't have a Ducati " !   [beer]  [moto]

Thanks - that would hurt !  :'(

Now I've heard " buy a Duc already ", " don't worry you'll get yours " ( i assume Ducati )  [laugh]

Best to all - wish I could make Joe T's ( threadjack ) gotta work !  [bang]

 [bang]  :'(

But .....it wouldn't be the same without you.  ;D

cdc

I'm sorry, and you are...????   [cheeky]

Probably meant me...   ;)

Maybe it was the hat that turned him on?

It is  a pretty cool hat...

Well, i have to admit, it is a pretty cool hat..... [bacon]

...die thread, DIE!

STAND BACK!!!   CLEAR!!!  BZZZIT!!!

OK, one more!  CLEAR!!!  BZZZIT!!!

Go to 300.  CLEAR!!!  BZZZIT!!! 

BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP. 

It's dead.  Too bad, it will be missed. 

 ;D

cdc

 [roll] [roll]

BUMP!




 [laugh]

 ;D

Bump bump, bump bump, bump bump...

I'ts alive!!!!

 ;D
 [roll] [roll]+ [roll]=(f.u./2)²+ ;D
that's for Chris to figure out [cheeky]

And on the 3rd day it was reborn...

(http://img3.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sign/sign0178.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-aim-smileys.php)(http://img3.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sign/sign0179.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-animated-smileys.php)

Tommy's back!  [clap]

How was first vacation in 3, 4, 6 years?

Welcome back... Photos?!?

Please.   

***

 

Sorry I am not sure what you are talking about and since I am not around anymore to go and see whats happening and drink a Rum and diet, I am out of the loop.   Can you point me in a direction to fill me in (or anyone, call or PM me)  but I know there is alot of ribbing but it is all in good fun.

And Chris said it very well.  If you don't like what you are reading then SKIP IT!!

Life is way too short to treat people like shit, and way too short to take shit from anybody.

As for the westies (who rule, and easties drool) if I was still there I would have to ensure the westies took over!!

I say we raise our sights, & go for a blatant triple standard!!!!!

Alan, PM sent.

cdc

[roll] [roll]

Got it Thanks  [thumbsup]  

Me too. ;D

 [laugh] [laugh][laugh]

cdc
 [roll] [roll]

Mom! cdc is laughing at me again!

 [roll] [roll]

(http://www.forumsextreme.com/imgs1/Avatars_Funny_Cat_Bomb.gif)

...in pike position with a 1/2 twist ;D

(http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/8171/rabbithumpscat4ga.gif)


rabbit jack

I don't know what to say about that. :P

I say give that rabbit a belt buckle.......looked like 8 seconds to me

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Awesome!!!

HAHA...  that was good.   [laugh] [clap]

Presidential caliber bump for a presidential caliber thread.

(http://blogs.citypages.com/gop/obama%20fist%20bump.jpg)

On a serious note, I still find this thread to be completely relevant.  It is a shame.

(http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/j/z/1/obama_superman_awesome.jpg)

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

wow  [roll]

 [beer]

die thread die!

(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0019.gif)

cdc

 [roll] [roll]

ONLY YOU!

CAN PREVENT FATUOUS THREADS!!!!!

 [moto] Cut the fat! Carry On !  [beer]  [moto]

Looks good on this thread too !

 [laugh] [cheeky] [laugh] [cheeky]

does this thread make my ass look fat?

No, but your leathers do...

(http://jdra.mo-blog.jp/official/images/make the beast with two backs_you.jpg)


oh and If I forget....


(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/addamxxoxx/make the beast with two backs_you.jpg)

Priceless, but what does it mean?

image FAIL

President Obama (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17996.0)


So, politics are now OK? Yes sir, double standard.

+1

 [cheeky] ;D [laugh]

Ah lauve dees Ahmeereeka wat a great place!! Now we all celebrate!  [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

http://www.vbs.tv/full_screen.php?s=DGFE2305DC&sc=1363196 (http://www.vbs.tv/full_screen.php?s=DGFE2305DC&sc=1363196)

enjoy your freedom.

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=18407.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=18407.0)

My bad.

...but, Damn, that made me laugh ;D

Whatever the link was has been sent into the never never of deleted threads... Looks like it musta been the "NWSF" boobies thread?   (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z234/n2f/DMF%20MISC/toetap05.gif)    Epic Fail written all over that one

Oh well, *phoof* just like that, no one has access to it anymore.  Mod kill or author of the thread kill; results are the same.

Author of the thread kill.

I still have the photo though, so there is proof ;D

 [laugh]

 [beer]

Man, are you looking at the weather for tomorrow?!?  I'm thinking some Phoa noodles and maybe a yellow bike photo-shoot?   [evil]

Genius... I'm in [thumbsup]

How's tomorrow, 11:30-ish?  (Sam is still home sick today  :-[ )

sorry...  just noticed this thread....  I'm here now.  how can I help?

Just be Svoloch-y   [evil]  That should just about do it...

Hey cher, so scott posts an ACTUAL BOOBIE pic, pulls the thread and gets a "cheers" response from you. WTF is up with that? I want to be friends with you and even scott.

Please explain, no I am not PMing for a reason.   ???

Ahhh, yes quite true, quite true  - on the surface.  What you don't know was the behind the scenes polite cajoling to get him to see things My Way;  the respectful exchange of ideas, the several dozen beers, some wild-ass guitar hero - it was definitely a bipartisan, "crossing the aisle" kind of moment (although I admit the horse head in his bed *may* have been a bit much).




Actually my response to GenericScreenName's "NWS" thread was in keeping with the others.  But this time my response was more economical in approach (since my original "no more boobies/clean up the act" post has already been analyzed, criticized, referenced, cross-referenced and just in general flogged to death), I decided this time  -  in the interest of expediency -  to just post a simple graphic  (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z234/n2f/DMF%20MISC/toetap05.gif)  with the words "Epic Fail" within immediate proximity.




The way the "NWS" thread "ended" is worth noting as well: Mod intervention was again required... Great, more Mod attention on our little corner of this twisted universe  [bang] 

Now while my attitudes towards this topic have not changed, what is apparently new is me having to justify my decisions on what I choose to post about, or the position I take. 

Well, that's another Epic Fail.

So if you want to sit around, stir some shit, and debate "double standards," all I can say is it's going to be a one-sided argument.  Everyone knows where I stand - it's exactly the same place when I first responded to Slag.

Lisa

Hey All-

Just to be clear, I posted something before thinking, I did get Mod-Slapped, I apologized & deleted the thread, with the promise it won't happen again.
If there's something I'm overlooking, please let me know.

I'm deeply honored to consider the all people on this forum my friends, for there are none better.

[beer] [moto]

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_bHIY_YJJP3QAqr.jzbkF/SIG=12cahp41d/EXP=1233407640/**http%3A//www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/500/rodney_king.jpg)


I'm tired of this shit!

Everyone PLEASE get over yourselves........  [roll]


and when is our next ride?

Next ride is to lunch today  ;D  Mo' Pho noodles over on Mockingbird at 11:30.

Then there's Sunday's festivities.  Weather should be nice on Saturday as well.  Anyone up for Muenster or are y'all tired of that already?  [evil]

Muenster - Good [thumbsup]

+1 ...said it a LOT nicer than I would have.


 [beer]  [moto]

I agree with George and Tommy. On a more important note: what's up with Rodney's hair in that pic? Ya'll have fun on the ride this weekend. I'll be plowing on a tractor in west Texas. Great weather for plowing and riding. Enjoy. [thumbsup] [moto]

OK, I'll drop it. No more bs from me on this thread. I promise.

BTW, beware of mud on 917 from 35W to AMSA, the dump trucks are mudding it up.

Safe riding everyone - no more ice :)

There IS a blatant doublestandard on this thread...    [drink]

cheers,
Blatant Doublestandard