Ducati Monster Forum

my buddy just bought a 04 998 matrix edition ducati
guy selling it had only one key...no red key

is he prety much screwed , or are those different than monster and dont really require red key?

any help is appreciated

I bought a bike with only one black key. It's not a big deal. Do a google search typing in something like "Duplicate Ducati Key" and there are places that will cut you a new key. It's really quite easy, the locksmith just needs a device to read the transponder in the black key that he has and they can code another key for you.

I hope someone else chimes in but I'm pretty sure that if your bike came with a red key, you'll need it if you ever need to cut new keys cause you'll have to program any new key you get. So yeah, it is important. That key matches up to the immobilizer if your bike is equipped with one.

Someone will obviously correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if you do a search on the forum theres a  couple other threads about red keys.


Here's what I found with a search:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17843.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17843.0)

Howie's post in this thread has good info:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17076.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17076.0)

And this:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14364.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14364.0)

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=19941 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=19941)

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=21003 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=21003)

http://www.motorcyclekeys.com/ducatichipkey.html (http://www.motorcyclekeys.com/ducatichipkey.html)

These should help.

well there you go

1+ Just had a duplicate made today without the red key, but had one original black key.  There is too much "HOKUS POCUS" with this red key crap.  Ducati is rumoured to be doing away with the red key from my understanding; it is creating too much bad press for Ducati ownership anyway; its unfortunate; in concept it's a good idea as an antitheft device .... but in practice the red keys always seem to go missing sooner or later ....

There are people who can clone a black key from a black key, but this does not help with the computer/dash marraige problem.

where did you read/hear this?

it was something they said when they introduced the 1098 and the 696. no more red keys, but they still provide you with a card that has the coding on it for what the dealer would need to program any replacement keys. Also from what I recall, Ducati can now verify by link if that card is lost as they are logging the vin's with key codes like automobile manufacturers have been doing for almost 10 years now. immobilizer systems have prvoen to be a valuable asset and therefore not something they are going to do away with, but they are trying to make the process a bit easier. charging a customer $1600+ dollars for a whole new ecu and all the associated crap for a lost key was going over like a fart in church and giving a sour taste in Ducati owners mouths quickly. someone in their wisdom pointed them in the right direction, probably citing some of what the automotive industry does and we now have a more viable system in place, or so I understand from what I have extrapolated.

I think I read somewhere here that a member can reflash the ecu to eliminate the immobilizer.  Then red key is worthless...or not??

Monstermash be him.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=15504.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=15504.0)

I think the immobilizer is lame.


Say you steal a bike, and realize "hey, I can't start this thing." What's your next move?


Chop it up, sell it for parts.



The immobilizer ensures that if you're bike is stolen, that you're probably never getting it back. Way to be.


Just look at the people on here who have had their bikes stolen-you don't look for your bike on ebay-you end up looking for your distinctive parts. That doesn't do it for me.

Is that a bad thing?

If my bike gets stolen, I don't want it back.  I'd rather the ins.co. pay me, and I get a new bike.  But, that's just me.

The fitting of Immobilisers to motor vehicles is driven by the insurance industry. Some companies will not insure a vehicle that is not fitted with one

Wow...  I guess EVERY vehicle I own is possibly un-insurable by some insurers ~

JM

I had a bike stolen when I was in college -- an old Honda.  No immobilizer.  The bike was found about 5 months later.  The odometer had about 4000 miles on it more than when it left me.  After riding the shit out of it, apparently seizing the engine, they took the wheels and tank off and set it on fire in a corn field. 

Many bike thieves are just joyriders -- the others don't ride it off, they throw it into a truck and its parted up by that evening. 

The immobilizer stops joyriders, but will never stop the chop shops, and are not designed to.  Bikes have been chopped for ages.

From my understanding, the insurance institute in Italy forced Ducati to produce the immobilizer system. Since the Governament controls the insurance industry there as well, it became a requirement for them to implement. I beleive it was due to the high number of Ducati's beeing stolen in Europe. Hopefully they have come to there senses and made the 'red' key requirement mute from here on out. However for now, if you don't have a 'red' key you will not be able to perform some maintenance on the bike. The ECU requires the 'red' key (the red key is determined by the first key used to start the bike) to be in the ignition before maintenance is performed. So, you will not be able to reset the 'tool warning light' etc without it. Also, if interested there is an aftermarket ECU that will make the whole immobilzer moot, however, i think it is priced quite high. I think in the $1000 area. You can touch base with BCM in NH if interested in the details.I think there in NH, may be one of those other northern states ;)

Eh, I still feel it's more trouble than it's worth.

Great, the joy rider doesn't get the bike.  Meanwhile the low life punched out the lock, tried to hot wire it, then got mad and kicked the bike over on the side.  Now you have a non running bike with a large repair bill.  IMO, the immobilizer is good for preventing the rightful owner from operating their bike and not much more.

Having gone through an immobilizer issue is what motivated me to sell my 999. I loved that bike but after spending $3K on that issue alone I swore never again. The new versions are supposed to be more friendly. Maybe we'll see one day.

Did the 998 come with the red key ???

I agree it's a hassle sometimes, but think back to the days when we all had skeleton keys to get into our homes and cars barely had locks on them.  l

Ok, long and the short of it.  Back to the original topic.  The immobilizer started in 02' on most makes/models ducati.  The bike can start and run just fine without the red key but only if the immobilizer has not been activated.  The red key does 2 things. It will start and run the bike and it will activate/deactivate the anti-theft system (aka immobilizer) .  As long as the immobilizer is not activated then not having the red key is not a problem. 

You cannot cut a new red key from a black key it does not work that way.  The black key will only start/run the bike and operate the other locks but it will not do a damn thing if the immobilizer is active. 

So, all that being said if the bike from the original post does not have the immobilizer activated then it will run fine with the black key.  However, I thought the 998 was not produced in 04'.  I am pretty sure ducati had moved on to the 999 by then.

 

probably thinking of the '03.  Last 998 model year was 03, but I think some were rebadged as 04 bikes.

Sort of how USA had the 800SS for an extra year, but for the rest of the world, it was dead.

last year of the 998 officially was '04 because they had the "Matrix" editions and a few leftover "FE"s as they were badged...

as far as the origional post though, if the immobilizer isn't active as "Needtorque" says, you are okay for the single black key to operate the vehicle on a normal basis completely otherwise...the worry is if you lose that key or the system gets activated, you are stuck, because you need the red key to program any future black keys or unlock the system. It carries the algorythem to unlock the system and to allow for the system to to accept specific further black keys unique algorhythem to tell the computer that those keys are okay and programmed to operate the vehicle.

i was under the impression all of thsoe were rebadged '03s, even the Matrix..  they never put them on the website or in the literature for 04

being that the serial number has to correlate with the model year via the 10th digit, you cannot just rebadge a bike and call it a next model year...yeah, the factory may have had the leftover bits for bikes to produce short of VIN creation/stamping...but I think that particular specific part of the process is done when the frame is naked before assembly, and due to the resistance of the 999 design when introduced in late '02 and being that people were still racing the 998 in various series for the 03/04 season...there was a relative call for them to support the bike which meant a certain level of homologation for to do that...the "Matrix" edition helped them reach that goal with the movie correlation...and proved to be a good one as the Matrix bikes sold out before the FE's did...

Ducati has actually done this a number of times in the past.  The Pantaheads list has several examples of 750F1s that were rebadged (revinned?) to a later model year by the factory. 

I don't doubt you are correct about the '04 model 998s, but the manufacturer can re-vin a bike.

What does the key look like?

This is a key that has the bozomobilizer in it
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2224/2370048786_508774b7cc.jpg?v=0)

The below is the older non-bozomobilizer type

(http://interwit.com/keymakers.com/images/motorcycle/ducati_01_01.gif)

I hope that helps clear this up

Ducati has gotten away from the red key. My 696 doesn't have one, never did. ;D

The immobiliser is 'activated' each time the key is switched to the off position. i.e. the ecu will not initiate the start procedure until it receives a code from the instrument cluster, this code is required each and every time a start is requested. I am unaware of any immobilizer 'lockout' that requires the red key to reset, and wonder what and how this would be triggered.

The 'non' adjustable ecu, is the beginning of a process where it will become illegal to operate a motor vehicle with anything other than a certified ecu. all in the name of protecting the environment.

My '05 manual has instructions on how to reset the immobilizer using the red key and the number from the code card that came with the bike.  My card and red key are in the safe at home.

At the least, Ducati thinks something can lockout the immobilizer.

I find your above post confusing.

To Clarify - Repeat I just cut a new transponder non OEM black key from an original transponder black key, without the red key.

The new and old black key's will start the bike which has an activated transponder immobilizer.

If anyone is stuck; I'll help you out; with one working OEM black key; proof of title, ownership & valid Drivers licence with currant address; PM me; cost is $50 for a new black key plus trackable courier shipping services.

A black key can be cloned from a black key if the locksmith has a cloning tool.  You need the red key to program a new not cloned black key on the bike.  You also need the red key to marry the dash and ECU if you only replace one.

Wow 3 pages of no answer  8)

The 998 Matrix only came with 2 black keys and no imobilizer..   they were not micro chipped keys.  No worries about a red key. 

I dont know what is so confusing.  If you have a black key you cannot use it to make a new red key.  The red key carries the info that the ecu needs.

I think most others who read the post got it.

I guess we all made the same mistake, assuming all '02 and newer had immobilizers :-[

The 998 Matrix was based off the 2002 998 package. hence pre immobilizer

Dave,
You would have the correct answer for this.

Did any of the original SBK's (748/916/996/998) have an immobilzer?

I don't think so, but I was hoping you could confirm.


TIA.

You are correct none did.   999 was first.

Hi All,

Slightly off topic, however does anyone know if a 2002 620ie Monster had an immobiliser?
What year did that start with the Monster Models?

Cheers
Cabron

Wow, EVERYONE's wrong here.  ;)

As evidence in Matrix Reloaded, it seems any old key from an elderly man's keyring will fire it up.

Trinity on Ducati 996 Matrix Reloaded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEL7PTwGB5s#normal)

Obviously had the DP ECU.  [cheeky]

My 2003 620ie had an immobilizer.  Does your dash blink (orange I think, but it's been a few years) when the bike is off? If it does, I'm pretty sure you have an immobilizer.