Ducati Monster Forum

I didn't really pay any attention to Moto racing until I got my duc last summer.  I started watching it and really got into it.  I really njoy it alot now but I still don't really understand the class thing.  Is Stoner "motogp" class and if so what size engine is that? What about Bayliss' class?

I'm not a gearhead so bare with me here.  I've read the the 1198 was a very close replica of the bike used in races but I thought the Desmosedici RR was the replica.  Are these two separate classes? Which is supposed to be faster?  Which of those two is closest to Stoner's bike?

It makes it easier to enjoy the sport if you know what's going on obviously.

You might wanna look/post in the "Racing and Trackdays" forum.  :)

will do.  My bad.   Mod, feel free to delete this thread.

I'm not the one to answer, not 100% sure, but I'm bored so I'll try anyway....

BTW - I've had the same experience with the discovery of moto racing [moto]

The Desmosedici D16 street legal replica with ~200bhp is a 1000cc 4 cylinder L (90 degree). It is quite close to what Stoner rides in the MotoGP. I thought the race version was a 800cc, but I might be wrong.
Troy Bayliss competed, successfully, in the SuperBike SBK Championships. His bike is close to the 1098R, which has a 1200cc 2 cylinder 180bhp engine. Ducati is now selling a limited series of that bike in Bayliss colors.
You can find out more on Ducati.com - and soon here, when the guys add information.

MotoGP is faster than SBK, but it's not by *very* much.

(you can move this thread yourself - an option down to the left, IIRC.)

1200cc 2 stroke is slower than a 1000cc 4 stroke.  Hmm..    This is where being a gearhead would come in useful.  I just get on it and ride, man.  [laugh]

MotoGP             

Official website:  http://www.motogp.com/
These are purely prototype machines, not production machines.  Riders include Stoner, Rossi, Hayden, Pedrosa (the douchebag), Colin Edwards, etc.  The manufacturer that compete (as of 2009) in the MotoGP class are Yamaha, Ducati, Honda and Suzuki (Kawi just dropped out).  Aprilia and KTM are common in the smaller classes (125-250).  They race all around the world in 16 different rounds.  There are three classes.

    125cc  -- 125cc 2 strokes.  Unless you follow MotoGP, you won't follow this class.
   
    250cc -- 250cc 2 strokes.  Unless you follow MotoGP, you won't follow this.  The class is due to change into 600cc 4 strokes at some point -- this year or next. 

    MotoGP -- This is the class you've heard of.  It is 800cc 4 stroke bikes.  The bikes are pure prototypes and cost a bizillion dollars.  They have tons of on-off parts or experiemental technology.  Two years ago, class allowed bikes that were 1000cc.  It was still called MotoGP back then.  The Desmosedici that is sold for the street is a street-going version of the 1000cc bikes before the class switched to 800cc.  The predecessor to the 1000cc class was the 500cc two-stroke class.   Rossi won championships on 500cc, MotoGP (1000cc) and MotoGP (800cc).

---

WSBK-- World Superbike. 

Official website:  http://www.superbike.it/pubb_EN/index.php
WSBK is a completely different race series than MotoGP.  It's the production bike racing series, i.e.. the bikes are based on productions machines, like the 1098R or the new 1198S.  You cannot use prototype machines in this series like you can (and do) in MotoGP.  In some cases, like the 1098R, the street version that is sold to the average customer is *very* similar to the race version.  The factory Duc is called the 1098F08.  Bayliss is the rider you probably know.  They race all around the world.  There are other classes/series that run along with WSBK -- like World Supersport (600cc). You'll find most big manufacturers in this series, including some others like Aprilia and BMW (for 2009).  No Harleys though.  Ducati has absolutely dominated WSBK for a long time now, even before Bayliss.

---

AMA

Official website:  http://www.amasuperbike.com/
This is the US series.  The bikes are based on production machines.  There are 1000 and 600 classes.  The Superbike class is what you've likely heard of.  It's pretty much dominated by Suzuki.  Mladin and Spies (who just went to WSBK) are the ones you may have heard about.  There is a big debate about what is going to happen to AMA this year, as the series was bought out by the guys who run NASCAR.  Big changes are afoot and some of the factories may not participate in 2009.  Who knows.

---

You *really* should rent or buy a DVD called "Faster".  It's from 2003, but it's an awesome intro in the world of MotoGP racing.

Thanks so much.  All good info.  I will definetely check out the film.

:o

Stopintime said 2 cyclinder (in other words, a V-twin), NOT 2 stroke.

The D16RR is a 990cc V4 "detuned" to 200 hp.

The premier class (Stoner, Rossi, et al.) now ride 800cc V4's.

The 250's and 125's (both were 2 stroke)are gone, replaced by 600cc 4 strokes.

Hope that helps.

No need.  You can move the thread yourself.  Just go to the bottom of the page and find the link to move the thread.  Or you could leave it here in General.  A lot of people may have the same question and might not wander into Racing and Trackdays to get the answer.

Already have.  You're in "Racing & Trackdays" now.

those other posts went up as i was typing my previous reply.  all the info is there.  The racing is amazing in all of the classes.

Crap.  Then watch out for derby.   ;D  [evil]

This quote is from Ducati.com on the '08 D16. Are they talking about an earlier model? Regarding the 1000/800cc.....

----------------------------------------
Bore and stroke measurements are the same as those on the D16GP6 - 1000 cc  (86x42.56), as are the characteristic positions of the Ducati desmodromic timing system parts (camshaft rotation axis, rocker arm centre and valve centre distance), valve angle, distance between cylinder centres and pulse timing, which uses the Twin-pulse solution applied on the racing engine.
----------------------------------------

The '08 D16 is the street version of the '06 (I think) MotoGP bike, back when they allowed 1000cc.  The current MotoGP race bike--also called a Desmosedici (sp?)--is 800cc and a couple of generations more modern than the streetgoing version.

Aha - that would explain it then [thumbsup]

Fascinating sport anyway!

FYI, with Ducs, if you look at the names of the bike, it'll give you a hint:

The MotoGP bike referenced above is called the d16GP6.  The name is the D16, followed by GP (for MotoGP) and the 6 for the year '06.

Similarly, Bayliss' WSBK bike is called a 1098F08.  That's a 1098R factory bike from '08.  Privateers or satellite teams in WSBK don't have factory bikes.  They run a 1098RS, which is a 1098R with a special race kit that makes it into an RS.  You generally don't have to be anyone special to buy a race kit (for example, a few people around bought a race kit to change their 749R into a 749RS), but the factory bikes tend to have some parts that aren't made available to anyone other than the factory riders. 

before 2007 the premiere class max was 990cc; now it's capped at 800.

not all the GP bikes are V4s.  some are inline; yamaha's M1 most notably.  they may have a max of 5 cylinders; honda's 990 GP bike was a V5.  at one point last year kawasaki was considering an inline 5 800.

250 is still here; the 600cc class was just announced but doesn't start 'til 2011, i think.  maybe '10, definitely not '09.  125 is not affected.

Speaking of '09. Anyone know where to find the schedule and more importantly which network might carry the races?

Motogp.com

Speed airs them; in the last 2 years 3 or 4 of them have also been on a major network.  But I would recommend getting a motogp.com subscription and watching them there.

Speed TV carries them (and sometimes the big networks), but don't bother with them.  Subscribe to motogp.com.  It's sooooo worth it.


Dates           Grand Prix Circuit

April 12 *     Qatar, Doha/Losail
April 26        Japan, Motegi
May 3          Spain, Jerez de la Frontera
May 17         France, Le Mans
May 31         Italy, Mugello
June 14        Catalunya, Catalunya
June 27 **   Netherlands, Assen
July 5 ***    United States, Laguna Seca
July 19         Germany, Sachsenring
July 26         Great Britain, Donington Park
August 16     Czech Rep., Brno
August 30     Indianapolis USA, Indianapolis
Sept 6          San Marino & Riviera di Rimini, Misano
Sept 20        Hungary, Lake Balaton
Oct 4           Portugal, Estoril
Oct 18         Australia, Phillip Island
Oct 25         Malaysia, Sepang
Nov 8          Valencia, Ricardo Tormo – Valencia

*     Evening race/course nocturne
**   Saturday
*** Only MotoGP class

Motegi in April, that's weird.  Making room for Hungary.

...the damn season can't start soon enough ;)

Where is it usually?  Don't remember.

About 4 before the end of the season.  The '07 and '08 titles were both clinched at motegi.

Ah, right.   [moto]  I never pay attention to which circuits come when 'cept for Qatar, Mugello, Valencia, Indy and Laguna.  And Assen, of course.  Cuz that logo makes me giggle like a f'n retard.   [laugh] 

(http://a7.vox.com/6a00b8ea067a51dece00c2251c55fff219-320pi)

[laugh] yes....

unless they changed the rules, you can run a 6 cylinder, but you'd have to carry the same weight penalty as a 5-cyl so there wasn't really an advantage.

The best is always the post-race interviews, when the riders are sitting in front of a whole wall of those logos.
 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

hmm, thought it was 5.

no limit, just different weight requirements:

http://www.fim.ch/EN/rules/Sportifs/ccrGP/2008/GP_tech_en.pdf (http://www.fim.ch/EN/rules/Sportifs/ccrGP/2008/GP_tech_en.pdf)


2.2 Classes

The following classes will be accommodated, which will be designated
by engine capacity:

125 Over 80cc up to 125cc – Maximum one cylinder

250 Over 175cc up to 250cc – Maximum two cylinders

MotoGP Up to 800cc – Unlimited cylinders

Four stroke motorcycles participating in the MotoGP class must be
prototypes. Those that are not entered by a member of MSMA must
be approved for participation by the Grand Prix Commission.

2.5.1 The following are the minimum weights permitted:

– 125cc motorcycle + rider 136 kg

– 250cc
1 cylinder motorcycle 100 kg
2 cylinders motorcycle 100 kg

– MotoGP
2 cylinders or less motorcycle 133 kg
3 cylinders motorcycle 140,5 kg
4 cylinders motorcycle 148 kg
5 cylinders motorcycle 155,5 kg
6 cylinders or more motorcycle 163 kg

If you like Faster (and you will), check out Troy's Story.  Same look-and-feel as Faster (even the same narrator), but it's all about Troy Bayliss, so it includes World SBK and MotoGP.

see The Doctory, The Tornado, and The Kentucky Kid also

weren't ppl having a hard time getting Troy's Story in a PAL version?

whatever.  they're not all V4s.    [cheeky]

Ducati supplies 'F' 1098's to some teams. (they have to pay for them).

errr.... who?  when?

That only applied to the 08 season as there were no RS models yet, the Sterilgarda team started the season off with exactly the same bikes as the Xerox team, only the exaust system were different ( Ackrapovic ) If memory serves me correctly

are you sure about that? they were listed as 1098RS08 during testing and in the race results.

That`s what I have been told by one of the race mechanics at testing at Kyalami at the end of last year, they were so similar that the Xerox team gave Sterilgarda Troy`s setup data after Biaggi trew his toys out of his cot during the middle of the season [thumbsup]

This year will be different though as the F09 are built specifically for the Xerox team

This article makes refernece to both the F06 & F08

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/mcn/2007/october/oct15-21/oct1507gseracingquitbsb/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/mcn/2007/october/oct15-21/oct1507gseracingquitbsb/)

yup... gse was the factory team in bsb.