Of course I realize that given the current economic situation the present might not be the ideal time to sell a Monster but at which point would a Monster be basically un-saleable? (SP? Is that a word to begin with?) -- I've got 16,500 miles on a '98 M900 that has been modded to the max. I mean it. Short of carbon wheels, practically name a mod and it's got it. FCR's, brakes, Ohlins rear, etc. Not that I really want to sell it with my heart of hearts but there are a couple other rides that it could morph into that could be just as much fun. I've had it listed at 5K then dropped it to 4.7 with barely a nibble. True, out here in the islands it is a very limited market and it would make no sense for anyone on the mainland to have it shipped back. I could take most of the mods off , sell them separately and sell the bike at a reduced price but what if it still doesn't sell? Then I'd end up doing double (or would that be quadruple) labor if I ended reinstalling everything I removed. Is there a vintage and mileage at which point you end up owning the thing until the bittersweet end?
That's a tuff question. I see alot of Monsters for sale on this Forum, that never sell. I have spent so much money on my bike, I'm stuck (not a bad thing) with it. ;D
I think that if you try hard enough, there is a buyer for anything. With that being said, at what point is it not worth the effort.
When I bought my monster, the salesman (monster owner also) advised me to hold onto everything I swap out to reinstall if I ever decided to sell or trade. I would have to guess that you would come out better $ to part out the aftermarket stuff and sell or trade the bike "stock". My situation with my bike in mind, the time and effort I have put into it is priceless. (and I haven't performed near the level of mods you were talking about) I would have to keep my monster and just park something else beside it. Just my opinion.
If you have a lot of expensive mods, parting it out would probably net you as much or more than a complete sale. It would also allow you to sell/ship to an international market.
Some lessons I've learned about buying and selling motorcycles:
1. Most buyers of used motorcycles borrow money to make the purchase.
2. Lenders determine the amount they will loan on "book values."
3. "Book values" are based on basic un-modified un-accessorized bikes.
4. Lenders will not loan money for mods and accessories and may shy away from such bikes.
5. Market value is largely determined by the amount that lenders will loan and what they think the value is of any particular bike.
Therefore,
1. You may be able to get some of your money back (50%?) on accessories you can remove from the bike.
2. Any permanent accessory or mod generally does not add to the value of the bike and may even detract from its value. The money you spent for these things has mostly vanished.
3. An exception may exist if you can find a buyer that can pay cash and appreciates and values the mods and accessories on your bike, but then we are really not talking about the marketplace.
4. Think before you accessorize and modify. How long will you really want to keep this bike? Are you a passionate motorcyclist subject to sudden bouts of motorcycle lust that will compel you to do anything to sell your bike in order to get another?
Also, locale plays a significant role in selling motorcycles. HDs are the hot sellers in my region. Motorcycles do not sell well in retirement communities like Green Valley, AZ. If possible, advertise and sell in large population centers. Owning a motorcycle on American Samoa is probably going to be a long term experience.
So, you may need to adjust your thinking and just take your lumps. Your bike will surely sell in your market for some price, maybe half of what you think it is worth. Or, just keep it and add other bikes.
its an unfortunate truth, but all the mods we do to our bikes are rarely worth what we think they are (on the bike anyway)
By all means, sell the mods seperately.
Several years ago, I tried to sell my 1980 FIAT SCCA EP car. I offered it at $2k, and had no interest, so I tore it apart and ebayed the parts.
I netted over $4500.
I have kept every single nut and but from all the OEM-spec stuff removed from my bike.
If i ever go to sell, everything down to the damn emissions can is going back on, and all my goodies are coming off for you guys!
Of course, there are worse things in life than being "stuck" with a really cool motorcycle.
After looking through many ads for bikes and watching others sell their bikes I have come to the following conclusions.
1) Mods left on the bike are worth roughly 25% of their original price.
2) Mods taken off and sold separately are worth roughly 50-70% of their original price.
I would take off all the mods that are worth a significant amount of money and sell those separately. Leave the smaller stuff on the bike such as LED blinkers etc.
Quote from: herm on January 02, 2009, 06:58:37 AM
its an unfortunate truth, but all the mods we do to our bikes are rarely worth what we think they are (on the bike anyway)
This is true. When I purchased my M750 used, it was $3000 and had carbon Termi's. At that time, a set of replacement pipes was going for $1200. That's almost half the price of the bike, so I'm guessing the PO didn't get the $1200 he spent back out of his pipes. Not to mention it also had a belly pan with a replacement cost of nearly $400, now the accessories are OVER half the price of the bike. It also had Two Brothers clip-ons as well. Those aren't cheap, but I don't know the replacement value of them at that time.
JM
Quote from: Norm on January 02, 2009, 07:55:29 AM
Of course, there are worse things in life than being "stuck" with a really cool motorcycle.
I know, I know. ;)
Consider this, you've got a 10 year old bike that performs like a 20 year old jap bike.
To a non-ducatisti, what's it worth?
It's all about timing. Like others said get your bike back to stock. Sometimes you can find people who want your mods on the same bike you have, swap them for their stock parts and have them pay cash for the exchange. Then sell the bike as spring is ending and summer starts thats when everyone is looking for a summer ride. I've bought both of my monsters used and if I made money back off the first one and should have no problem at least breaking even if not making money off my current bike. If you buy new there is almost no way of recouping the value other than knowing you're the only owner.
It`s a difficult thing to guage, what it`s worth until the right person sees it.
I am selling at the moment also, mine is a 2005 M620 with a decent list of items on it.
They add up to more than half of what I paid for the bike in the first place.
I am asking just $2k more for the bike fully kitted.
You just have to find the right buyer as said, but parting it out certainly opens up the market for you.
I know I am not shy at buying from anywhere in the world as long as delivery is not over the top.
Quote from: mattyvas on January 02, 2009, 09:40:30 AM
It`s a difficult thing to guage, what it`s worth until the right person sees it.
+1. Im a type of person who would buy a pre modded bike for cheap. This means i can sell the parts, or exchange them for someone who wants that particular piece.
other people rather buy fresh mods, but those people are generally in a better economic situation than i am. So it ends up being, whos intrested. I purchased my bike 95 M944 for 4800 (mins tax and fees). It was modded up the ass. the thing was modded to hell. Probably only 25% of it was still stock. Ended up selling it fr $3300. I needed the money. I wanted an IE bike. So i took the hit. Sure the bike was worth more, but its only worth as much as the person that can afford it (and that you can reach out to).
I buy used parts all the time. In fact, there are no new parts on my bike. I bought a crashed speedy moto clutch cover, refinished it, used clutch plate, had it reanodized. Used cycle cat bars. used headlights. So theres defintely a market for used parts.
when its more than just a bike.
its family.
the worthless mods conundrum goes the same with cars. i had a 1988 Ford Mustang LX 5.0. Sweet ride, most fun i've ever had in a car. i paid $2k for it, bought off my uncle. i dropped about $2k into the suspension and brakes, the car handled like a mini cooper S, it was incredible. It handled so well in fact, that when i tried to oversteer it through a bend one day, it ended up catching traction and catapulting me into a grass embankment, and off a 3 foot drop. needless to say, i need to have some things straigtened out... This aside, after investing all this money in the car, i found that when i went to sell it, it was still... well... a hatchback 88 mustang with 100,000 on the clock. mods don't change shit on KBB or NADA, so unless your willing to take them back off, count on them being money invested, but not returned.
It kinda depends on your goal in selling the bike.
To get the most $?
To get it out of your garage?
To sell quickly?
To have to go to a owner who loves it?
Quote from: trouble on January 02, 2009, 08:55:20 AM
Consider this, you've got a 10 year old bike that performs like a 20 year old jap bike.
To a non-ducatisti, what's it worth?
OUCH!! But, so true.
I always regretted selling my '69 Norton Commando Fastback back in '72. I tell myself that this bike can be (is) another cool bike to keep until it dies, or I do. [laugh]
I knew going into the deal that the mods would only be worth it to me or somesuch other smitten Ducatisti. However, if I sell this bike and the Gixxer 750 then I could get an 848, maybe...... [popcorn]
Sell a bike?
That's blasphemy...
Seriously, I'll let cars come and go but only recently (with *my* garage being invaded with the wife's stuff and then the kid's stuff) have I started parting with vehicles.
And yes, the best money is to return the bike to stock (except the fiddly little bits) and sell parts separately.
Quote from: trouble on January 02, 2009, 08:55:20 AM
Consider this, you've got a 10 year old bike that performs like a 20 year old jap bike.
To a non-ducatisti, what's it worth?
Yeah, but it is a Ducati! That's what most people know.
I now have 6973.20 (eXcel spreadsheet) in my bike ...
That includes the $4400 purchase price last year ....
I would hope I could sell it for $4500, still in this economy ??? ...
So yea I consider myself "STUCK" with a really cool bike !!!
Just wish I could justify having TWO bikes as a 2006 GSXR 1k is sorta calling my name
~DaVe
IMO, mods aside there is a sweet spot. The sweet spot has nothing to do with age or model but rather having a bike for sale with less than 10k miles (less than 7500 is even more ideal).
Using the forum as a guide for micro examples. derby's s4r sat forever with the only real tell tale being the 16k plus miles.
my s2r likewise sat for over 3 months at a price well below book with or without the mods, my bike likewise has 16k plus miles.
Thankfully I have rode out the storm and will be keeping it - good thing because unless I was willing to sell it for 3k or less (fat chance) i'm officially stuck with it.
Quote from: COWBOY on January 03, 2009, 03:12:48 PM
Using the forum as a guide for micro examples. derby's s4r sat forever with the only real tell tale being the 16k plus miles.
my s2r likewise sat for over 3 months at a price well below book with or without the mods, my bike likewise has 16k plus miles.
I have 30k+.
No offers, yet.
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 03, 2009, 04:16:50 PM
I have 30k+.
No offers, yet.
I want your bike, I just don't have the funds right now to make it happen [bang]
Quote from: bryant8 on January 03, 2009, 05:18:57 PM
I want your bike, I just don't have the funds right now to make it happen [bang]
I accept liquor, various drugs, and attractive women. ;)
Ah well-hopefully it'll go to a good home.
I read recently that there is a glut of used bikes for sale in the US and that Dealers may not in some cases take trade-ins this year since the Dealers have too many used bikes in their inventories.
With all the new models coming out in '09 this is going to be a very interesting year especially if the Dealers don't take trades ! Dolph
I didn't try long to sell my 03 base 999. It had 07 "S" motor, and tons of other goodies. NADA was $8500, I was asking 12500.
I've gotten north of 18K parting it out, and I'm not done yet.
Glad I parted it :)
Vehicles are notoriously bad investments. We ride them for the thrill they give us, the fun of modding them out and making them our own, and cry at what we have to sell them for in order to get them out of our garage.
Don't put money into a bike for a return on investment. Do it because you love it and want it (no matter what the price!!)
Maybe you should retitle this thread "When can you no longer sell your Monster for almost as big a wad of cash as you paid for it" since that is pretty much what you are asking.
I have no problem being stuck with mine.
Quote from: lauramonster on January 03, 2009, 09:14:12 PM
Vehicles are notoriously bad investments. We ride them for the thrill they give us, the fun of modding them out and making them our own, and cry at what we have to sell them for in order to get them out of our garage.
Don't put money into a bike for a return on investment. Do it because you love it and want it (no matter what the price!!)
+11tb
I think I've probably only made money on one old car that I've had over the years, and that's because I sold it as a rolling chassis and parted the drivetrain.
Bikes....well, lost my ass on every one. Probably because I keep them too long after they're completed instead of selling when I should.
Oh well, makes for a nifty photo album. :)
i see that you are in Hawaii. Have you advertised around the military bases? (I am a military guy, this isn't trying to stick it to them), but they are on a constant cycle of being in and out and bring home a little more money than usual. I know pesonally about 10 guys that the week we got off the plane, they drove up on new (to them) motorcycles.
Quote from: factorPlayer on January 04, 2009, 12:48:44 AM
Maybe you should retitle this thread "When can you no longer sell your Monster for almost as big a wad of cash as you paid for it" since that is pretty much what you are asking.
I have no problem being stuck with mine.
Nope. No need to change the title. That's not what I'm asking. The gist of the question, despite the different twists that are being put on this thread (which I have no problem with), is to have a discussion about when it seems that you can no longer sell the bike, mods or not. Cowboy may have hit that answer with the bit about the 10,000 mile benchmark.
I didn't buy it as an investment nor did I add the mods to increase it's value. I did both of those for the fun it has brought me and continues to bring to me. I've known from day one that if (when) it came time to sell that I'd possibly get more money by selling the mods separately. There would be a bit of labor involved as both side cases would have to come off to reinstall the original heavy flywheel and non-vented right side case. I don't think I'd get enough for those separately to make it worthwhile so it may not be an issue.
I don't particularly have a problem being stuck with it either. I can keep trying Craigslist over here and will do so from time to time. I have a small project on the Gixxer that might get finished this week and then the Monster will get fresh cam belts and a valve adjustment. I'll stick it up on Craigslist again after that just to see what happens. It's all good whichever way it turns out. [moto]
Bikes that I love i tend to keep for 10 years or even longer , so I will probably never sell the M750 and reckon the S4 is unsellable in Thailand anyway so they will be keepers.
jerry
you can always sell a running bike to someone.
provided the bike is in good workign condition and such, and running you can proabaly almost always get 800-1000 dollars for a bike because some beginner out there wants a bike to ride to learn on and then resell for the same amount.
now if you "think" your bike is worth thousands more then you will be sorely dissapointed when someone offers only 900 for it bc it has 35k miles on it and is 10-15 years old, etc... that is the nature of it.
but like someone else said the magic number may be 10000 miles, but then again if someone has a very well maintained bike that has 15k miles on it or so, and all the work was done perfectly with some good upgrades then someone may be willing to pay top dollar for it bc the mods may be worth it, ie, mbp collets, replaced valve guides, replaced rocker arms, etc... if all the work was done recently then its almost like you are getting a new engine in some ways, so physical age is no longer a real factor in some ways.
I have 2- S4Rss. One has 4300 miles , the other one has ( 7 ) miles on it .
Both bikes were bought within a month of each other.
The one w, 7 miles is stock except the black canister has been taken off.
I originally bought the #2 S4Rs as a replacement for when #1 S4Rs was no longer a capable performer and if Ducati no longer made a bike that I liked as much as the S4Rs.
Who knows what the S4rs w, 7 miles on it is worth ? Dolph
Quote from: DoubleEagle on January 04, 2009, 02:49:26 PM
Who knows what the S4rs w, 7 miles on it is worth ? Dolph
I'll give you 10K for it [evil]
I say keep it. Folks don't appreciate modifications to motorcycles as much as the owner/author/designer does. Most buyers look at the total cost price. You've designed the bike. Cash will come later.
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 03, 2009, 05:57:26 PM
I accept attractive women. ;)
Not anymore you don't. [laugh]
Quote from: SA_S2R on January 04, 2009, 04:10:45 PM
I'll give you 10K for it [evil]
That's been tried before with no success. Dolph :)
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 03, 2009, 04:16:50 PM
I have 30k+.
Mines currently showing almost 40k, they're only kilometers though, not miles. On the other hand, it is the third time it's shown 40k...
If I ever sell this thing, I'll have to get someone else to do it for me, there's no way I could keep a straight face saying to a prospective buyer "Yeah, I've had it ten years, but I only put maybe 4000km a year on it..." [laugh]
big
I'm starting to get jealous - you live in Hawaii, you have a steady job with full benifits, AND your "stuck" with a beautiful custom Ducati.
Quote from: Norm on January 05, 2009, 06:48:38 AM
I'm starting to get jealous - you live in Hawaii, you have a steady job with full benifits, AND your "stuck" with a beautiful custom Ducati.
Guilty as charged, to a degree. The ironic part is there is practically nowhere to really ride it unless we load up on the Superferry and go to Maui. No ferry service to the Big Island as of yet. No matter how we try to mix it up there are always, and I repeat, always the same roads. It's only a question of how heavy the traffic is, not whether or not there is traffic. Same story every year. You guys only get envious during the winter. 8)
Quote from: mac900 on January 04, 2009, 09:12:36 AM
Nope. No need to change the title. That's not what I'm asking. The gist of the question, despite the different twists that are being put on this thread (which I have no problem with), is to have a discussion about when it seems that you can no longer sell the bike, mods or not. Cowboy may have hit that answer with the bit about the 10,000 mile benchmark.
I'm confused as to why you would not be able to sell it, unless it is because you can't get some fraction of your investment back? As srbguy said, someone, somewhere will want to buy the bike for some amount.
But to put a different spin on it, once you start modding, you are narrowing the pool of prospective buyers down to people who would do the same thing to the if bike they bought it unmodified. Someone might buy the bike despite and not because of the mods. Personally, I would rather buy something unmodified, since I can't easily figure out the quality of the work put in to modding a bike, and on the general suspicion that someone rode the t1ts off the thing.
Since you live on a tiny island with admittedly few riding options I would say that factors in pretty heavily. Mileage is also a factor, but that still just affects price, not the possibility that someone would buy it for any amount.
Quote from: mac900 on January 05, 2009, 08:52:31 AM
Guilty as charged, to a degree. The ironic part is there is practically nowhere to really ride it unless we load up on the Superferry and go to Maui. No ferry service to the Big Island as of yet. No matter how we try to mix it up there are always, and I repeat, always the same roads. It's only a question of how heavy the traffic is, not whether or not there is traffic. Same story every year. You guys only get envious during the winter. 8)
That sounds like a punishment. You have an awesome bike but limited roads. I would die.
Quote from: mac900 on January 05, 2009, 08:52:31 AM
Guilty as charged, to a degree. The ironic part is there is practically nowhere to really ride it unless we load up on the Superferry and go to Maui. No ferry service to the Big Island as of yet. No matter how we try to mix it up there are always, and I repeat, always the same roads. It's only a question of how heavy the traffic is, not whether or not there is traffic. Same story every year. You guys only get envious during the winter. 8)
As a sailor you get little sympathy here....trapped in paradise....the sea is different every single time out.
But for biking I see your point.
If the bike is paid for think of it not as stuck with it, but as having a toy for use whenever you want...even if it's one time per year. It's the option to use it whenever that counts now. Toys with payments make people feel bad...paid off toys should be a source of joy no matter how often they are used.
I'm with Staler on that one!.... If it is paid off, keep it! Seasons change, you may end up moving to the Tenn/ NC border, then you'd shoot yourself for not having it!
Alright, I retract my "sympathy" statement, I've been to Hawaii and wouldn't consider it a bikers paradise. To make YOU envious, I live in the mountains near Asheville NC. [moto]
I know...... your stuck with it, when you buy a red capirex 620 that goes 140 and you find out it was never registered, and you cant register it, and you cant sell it cuz you cant register it..... so yer stuck.
If you're relatively "firm" on the price, then you're probably pretty "limp" on the idea of selling it.
But to echo what almost everyone here has been saying. You don't get money back for mods. Ever. Ask any Harley owner...
Two main reasons:
1. People won't pay extra for something they didn't ask for.
2. Used bikes are used bikes. The "extras" are a bonus for the buyer, not the seller. For proof of that, check out the value of any Ducati Dark vs. the normal version. The darks have lower grade parts (for the commonly replaced parts) and a cheaper paint job. Yet, when used, they sell for the same amount.
If you want to make the most possible money selling your bike, sell it piece by piece. A shame, since it sounds like a great bike, but it is the best way to get the most money back out of it. Now give up that silly idea, fire it up and go for a ride instead. If you're smiling at the end, then you should probably keep the bike.
Quote from: bobspapa on January 06, 2009, 07:08:59 AM
I know...... your stuck with it, when you buy a red capirex 620 that goes 140 and you find out it was never registered, and you cant register it, and you cant sell it cuz you cant register it..... so yer stuck.
LOL. Now that's sucking stuck. I know of a couple other people with registration problems. Bad news it is. Wouldn't be so bad if there was a track that they could be ridden at. However, alas, no track exists either. Maybe that's double suck stuck.
And..... for Norm...... this weekend, after it takes about a minute to go through what passes for a series of turns, I shall think of you and curse softly under my helmet and hope that you have to throw another log on the fire. ;D
I just happened to see that one of the LARGE Ducati Dealers in the L A area has a used S4Rs w, 4500 miles for sale asking $11,495.
I mention this just to give a professional idea to what a particular used Monster may be worth or at least close to.
Also I feel much surer that my 7 mile S4Rs is worth more than the one w, 4500 miles, as much as at least $1000 more retail. Dolph :)