Ok, so I changed my oil and filter about 100 miles ago. Just recently I saw some oil under the bike. It was coming from the filter. I tightened it a little more by hand, still leaking. I changed filters (yes, I put old oil on the gasket) and followed the recommended torque spec of 8 ft/lbs this time. I also checked and cleaned the mating surface on the block. No cracks, no debris. I started it and No aparent leaking; however, after returning from a long ride, there is oil on the bottom of the filter again. It is seeping ever so slightly. This does not leave a warm and IZ_ feeling in my head when going into turns. WTF is going on here? I've been changing my own oil and filters for over 15 years on my street bikes. This is the first one I've had problems with.
Anyone else have this problem? I did a search and found some similar issues, but no explanation or way to solve this problem.
Quote from: cgos4r on December 30, 2008, 03:01:53 PM
Ok, so I changed my oil and filter about 100 miles ago. Just recently I saw some oil under the bike. It was coming from the filter. I tightened it a little more by hand, still leaking. I changed filters (yes, I put old oil on the gasket) and followed the recommended torque spec of 8 ft/lbs this time. I also checked and cleaned the mating surface on the block. No cracks, no debris. I started it and No aparent leaking; however, after returning from a long ride, there is oil on the bottom of the filter again. It is seeping ever so slightly. This does not leave a warm and IZ_ feeling in my head when going into turns. WTF is going on here? I've been changing my own oil and filters for over 15 years on my street bikes. This is the first one I've had problems with.
Anyone else have this problem? I did a search and found some similar issues, but no explanation or way to solve this problem.
If you're just tightening it by hand, tighten it more. Try an oil filter wrench. Some people have been getting leaks from just hand tightening.
Also, this topic would probable be better off in the Tech section.
Quote from: DarkStaR on December 30, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
If you're just tightening it by hand, tighten it more. Try an oil filter wrench. Some people have been getting leaks from just hand tightening.
Thanks but,cCheck my post, I tried that first, but the second filter I torqued it to 8 ft/lbs. I've heard 11.5 ft/lbs and 8 ft/lbs. Can someone confirm the correct torque spec.? Both of those sound a bit much, but this is my first Duc.
So it's leaked with two different filters? Each tightened differently? And you've checked for debris on the mating surface, and put oil on the gasket. Hmmm. . . . I'd just ignore the torque specs, crank it down a wee bit more and see if that works.
P.S. It sounds like you've confirmed the seepage is from the filter and not coming from higher up on the bike and working its way down to the filter?
Quote from: DarkStaR on December 30, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
If you're just tightening it by hand, tighten it more. Try an oil filter wrench. Some people have been getting leaks from just hand tightening.
My ex had a 1995 900ss/cr that required maximum torque applied to it in order for it to not leak. Got me what the spec was, we did everything short of deforming the cartridge putting it on.
Trust me, it took a lot of force.
... but it worked for the 45000+ miles she had it.
:) Chris
Make sure that an old filter gasket is not stuck to the bottom of the case. That happened to me once on my Tacoma.
I don't use the 8lb torque spec and I've never had a problem...I used hand tight and then a half a turn...and usually I've never had a problem...no matter what brand of filter...
Quote from: pompetta on December 30, 2008, 04:02:33 PM
Make sure that an old filter gasket is not stuck to the bottom of the case. That happened to me once on my Tacoma.
[thumbsup]
Quote from: pompetta on December 30, 2008, 04:02:33 PM
Make sure that an old filter gasket is not stuck to the bottom of the case. That happened to me once on my Tacoma.
[thumbsup] x 2
This happened on my 2004 800sie. The gasket was in the bottom of the oil pan after draining, instead of sticking to the case or the old filter.
Quote from: pompetta on December 30, 2008, 04:02:33 PM
Make sure that an old filter gasket is not stuck to the bottom of the case. That happened to me once on my Tacoma.
He checked it already.
Quote from: cgos4r on December 30, 2008, 03:01:53 PM
I also checked and cleaned the mating surface on the block. No cracks, no debris.
The spec is 11nm which pretty much = 8ft/lbs
FYI I always use 11 ftlbs.
another couple of things I have found is that some times if it is just seepage it may be the old oil around the filter and not actually a leak. does the oil look old or new?
What is the range of your torque wrench? if you are using a torque wrench that is at the edge of its range it will not be very accurate anyway. for 8 ft lbs you will want an inch pound gauge that ranges somewhere from 24 to 120 inch pounds, if using a foot pound variant it will need to start at 5 ftlbs and probably will under-torque until over 10-15 ft lbs. this is why I use 11 ft lbs as my snap on starts at 5 ft lbs.
Quote from: chris on December 30, 2008, 03:51:49 PM
My ex had a 1995 900ss/cr that required maximum torque applied to it in order for it to not leak. Got me what the spec was, we did everything short of deforming the cartridge putting it on.
Trust me, it took a lot of force.
... but it worked for the 45000+ miles she had it.
:) Chris
+1 I used to do snug when I first got my '95 m900 but still got leaks. Switched to K&N filters and put them on tight instead of snug and have no more problems w/ the filter.
Quote from: ducvet on December 30, 2008, 06:01:16 PM
The spec is 11nm which pretty much = 8ft/lbs
FYI I always use 11 ftlbs.
another couple of things I have found is that some times if it is just seepage it may be the old oil around the filter and not actually a leak. does the oil look old or new?
What is the range of your torque wrench? if you are using a torque wrench that is at the edge of its range it will not be very accurate anyway. for 8 ft lbs you will want an inch pound gauge that ranges somewhere from 24 to 120 inch pounds, if using a foot pound variant it will need to start at 5 ftlbs and probably will under-torque until over 10-15 ft lbs. this is why I use 11 ft lbs as my snap on starts at 5 ft lbs.
Thanks! Mine starts at 10 ft/lbs, so I will try 11. Man, even 8 seems a lot to me, but I've always done the hand tight method until now.
EDIT: I just checked the max recommended torque. It is listed as 12 Nm which is 8.85 ft/lbs. hmmm
The shop I worked at did not torque them for many years and I know for a fact that we were exceeding the 11 ft lbs. the only problems we had were when a customer could not get the filter off. I started torquing them to keep the customers happy. with the higher torque you should loosen them with the engine warm, when the motor is cold they will be much more difficult to remove.
Thanks!
I had this exact thing happening to me. Once I got over the torque spec and started cranking them with filter wrench the problem went away and never came back. [thumbsup]
Had/have a similar problem with my 696. Oil change at 600 then at around 2500, after sitting for three weeks, started up and leaked. Leaked on and off for a few hundred miles. Then it went away. Strange. Check oil levels, down about an 1/8th of a quart. No leaks in the last 1000 miles (at 5k now).
I imagine it has something to do with the temp changes, expansion of the gasket, etc.
Ok, I torqued it to 11 ft lbs. After a 200 mile ride today I checked under the bike and there is oil all over the crank case leading from the filter! WTF? I'm starting to think my case is cracked up there or is warped!! Suggestions before I take it to the dealership?
Crank it down more!!!
Also, what filter are you using?
FWIW: I noticed the gasket on the ducati filters are very hard. Unlike the O-ring type gasket on my car's filter, the ducati filter seems to need more tq to get the squish to seal properly.
Quote from: cgos4r on January 01, 2009, 04:03:38 PM
Ok, I torqued it to 11 ft lbs. After a 200 mile ride today I checked under the bike and there is oil all over the crank case leading from the filter! WTF? I'm starting to think my case is cracked up there or is warped!! Suggestions before I take it to the dealership?
You can add dye to the oil, and check it with a UV light. They sell these kits pretty cheaply. Or even automotive repair shops could add the dye for you. Drive it for a bit, then check it with the light. Any chance of it leaking somewhere else and running down the filter? I would try a new filter at this point. Maybe theres a bad crimp on the oil filter- flawed filter.
No worries lets get back to the basics then.
pick up another filter, you do not need to empty the crankcases to swap filters, you will loose a small amount of oil but not much.
pull off the old filter and inspect the filter area very closely, clean this area very well leave no oil residue. make sure there are no gaskets left up in there, oil the new filter gasket and install the new filter. last step will be to check for leaks, swing by the local drug store and pick up a can of spray foot powder. Make sure it is the white powder type there are some that leave no trace . spray down the area and then run the bike until it comes up to temperature, look for any leaks the white powder will show you where the oil is coming from.
You may want to do this before pulling off your filter now, it would not be the first time a leak elsewhere "looked" like the filter caused it.
Check the flange of your filter to make sure the threaded inner boss is not bottoming out on the threaded nipple preventing the seal ring from compressing
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, it is appreciated! [thumbsup]
So, I put another filter on (my last Ducati filter, next will be a K&N) and torqued it to 11.5 ft/lbs. Before doing so, I got underneath the bike again and inspected everything using a halogen light this time. Everything looks nice, clean, and in tact. I didn't drain the crank case this time, so I had a small seeping of oil, but it was manageable. I cleaned everything (except for a tiny bit of the seepage) and installed the filter.
As noted above, these o-rings are very hard and thick unlike some I've used on cars and other bikes. Hopefully it works this time. I'll let you know.
Quote from: cgos4r on January 01, 2009, 08:10:14 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, it is appreciated! [thumbsup]
So, I put another filter on (my last Ducati filter, next will be a K&N) and torqued it to 11.5 ft/lbs. Before doing so, I got underneath the bike again and inspected everything using a halogen light this time. Everything looks nice, clean, and in tact. I didn't drain the crank case this time, so I had a small seeping of oil, but it was manageable. I cleaned everything (except for a tiny bit of the seepage) and installed the filter.
As noted above, these o-rings are very hard and thick unlike some I've used on cars and other bikes. Hopefully it works this time. I'll let you know.
noticed the same thing on my 2002 monster 750.
you never replied to let us know what happened? did it leak again after doing what you did?
Has already been said a bunch of times, but I'll chime in too just for more reinforcement. Mine leaks like a sieve if I torque it to spec. I just tighten it until it stops leaking, which is pretty tight. No problems so far with this method.
One more vote for just keep tightening it. I had one filter that I never got to stop leaking, and it was tight. The next oil and filter change and no more leak.
yeap the ducati filters seem to use a harder rubber so you really have to do the whole hand tighten till you feel the filter hit the seating, then like zoom said, approx another 1/2 turn of the filter, it will be tough and you might have to use a filter wrench to do so but the 1/2 turn works.
the k&n that i used i followed the instructions on the box which said something like that, in other words hand tighten then another 1/2 turn or something and it worked out fine.
A really good wrist and arm crank can easily push it over 8ft llbs so dont worry ,I always clean the whole inner filter area with a clean rag so no old crud or oil can drop.
I couldn't get OEM filters to not leak. And I couldn't get them off. I switched to K&N after several people extolled the virtues of the nut on the bottom. Now I just tighten them "snug" and they come off just fine.
Quote from: mergatroyd on February 25, 2011, 02:50:31 PM
I couldn't get OEM filters to not leak. And I couldn't get them off. I switched to K&N after several people extolled the virtues of the nut on the bottom. Now I just tighten them "snug" and they come off just fine.
i tighten mine as hard as i could by hand because the oil filter wrenches cant fit... (my custom exhaust pipes are on the way) its good so far. no leaks.
I have 24k on mine now and I've noticed something with this oil leak;
Around 3 - 4k after a new filter is put in, the seal starts to leak. But only with Ducati branded filters.
Sooo, it seems the quality of the rubber is in question OR Ducati has come up with a great change oil reminder. This has happened consistently over the last 5 or 6 oil changes. It's like clockwork, ducati filter leaks at about 3.5k
My suggestion, switch. I did and no more leaks each time. From now on, no more Ducati filters