Not shocked to see the data to back this up - But (shocker) when the economy and tax revenue is down as a result, a measurable increase in the number of traffic citations issue is seen... At least in NC
"...for every 1 percent drop in government revenue, the number of traffic tickets issued per capita increases by 30 percent the following year."
The anti-conspiracy theory vein in me does really see the Police chiefs mandating more tickets... But it is an interesting statistic, and the realistic side of me says 'eh, it figures..'
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/464966.html (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/464966.html)
Took a road trip this weekend, and in addition to becoming a part of this statistic [bang] I noticed alot more traps, people pulled over, etc...
It was also interesting that the area I noticed the higher than normal presence (& was ticketed) was an area that has been hit particularly hard...
Luckily, it isn't more tickets for not breaking the law...
Quote from: wbeck257 on January 12, 2009, 01:04:52 PM
Luckily, it isn't more tickets for not breaking the law...
+1
explains why i got doubled up the other day. :/
but how much of this is the [leo] starting to ticket people for things that they used to let slide or just gave written warnings l would like to hear a cop chime in on this to see what the actual reason is or if people are just becoming more lead footed
Quote from: tcspeedfreak on January 12, 2009, 01:33:49 PM
or if people are just becoming more lead footed
I wonder about this aspect of it. Times around tough, people are more stressed. Stressed people drive more aggressively, faster etc. It'd be interesting to see a study of how people rate their stress levels and run that against those ticket stats - I'd be we would see some correlations.
oh, you ment moving....
how about this?
NYC is propsing a law that allows cops to ticket a parked bike for having a loud exahust. (to be determined by the EPA rating on the exahust system)
Quote from: He Man on January 12, 2009, 01:44:11 PM
oh, you ment moving....
moving or non moving i was kinda thinking of any minor infraction that sometimes they would let you go for without a ticket
Quote from: He Man on January 12, 2009, 01:44:11 PM
oh, you ment moving....
how about this?
NYC is propsing a law that allows cops to ticket a parked bike for having a loud exahust. (to be determined by the EPA rating on the exahust system)
That's already it's own big thread. Totally crappy if they manage to pass it.
Anecdotally, I have seen a bunch of tickets handed out in my area. On Christmas eve, they had a freeway U-turn underpass next to a busy shopping center set up as a ticket trap - pretty much a colossal dick move in my opinion (The City of Houston, not the LEOs.) Why not wait a couple days, unless you are trying to, I dunno, make sure there are a bunch of cars out on the road?
And the CoH is the worst. I would rather be pulled over by the Spanish Inquisition. You either: send them a bunch of money by mail, OR spend a vacation day in court. There is no mailing anything in.
I once took option B, and spent six ass-numbing hours on a wooden bench. I spent about two of those, minding my own business, reading a book in the back, until I had to move closer to the front after speaking with Doogie Howser, Assistant District Attorney (I swear the dude was 17). When I opened my book again, I was informed by the bailiff that there was "No Reading, sir."
I was literally stunned. "No...reading?"
I was just about inquire about the court's policies on thinking or respiration or metabolizing calories when he shot me a look that said "three and a half more years till my pension"
Yes, sir, no problem.
Anyways, CoH, yay.
Generally speaking, tickets=revenue enhancement.
>:(
So now they are actually ticketing for illegal driving that went on before?
exactally
Maybe department's now are getting more money to put in place special units, like Traffic Enforcement.
They have one around here, about 5 cruisers during the day.
Both the wife and I have seen and experienced this phenomenon. I too would be interested in seeing some hard data to back this up. Unfortunatly this thread may already be stretching the forum guidelines though. [popcorn]
Well, speed limits are set artificially low in order to increase government coffers, so I'm not surprised.
Quote from: superjohn on January 12, 2009, 03:44:39 PM
Well, speed limits are set artificially low in order to increase government coffers, so I'm not surprised.
Because it's absolutely impossible to not drive faster than the limit. [roll]
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 12, 2009, 03:47:56 PM
Because it's absolutely impossible to not drive faster than the limit. [roll]
On a lot of highways around here it is. The trucks will run you off the road if you do 65 on the Thruway south of Harriman, NY for example.
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 12, 2009, 03:47:56 PM
Because it's absolutely impossible to not drive faster than the limit. [roll]
I don't think that's what he was saying Dave. Think of it this way, when you first turn on to a road, you can gauge pretty quickly what a safe speed should be. Now if you look at what the speed limit on the sign is, it's typically 5-10 mph lower than what the "safe speed" is...
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 12, 2009, 03:47:56 PM
Because it's absolutely impossible to not drive faster than the limit. [roll]
I think you're being sarcastic, but are you also implying that it
is possible to obey the speed limit??!! :o
;D
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 12, 2009, 03:47:56 PM
Because it's absolutely impossible to not drive faster than the limit. [roll]
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17509.msg310507#msg310507 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17509.msg310507#msg310507) [roll]
Quote from: NAKID on January 12, 2009, 04:02:46 PM
I don't think that's what he was saying Dave. Think of it this way, when you first turn on to a road, you can gauge pretty quickly what a safe speed should be. Now if you look at what the speed limit on the sign is, it's typically 5-10 mph lower than what the "safe speed" is...
I tend to think it's marked 20 to 50 lower than the safe speed outside school zones and residential neighborhoods, but that may be just me. There are plenty of areas on the beltway around the city where 130 makes total sense. I dare anyone to run under 80 on a bike and feel safe.
police departments should never be about raising money....ever. They should be a cost and a very big cost for a community. The pay should be very high and every person in uniform should be trusted as an absolute ally. Any fine type enforcement should be an extra...not a necessity. We're make the beast with two backsing this up badly and it will get worse before it gets better. I bet most good officers would love to be able to do their job without the pressure to be fund raisers.
Keeping this to speeding tickets as cash cow and carefull phrasing of the editorials should be fine as long as we're not slinging insults at anyone.
I should be glad my Monster's speedometer reads about 10mph too fast on the freeway. [leo]
Quote from: Craig Thomas on January 12, 2009, 05:03:19 PM
I should be glad my Monster's speedometer reads about 10mph too fast on the freeway. [leo]
yours too huh mine does the same thing but ive learned to compensate for that now and it doesnt make any sort of difference ah a 55 mph posted means my speedo should read 65 mph but more than likely it reads 70-75 mph
There are some countries in the world where the third week in every month is ticket week to raise the funds for the paychecks
Quote from: Statler on January 12, 2009, 04:51:38 PM
..police departments should never be about raising money....ever.
We're make the beast with two backsing this up badly and it will get worse before it gets better. I bet most good officers would love to be able to do their job without the pressure to be fund raisers.
Falls Church VA pd had some real problems with a similar issue. They WERE NOT on a ticket quota system. But, they were on a work quota so to speak. The department mandated that they had to average 3 enforcements of the laws per day. This could be as small as a speeding ticket, to a biggie like Grand Theft or assault.. but each incident counted as 1. So a 20 min ticket counted the same towards this average as an 4 hour theft investigation. As a result, a defacto state of ticketing quota became the norm, since the officers (understandably) didn't want to fall below this average and face reprimands etc. So if they spent a whole shift working though some big event like a crash, then they were still on the hook for 2 enforcement related tasks to keep their average.
When the FCPD policy made the news, it made a pretty big stink as it was seen as a ticket quota sytem.
PDs shouldn't be press-ganged to be fund raisers, there's much better work for them to do.
I still really like to see some driving stats, based on sources other than ticket numbers for the same time periods. Perhaps there is an enforcement bump.. but there's probably also more bad/aggressive driving.
i look at traffic tickets the same way as toll roads.
its a use fee. if you want to use the airspace beyond the posted limit, you may be required to pay for it. [thumbsup]
seriously though,... its pretty easy to stay unnoticed if you keep your speed consistent with the traffic around you.
Our assumptions that traffic tickets are an increasingly important source of revenue are being proven true.
Of all cities in the US, it's obvious that Detroit is under serious financial strain. The police are writing more tickets to compensate for their local funding shortfalls. Check out this article from the Detroit News:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081117/METRO/811170333&imw=Y (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081117/METRO/811170333&imw=Y)
Some highlights:
• In Romulus, there were 12,040 tickets written last year, which represented a 136 percent jump from the 5,091 violations written in 2002.
• The number of violations in Plymouth rose from 440 in 2002 to 2,584 in 2007, a 487 percent jump.
• In Detroit, there were 126,007 traffic tickets written in 2002, and 245,249 written in 2007.
• Southfield police wrote 13,724 tickets in 2002; in 2007 they wrote 31,795 tickets for an increase of 131 percent. [/i]
These are dramatic increases in the number of tickets written around the greater Detroit area. The population has certainly increased somewhat in these areas, but that alone can't explain the increase in the # of tickets being written.
Also, as Statler correctly noted, police officers aren't happy about their role as revenue collectors. Another quote:
"A portion of the tickets our officers write helps pay their salaries, but the rest is profit for the city," said Priebe, a former police officer. " 'Profit' may not be the right word to use in government, but that's pretty much what it is.
"Obviously, revenue isn't the only reason our officers are out there -- but I wouldn't be telling the truth if I said it wasn't a consideration."
As a CA leo I can tell you I have never been asked, encouraged, told, instructed, etc., etc, to write more tickets. I don't even know what the fines are but do know that most of them don't go to us. The City gets to keep all the revenue from a parking ticket but only a small percentage from a traffic ticket. So I'd be apt to pregnant dog about parking control.
Quote from: hbliam on January 13, 2009, 06:20:00 PM
As a CA leo I can tell you I have never been asked, encouraged, told, instructed, etc., etc, to write more tickets. I don't even know what the fines are but do know that most of them don't go to us. The City gets to keep all the revenue from a parking ticket but only a small percentage from a traffic ticket. So I'd be apt to pregnant dog about parking control.
I'm happy to hear it's not a pressure of your job. Stay safe, Scott.
well for things like parking tickets, there is no reason for that except revenue for the town or city. plain and simple
afterall why should i pay a ticket "fee" for parking on a spot on mainstreet when i already pay taxes for that town that go to things like road use and such, isnt' a parking space part of a "road"?
i noticed that towns with the biggest budget problems always have the best parking ticket enforcement known to man. bc like another poster said here, the ticket money doesn't go to the police department it goes to the town.
besides that, remember you never have to "officially' tell someone to do anything, you can always "tell them a story" about how when someone "didn't" do something something bad happened. then you have never "suggested, instructed, encouraged, asked" for anything to be done. all you did was "tell them a story", you know the way,"dont' sit there, bc one day someone that did well they fell over, so do what you want but that happened". translation=don't sit there or somethiing bad "MAY or may not happen". [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
This is DEFINITELY the case in NC. I drive 43 miles each way to work on the interstate every day. During my commute I encounter no less than 4 speed limit changes. Every one can be considered a speed trap as one usually spots a HP interceptor sitting right where the limit changes. If you are from out of state or not paying attention.... get ready to pull over. Yesterday on the way to work I counted 11, that's right 11, HP cars running radar. That's an average of 1 for every 4.3 miles. Kind of ridiculous.
Quote from: bluemoco v2.0 on January 13, 2009, 09:15:05 AM
Our assumptions that traffic tickets are an increasingly important source of revenue are being proven true.
Of all cities in the US, it's obvious that Detroit is under serious financial strain. The police are writing more tickets to compensate for their local funding shortfalls.
prolly has to do with Michigan's Driver Responsibility Act that was enacted in 03 that assesses a second fine/fee that's paid to the state and that money goes to ... you guessed it; law enforcement agencies. since they have cut funding for cops and entire posts every year since I feel it's a conflict of interest. Because cops are scared of loosing their job and tickets directly effect their job security I think they are put in an awkward position.
I've gotten more points in the last 3 years than the previous 15. I'll drive 55 and give my money to Toyota instead.