Ducati Monster Forum

yes folks, perhaps a fridge/darth vader love-child is calling...

there aren't a heap of the 992 two valvers around.

looking at things with 996 and 999 engines...with bonus fridge internals taped to the front and all. (S4R, S4rt, 999 etc)

my one aspect I loved with the 992ds is the linear power - really good for a bloke like me with half a brain but not a heap of experience...

so...to all those that have gone from 2 to 4 valves....what is your opinion?

I'm more than happy with the 90 something HP of the old girl, usually shift at around the 6 or 7 mark (she gets a bit loud after that), think the greatest change in a newer model may be the lighter wheels!

If I'm 'sensible' enough to have a litre bike as my first motorcycle and not get into trouble in my first 10,000k's....am I sensible enough to get away with a 4 valver as my second Ducati?

Thanks for your consideration!

just ask H C G  and go for a spin  [thumbsup]

in std trim the s4r and s4rs are fairly tame ime.  open pipes, set cam timing, tuning etc, they're pretty wild.  s4rs in particular.  much more go from any rpm than the 1000 motor, and where the 1000 went flat around 7,000 rpm, the s4r keeps going and the s4rs really comes on.  i kind of think they're a bit too aggressive really, but that's just me getting old and needing to keep my licence.

if you liked the look of the old one (dss) and don't mind a radiator how about the s4?  cheaper, not so popular, but still a very nice bike and a good basis.  and slower, which might be a bonus for you.  one of our old customers just traded his for a s4r somewhere so there's one for sale.  yellow tho.

there's a couple of 1000m on bike point around 12,000.  there's an s4 in perth for 7,500!  eurobrit have a cheapy that needs some love too.  most of the s4 on bikepoint are around 12,000, except for the turkey who wants 18,000.  what a goose.

I have been watching this thread hoping for more info?
Has anyone compiled a list  of Monster 2V- 4V pro/cons  best year models and or problematic engines ? Links ?
There are so many models from past years with different engines an unbiased opinion would be great.
I would be very interested in said info as a guide to my next bike as I can see myself growing out of my M695
a lot faster than anticipated.
cheers
dez

Hey Brad

With the DS there is supposedly a valve guide problem?? At 36,000k I have had no real change in valve clearances, no oil usage and no smoke or tappet racket usually associated with crook guides!! Should I pull the heads and get them checked or just maybe I got a good one ??
 :-\

the valve guide issue in the 2 valvers is a bit like the rocker issue in the 4 valvers. it's an issue, yes. but the forums seem to make the issues bigger than they really are, and i don't mean there's exaggeration or fibs or anything like that, it's just that problems that do occur get aired well and lets face it, when things are going well we're out riding but when there's a concern we ask around, usually here and the number of people having issues or issues raised is disproportunate as a percentage of actual owners. There's a lot more "good ones" out there than bad ones.

4V pros, speed, acceleration, power etc. cons, expensive to maintain.
2V pros, simple, torquey, cheaper to maintain cons, not enough power for some.

paul.

nice simple summary Paul  [thumbsup]

... the fridge ... don't forget the fridge  [cheeky]

betty, that's called T. E. C. H. N. O. L. O. G. Y  !!!!
and it's for those of us who think the only things that should be air cooled these days are whipper snippers and lawn mowers! ;D


paul.

Not to forget the Indian Royal Enfields. Now THAT is TECHNOLOGY.  ;D

  (Indian hand grenade  [roll])

Yeah, its alright one of our cars even has a radiator ....












.... but it's not sticking out like the proverbial saying 'look at me and how I can ruin the look of a classy looking motorcycle' .... all in the name of a few extra horsies that you can't legally use most of the time  [laugh]

the valve guide thing we didn't get told about until the service bulletin came out - i forget when that was.  we had a few ds motors that had at least one dirty cylinder at idle - even a demo bike with a couple of thousand km from memory.  to the point that we went looking for broken closing springs, that sort of thing, but never found anything.  so the guide thing does make sense, and there's a few we never did anything about because it would have been a big call to make under warranty when you have to back up the diagnosis with a fix that resolves the issue.  no fun when you're guessing on a problem the owner isn't really aware of and you're going to get paid for half the time you spend at half the retail rate.

i did one motor that we had in bits as it had run the big ends, but we just got them k-lined.  i wouldn't go to the trouble of replacing guides when even the later ones are a bit dodgy apparantly and the k-lines work so well.  we never did any others.

and we had plenty of 900 motors back when we did valve clearances at the first service where you could wobble the exhaust valves about a heap.  so the factory definition of 'ok' could perhaps be quite wide.  like bmw's allowable '1 litre per 1,000km' oil usage thing - if you make the spec wide enough then they're all ok.

Yeah you just need to get on one Spider and give it a go. Whatcha doing next Saturday? The bike is in storage at the moment, but I should have it back by then for my "last ride for 3 months" with Captain Slow. Maybe you can join us on the BR250, you'll be able to keep up  ;D

Frickin all right by me Big Brother Brendan (BBB, aka HCG)....I'll ride anything.....(no, George, not that weekend again...you sadomasochistic son of a b!tch)

I've got a new helmet coming over as of last Friday and gloves are done....so I could do that...

It's at the point I'm howling over 749's going by!

Were'we going? I'll pick some food spots!  ;D

and to get this back on thread....how do smaller capacity 4 valves stack up to the big capacity 2 valvers?

748/749/848 vs a 992 etc?

well spider went for one of my on any sunday ride today went up through a coulple of passes and there wasnt any thing new just lots of road kill a few camper vans some sheep and and few patches of gravel  any way on the way home going up a big straight got past by some big jap bikes and a coulpe other makes and the little girl said let them go but the sun was shinning and the birds were singing so i told her to shut up and turned acdc up and went for it buggered if we could catch them , i was yelling give me more scotty but there was no more but then we hit the pass and one by one the little girl carved them up thats when i new i was on the right bike for me any one can go fast in straight line  [bow_down]

Ian Falloon (Aus) produced a book along these lines a few years ago. It is probably about due for an update.

I have mostly ridden a two valver and had test rides on various four valvers.
My experience has been that the four valvers amongst other things are smoother to ride.

Ah Bazz sounds just like my dreams i have every time im about to have a track day ,only diff is i also flog them on the straight  [evil] I love  to grin at them as they walk past the pit gararge with a dirty look on their melons [cheeky]

yep dock and i forgot two things all so we sound and look better too  [thumbsup]

Yes we do dont we ,  [wine]

what sort of riding you doing G?

I had a 2 valved in my garage for 12 months while a mate was overseas.....

Must say that it was "easier" to ride compared to my S4RT.....

The S4RT is a hand full. You breath on the throttle and it goeeesssssss very fast. I'm not a wheelie person but twist the grip in any circumstance and you can lift the front wheel.

The 2 valved still had plenty of punch but not as wild when the wrist was twisted.....

My preferences:

Round town 2 valved thanks...

On the twisties 4 valved please......

OK brad you got me, what the truck are k-lines ??
and my bike has used oil like an arab on a binge




                                                  Mmick

Spider, I would say mostly country riding with a few trackdays each year. Only occasionally do I ride around the city in Melbourne.

What Big T Says,
I recently decided to "commute" to North Sydney one day and Manly another, Busy traffic etc.. "HELL" on the S4RS 4V. There is no way I could do that too often. On both occassions I detoured the way home for a blast up old rd on the way home and then I was in love again...
Having never ridden a 2v I can only assume its a heap happier around town.
Depends on your riding, location and intention for the bike. I ride on occassional weekends, 4v perhaos a little over the top especially with full termi ecu etc but I love it.
P.S. Look on the bright side, Its a cool choice to have to make [thumbsup]

The 2V (1000DS) is good around town, I commute 130k round trip and it'd be hell on a 4V as the 2V still gets a bit snatchy and grumpy in traffic and wants to GO. [thumbsup]

Nothing wrong with the 2V either for the squirt through the twisties. It doesnt feel the need to try to point skywards with every gearshift which, can make for quick point to point riding. [evil]

k lines are basically sleeves for valve guides.

paul.

Hey....everyone....maybe we should call this thread....what is your favourite Ducati engine you've ridden (and why)...

Paul, you've got a heap of Ducati experience...what have been the highs and lows?

ime a well mapped 4v is nicer all over than a 2v motor.  the dp ecu for the s4r ranges seem a bit off down low, but when done right they're very nice.  the wheelie thing is due to engine style, capacity, wheelbase and seating position.  the seating position contributes a lot to the monster's wheelie ability.

a smaller engine really helps reduce that too, any of the 1000 2v should wheelie without thinking about it in first at least as well.

the s4 isn't as responsive as they tend to be a bit taller geared with the close ratio gearbox to maintain a resonable cruising rpm.  plus it's a bit smaller motor.

a well mapped 748 is quite amazing how smooth and easy to use they can be down low.  it's all about the quality of the mapping, any of them can be very nice when done right.  i think ita would back that up after his kitted s4r was mapped with the pc3.

we used to have a 'model comparison page' on the old site (which various members, including Big Ian, had contributed too), I wrote the second version of the data bringing it from 2004 up to 2008 and sent the data to Michael Moore....but at that point TOB was sliding down (unbeknown to the members) and being taken over by TDB (the dirty advertising-obsessed bastards).

Anyone with HTML skills, I could provide old and new data and you'd have to set it out and graph it to!

PM sent.

fave ducati engine?
the 888 of course!!!! revs like a bastard, has torque to go with it and it has personality in it's looks, add a big spaghetti system and some good mods and it is a rocket, well mine is, 123rwhp.

paul.

RWHP??   :D

Rampant Whopping Horse P@*$s??  ;D [laugh] [cheeky] [evil]

Perhaps it's Rear Wheel Horse Power as opposed to that measured at the countershaft.  ;)

Spider, I don't know how your feeling but I'm reading all this with similar interest. What do I replace my old girl with?

I loved my 2v and it served me well for both commuting and weekend squirts. I was really disappointed when I missed out on Rusty's S4RS but the timing was just too quick after the accident.

I took out an 848 for a test ride just before the accident, loved it but thought I couldn't communite on this because I just too short to be con fortable in the ride position. I've never ridden a 4v Monster but think that I'm keen to go with this option. I guess I'll just have to arrange a test ride to make sure it not too much of a handful on the everyday communite. Now if only I can convince Frazers to lend me an S4RS for a few days as a demo  [laugh]

Yeah, I think it's time I befriend one of the local salespeople and take some for a spin!

The 848 sounds great.....but out of my price range at present!

Hi Spider
I'm taking a Duc city 696 for test ride on 27th about lunchtime if you wanted to test ride something. But I spose you'll be working?

Heather

you know the boys there? If they have an 848 demo I'd jump at that...or a second hand 748....just to see what the lower capacity 4 valves are like!

you can do the bargaining ok.

I'll take that m1000 off your hands....we'll start by asking how much they'll give you for trade-in! then I'll beat it!!!!  :D

The sound of a 4V - nothing like it.
Lots of fast air rushing in and out of the engine in the power band. It's like a wind instrument. + a pull that knocks you back to go with it.   [thumbsup]

and then I'll have to buy a brand new 696??? Right [clap]

Shall talk to 'da boys' and see what they got for you to ride.

while the 848 is a great bike, i'd love one! they are very different to ride than a 4v monster, the gearing on a monster is waaaay shorter, and frankly perfect for the bike, a 14 tooth sprocket on a S4R or S4RS serves only to make 1st redundant, the std gearing is spot on for me, in town or on the back roads. if you want to try a 4v monster just go test ride one, as far as being a handful? they're not really, i'd go as far as to say if you think it's a handful then it's probably too much bike for you, no disrespect here but there's no point buying something you're not comfortable on, you'll just end up chopping it in and losing dough. I have had a 900, a S4 and i currently own a S4R (996 desmoquattro engine) and i've had the S4R for over 5 years now, the S4RS is nice, but for me at least not worth the change over or the hassle of setting up a new bike. There's no reason an early S4R wouldn't keep you happy for quite a while, and you get the benefit of someone else paying the bulk of your depreciation as well as the possibility of some bling/performance extras.
If you do look at 2nd hand there's a few things to look at, steering head bearings, chain and sprocket wear, bent/buckled front rims, all this relates to wheelies, they're easy to do with the power they have but ham fisted attempts make the beast with two backs the bike!! Other than that it's common sense stuff, crash damage, check all protruding edges for scuffs and scrapes, log books and service history, preferably with receipts for everything, i have receipts for rego label holders ferchrissakes!!!!! take someone with you, it's amazing how easily you can fall in love with something and overlook glaring faults, someone with no vested interest will have clearer sight and a common sense viewpoint, and lastly, ask if you can wash it, it's amazing what you see when you wash a bike, you can pick at bugs and see scratches and chips and find stuff that the keenest eye wouldn't pick up. And don't worry about horsepower numbers, the S4R (996) std makes about 115, modded about 120 to 125, the S4RS and S4RT (998) std make 123ish and modded 135 to 140, this matters not at all, they all make more power than you can use on the road, last weekend i chased a guy on a gsxr1000 (07 i think??) from kyogle to beaudesert and he never got further than 20 to 30 metres in front of me, and he was on slicks.


paul.

Ok Spider there's a demo 848 with your name on it for 1230ish Tuesday 27th January at Duc City.  As this is a weekday it will be just us not the usual big Saturday test ride crowd.  See you there. (No 748s in stock sorry). 

Heather

excrement!!!!

hot shit!!!!

I take it that means you are okay with this arrangement.  ???  [laugh]

actually, after reading the article in today's age about Swedish road regulations and Vicroads considering lowering the speed to 30 kph....I might as well just keep riding bicycles - although I'd be breaking the law most times on that as well....as we know riding a Ducati at 30 kph isn't really possible for long periods of time.

The current government program of focusing on speeding (and the revenue it delivers) is really starting to sh!t me....the accidents and near misses I see every time I'm out there have nothing to do with speed - they have to do with inattentiveness. People are unwilling to concentrate on anything these days but the government keeps blaming speed....because it's a measurable amount I guess (like the roadtoll).

I'll keep pedalling!

Yep I hear ya !! The Authorities here in Mextoria are now arbitrarily chosing a 2k or 3k leeway on camera fines. [roll]

I've actually seen 2 exceeding 60kph infingement notices, 1 for 63kph in a 60 zone and a 64kph in a 60.
On the 63kph a leeway of 2kph was used which made 61kph and the infingement was duly issued!!
On the other the leeway of 3kph was used and 61kph was the result and Bingo another one down.

So it appears the leeway is totally adjustable so that a few more of these heinous criminal speeders can be made to pay their debt to society.  >:(

I reckon if you asked a cop what the infingement codes were for failing to signal, failing to give way and even tailgating they wouldnt have a clue cos they probably havent issued a "Tinny" for these for quite a while if ever!! But they'll know the speed infringement codes off by heart.

Thats where the road carnage starts, inattentiveness and "dont give a shit " attitude. If people start getting booked for these socalled "little" things they will have to lift their game and start to concentrate on what they are doing to be able to use the vehicles correctly. [roll]

If they arnt concentrating well enough to apply themselves to these "minor" acts they arnt attentive to others around them and their car control is poor and therefore traffic conflicts occur!! Then speed becomes a factor because they have to be moving to crash into something, but was the speed in excess of the limit?? Quite often no, they'll call it excessive speed (In brackets "for the conditions" ) but the authorities never let the facts get in the road of a good story. [roll]

Its a nice little money spinning racket aint it?? :(

You guys have hit the nail on the head with the inattentiveness line. Problem is the authorities use this as justification for reducing the speed limits too ... of course this only makes things worse - people relax more, minds wonder, accidents happen.

... and when the accidents happen, speed is blamed as there obviously wasn't enough time to avoid the accident - umm, well no ... by the time due attention was paid it was all too late

also, don't go taking this as anti-cop, this is anti - Traffic Management Unit ranting....don't think many real cops like this sort of working as well...

believe it's called 'jury f#cking', which is you take a member of the general public, hit him up with fines for doing 3 kph over the speed limit, he turns into a 'anti-cop' (yes, we have them here) and they see the blue and hate it....then that person gets called for jury-duty....police have spent huge amount of hours getting this genuine criminal to court just to lose the case cause the TMU turned the jury into a bunch of police-haters....you can imagine how hard it must be for someone working on armed-robbery cases, trying to get the hard criminals off the street meanwhile you've got another division p!ssing everyone off!

Dont get me wrong either, as far as being anticop, I'm most definately not!! But I will call a spade a spade! I have good friends, inlaws and sort of surrogate family that are in the job. ;)

But I do get pissed with the holier than thou attitude of the TMU wallies and the like who extoll the virtues of the Governments and Force Commands Road Safety strategies as the ducks guts (Pun not intended  ;D) to stopping us from killing ourselves, when ANY thinking person can see them for what they are!! Blatant revenue raising and being seen to be doing something exercises. [roll]

Its also the opinion of quite a number of the Boys and Girls in Blue, according to the ones I have talked to. ;) Except Traffic Management Unit people of course. ;) The statements that "They would book their own Grandmothers" and that "They get a Phat chasing people" are oft used by the non TMU Constabulary!! They also reckon there is waaay too much political interference in Law Enforcement, and in particular Traffic Enforcement in this State!! [bang]

So.... these a genuine ducati part or aftermarket? And what benefit do they have over whats in the bike now (stock)?




                                            Mmick (need to know bloke)

they're aftermarket, think of them as basically a re sleeve for worn guides. they work well when installed correctly and the other advantage would be  that they are a known part, you can install them in guides that have worn prematurely due to being poor quality and they're fixed, sometimes a warranty issue is fixed by replacing faulty parts with the same batch of faulty parts and you would have to go through the whole scenario again, at least using K lines they're fixed, for good, usually.

paul.

And available from? [thumbsup]

just about any decent engine reconditioners or machine shop.

Umm ... I'm free on the 27th at 1230 !  [roll] ;D

Anybody got sizes required??  ???

yeah, according to the wife and every previous girlfriend, I definitely have the size required.

(Dragon, this is the weirdest thread jack you've EVER done!)

 ;D ;D ;D

Err, Umm you dirty minded sod [evil] ;D

Trust you to interpret something that is inevitably refering to the largeness (Or lack of  [roll] ) size of the family MEMBER ??  [laugh] [clap]

So what would you like to test ride? Or are you coming for a ride to keep us company?

Mmmm whats on the menu???

Well I'm having the 696, Spider's having the 848.  Not sure what else they got.  You live closer maybe you could just 'pop' in and see what takes your fancy (hands off the 696 - I said it's mine!  grrrr ;D) 

If you find something that appeals let Jo know so she can book you in with us.

Ha this is starting to look like a Saturday morning test ride group albeit a DMF test ride group  [thumbsup]  The more the merrier but don't any of you ever go to work?

Dos, Dragon, Ptooey, Marco what you want to test ride?

Dos will have the Bianchi Ducati bicycle - cause that's what he's allowed to ride these days....the only thing that's valid in his wallet is his library card  ;D

(didn't stop him giving me crap the other day for not having the chrome safety sticker on my helmet!)

They do have ducati pushys there.  Shall I put his name down?  Wonder if he'll be able to keep up.   [laugh]

now remember guys only air cooled ducatis are real ducatis  [thumbsup]

Have they got a new 1100 monster in store yet?

Not sure when the 1100 Monsters are coming. Didn't MattyVas say they won't be out until April or was that the Streetfighter?

I understand that they'll be in next month.

I have by bike shorts at the ready  ;D They are purrdy bi-cycles, but I have 2 pushy's already, so doubt I wil be allowed another one. And now I actually have to use them - jeez it was warm riding home from work yesterday.

Heather, I should be able to keep up to Spider, he will only be pushing the 848, he's not allowed to ride it 'cos his helmet won't be Australian Standards Approved.  [evil]

geez brother, you obviously haven't had your anti-pregnant dog pill this week!  [laugh]


(oh,oh, check my post count: 1098!!!!) - that's it...I'm out....no more posts!

What was Troy riding then?     [cheeky]

Gee guys settle down now kiss and makeup  :-*