In another thread there was a mention about a method of using a socket and hammer to do something
to your rotor buttons to make the rotors float. Does anyone want to explain this method or point out a link
on how to do this? I know there are a couple of us that are interested in doing this.
Thanks!
M
Don't have all the details but here's the basic idea:
The stock rotors are "semi-floating". The discs are held in place on the carriers by buttons and spring washers that should let the rotor move in and out just a little bit along the axis of the axle. What often happens is the little buttons and the spring washers get crudded up with dust and dirt and they don't move freely, making the formerly semi-floating rotor a fixed rotor. You can do two things:
1) Carefully clean and very carefully lubricate the buttons to restore movement. This generally needs to be repeated at regular intervals.
2) Remove the wheel and then remove the rotors. Get a socket that is just big enough to fit over the buttons on the rotor. Pad the edge of the socket with duct tape, place the button in the center of the socket on a solid work bench, and whack the button on the other side with a hammer. This will slightly compress the spring washer and turn your semi-floating rotors into full floating rotors.
If you do this right you may here some click-clicking from the front rotors as the buttons move around.
I may be doing this myself soon. If I do I'll try to post more details.
Scott
Quote from: VisceralReaction on May 13, 2008, 10:20:05 AM
In another thread there was a mention about a method of using a socket and hammer to do something
to your rotor buttons to make the rotors float. Does anyone want to explain this method or point out a link
on how to do this? I know there are a couple of us that are interested in doing this.
Thanks!
M
It's easy....
The hardest part is often getting the rotors off.
Remove wheel and then rotors.
Take a 19mm deep socket and cover the open end with duct tape...that will prevent marking the rotors or carriers.
Turn the rotor so the large end of the button fits inside the open end of the socket. You want to support the rotor and carrier with the socket.
Hit the rivet (small end of the button) with a hammer. What you're trying to do is flatten the wave washer slightly. You have to hit it harder than you think.
Move around the rotor until all the buttons move by hand. The amount they move is directly proportional to the jingle they make.
This is a very imprecise method. I've done both of my bikes this way and am happy with the results. As always...YMMV.
Very cool, thanks guys. Another bit of information for our new tech board!
M
So, what is the net result? Could you tell a night and day difference in your stopping power? Does it just make a cool jangly sound? I'm not putting the idea down...just wanting to learn that's all. I've actually never felt the lack of braking power on any motorcycle I've ridden. Every one I've been on has had more than enough braking power to get me into trouble! ;)
Yep. Thanks for the info guys.
I'm about to pull my rotors to swap wheels. Someone want to explain the potential benefits of this mod?
(I'm always up for fixing things with hammers...! [thumbsup] [evil] )
The real benefit to floating your rotors is that it compensates for any slight warping of the breaking surface. If your rotors aren't perfectly straight (most that have been used at all are not) you push your caliper around as the rotor surface moves back and forth, and may feel pulsing in the lever at extremes. If you allow the rotor to float on the carrier, instead of moving the caliper around, the rotor itself will just slide back and forth on the carrier.
If any increased breaking is felt it's either because your old rotors were severely warped or due to a little less heat generation at the caliper.
Justin
Quote from: A.duc.H.duc. on May 13, 2008, 01:02:18 PM
The real benefit to floating your rotors is that it compensates for any slight warping of the breaking surface. If your rotors aren't perfectly straight (most that have been used at all are not) you push your caliper around as the rotor surface moves back and forth, and may feel pulsing in the lever at extremes. If you allow the rotor to float on the carrier, instead of moving the caliper around, the rotor itself will just slide back and forth on the carrier.
If any increased breaking is felt it's either because your old rotors were severely warped or due to a little less heat generation at the caliper.
Justin
ding ding ding....
I did this before I bedded things in properly on the monster.
I did it on the SS to avoid an issue due to heat generated on the track.
i thought the main (racing) purpose of floating rotors is so that they "bang" the pads after brake pressure is released, which reduces the static drag on the rotors by the pads in released state... thereby reducing parasitic losses (increased top speed and acceleration at higher speeds).
not discounting the other reason stated, but this is what i've been told is the main purpose...
Quote from: Ash on May 13, 2008, 03:34:43 PM
i thought the main (racing) purpose of floating rotors is so that they "bang" the pads after brake pressure is released, which reduces the static drag on the rotors by the pads in released state... thereby reducing parasitic losses (increased top speed and acceleration at higher speeds).
not discounting the other reason stated, but this is what i've been told is the main purpose...
You're probably right..
You can read.... :P
from my expierence, cuz i just did this like 2 days ago, 20mm socket works better, my 19 got stuck on the button when i whacked it. also, i dont really see why a deep socket is needed. i used 3 20mm sockets arranged in a triangle to properly support the rotor flat on the workbench and would smack each one, then rotate. worked like a charm, and my slight pulse in the brakes when away. now to fix the squeak on my rear brake.
Quote from: knightrider on May 13, 2008, 05:52:33 PM
from my expierence, cuz i just did this like 2 days ago, 20mm socket works better, my 19 got stuck on the button when i whacked it. also, i dont really see why a deep socket is needed. i used 3 20mm sockets arranged in a triangle to properly support the rotor flat on the workbench and would smack each one, then rotate. worked like a charm, and my slight pulse in the brakes when away. now to fix the squeak on my rear brake.
I used a deep socket because I only used one and it left more room for my knuckles. ;)
not to be a thread jacker, but what are radially mounted brakes? Do some new duc's have them and some not? So I can take a look and let it soak in.
I've done this many times, it simply converts non floating rotors into floaters ( plus it makes that cool rattle sound when you back up!).
I just put a 2x4 under the button for support & wack the button with a 5# hammer. I continue to rotate the buttons over the dent in the 2x4 until I can begin to see the back washer being distorted. After that, it's just a case of making them all even & creating the amount of float you want. It brakes better, but my main reason is because it give a more even feel at the brake lever.
Quote from: Augustus on May 13, 2008, 07:57:19 PM
not to be a thread jacker, but what are radially mounted brakes? Do some new duc's have them and some not? So I can take a look and let it soak in.
Radial mounted brakes refers to the mounting method for the calipers. In a nutshell, the mounting bolts for the radial setup are inline with the rotors vs non-radial which are inline with the axle. This along with the perch the caliper is on, creates a very stiff (non flexing) mounting. The calipers used in radial setups are primarily "monoblock" designs which contribute to the stiffness/non-flexing setup. This in turn gives better feel/feedback/power and is all around more precise than standard mounting. The most recent beast (Monster) to have the radial mounts is the S4RS. by far the best brakes I have ever ridden with. These brakes alone will teach you "brake control"!! :o
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/13november02radialbrakes.html
Scott
Quote from: hypurone on May 14, 2008, 07:49:01 AM
The most recent beast (Monster) to have the radial mounts is the S4RS.
The most recent monster that has them is the 696 ;D, maybe not a beast, but a monster none the less ;)
Quote from: IdZer0 on May 26, 2008, 06:08:49 AM
The most recent monster that has them is the 696 ;D, maybe not a beast, but a monster none the less ;)
and they work very well on the 696 [thumbsup]
I have done this mod to a pair of slightly warped discs and it works really well they now do not judder and i can put off the day when i have to buy some new galfers.
What to do
1... take off front discs .
2...lay on flat frim surface with a 19mm or equivalent socket under the out side normally visible button you are going to bash witha big hammer.
also put a coulple of similar sockets under 2 other buttons so the disc is supported .
3....now place your hand and weight on the disc to hold it steady and hit the rivet side of the button until the washer is didhed and noves freely.
4....move the sockets around and repeat until all are now moving freely .
4 ....clean disc buttons and surface with brake cleaner
5.....put discs back on bike torque all fasteners to correct torque.
6 ....enjoy fully floating discs .
Quote from: Ash on May 13, 2008, 03:34:43 PM
i thought the main (racing) purpose of floating rotors is so that they "bang" the pads after brake pressure is released, which reduces the static drag on the rotors by the pads in released state... thereby reducing parasitic losses (increased top speed and acceleration at higher speeds).
not discounting the other reason stated, but this is what i've been told is the main purpose...
i don't quite understand this,
if you are refering to knock-back, that is bad. a warped fix rotor (among other things) can push the pads and pistons away from the braking surface. the extra distance may remove some parastic loss (once the pads have been moved) but could cause some serious issues when you are braking deep into a corner and your pedal or lever requies additional travel to generate expected braking forces. the little bit of lateral movement in a floating set up will allow the rotor to find its own way through the pads without having to push them out of the way.
stop tech has a decent write up on it in reference to suspension components in cars flexing during high g corners
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml
Quote from: Augustus on May 13, 2008, 07:57:19 PM
not to be a thread jacker, but what are radially mounted brakes? Do some new duc's have them and some not? So I can take a look and let it soak in.
696's and all of the SBK's have'em...The calipers are mounted on top the fork bottom rather than next to it... In other words the radial mounting bolts face back-to-front, and go vertically down through the caliper into the mounting bracket.... Non-Radials are mounted next to the bracket, so the bolts go horizontally in left to right, or right to left....Look at an older model Monster (m900, S4, etc) versus a 696 or an S4RS....Youll see what I mean...
Radials supposedly have better strength, feel, etc...
**edit** Damn Hypurone, didn't see your replys till it was too late!! Waaay better explanation!! [roll]
Quote from: ducpainter on May 13, 2008, 11:53:56 AM
It's easy....
The hardest part is often getting the rotors off.
Remove wheel and then rotors.
Take a 19mm deep socket and cover the open end with duct tape...that will prevent marking the rotors or carriers.
Turn the rotor so the large end of the button fits inside the open end of the socket. You want to support the rotor and carrier with the socket.
Hit the rivet (small end of the button) with a hammer. What you're trying to do is flatten the wave washer slightly. You have to hit it harder than you think.
Move around the rotor until all the buttons move by hand. The amount they move is directly proportional to the jingle they make.
This is a very imprecise method. I've done both of my bikes this way and am happy with the results. As always...YMMV.
Back from the dead, two in one night!
Last night, I floated my snowflake rotors with the ol' socket and hammer method as described above. All the buttons move freely and easily. I can hold the carrier and move the disc with my hand easily. I can also hold the carrier and twist the brake rotor back and forth and the disc will move easily making a soft "tick" sound as the carriers, buttons and disc make contact. They do not rattle if hold the carrier and shake the rotor.
Does this seem to be sufficient in order to have floating rotors?
I must admit, I was a bit shy with the hammer at first, but it took a decent whack to make any progress.
Thanks.
Quote from: Blue on October 17, 2011, 07:45:35 PM
Back from the dead, two in one night!
Last night, I floated my snowflake rotors with the ol' socket and hammer method as described above. All the buttons move freely and easily. I can hold the carrier and move the disc with my hand easily. I can also hold the carrier and twist the brake rotor back and forth and the disc will move easily making a soft "tick" sound as the carriers, buttons and disc make contact. They do not rattle if hold the carrier and shake the rotor.
Does this seem to be sufficient in order to have floating rotors?
I must admit, I was a bit shy with the hammer at first, but it took a decent whack to make any progress.
Thanks.
You'll be fine.