First, let me say that this isn't intended to be a rant. I really just wanted to see what other people's experiences have been like in terms of quality and reliability of their new 696's (and other Ducs).
I picked up my M696 in late June. I know opinions are somewhat "divergent" on this ;D, but I really like the looks, and the bike is fantastic to ride: great brakes and handling, nice smooth power and torque. It's my first Duc ( [thumbsup] always wanted one), and I love the bike enough that I was looking forward to getting a SBK this summer to go along with it. But lately I've been reconsidering that.
In the less than 7 mos since I've owned the bike, I've had to get the coil issue fixed (1500 miles), a small oil leak checked out (2500), a broken turn signal switch replaced (2500), and intermittent check engine lights checked out (seems to go on and off for a wk at a time, every month or two, no problem or code ever found). Finally, last night, 10 miles from home at 9:30 pm, I hear a pop and my headlight goes out. I'm assuming it's a fuse since the high beam wouldn't work either, though I haven't had a chance to check it out yet.
Now, admittedly none of these things have been major or catastrophic, but they have left me a little disappointed in Ducati's quality control. I mean, this is a brand new bike that is now less than 7 months old. It's sometimes a PIA to deal with, as the nearest dealer is 80 miles away and I work 50-60 hr weeks and am on call 24/7 every other wk. I expected that owning an Italian bike would be a more "involved" experience than owning a CBR or something similar, but this is a little more trouble than I expected from a brand new bike. Then I see threads like BP's describing massive oil consumption in his 1098 (and apparently other owners' as well), and I start wondering what the heck is going on in that factory? Do I need to get rid of this bike in about 15 mos before the warranty runs out? And if I'm going to do that, I guess I should hold off on the oil cooler and steering damper I was going to get done.
I guess what I want to know is, how typical is my experience, both with M696's and with other Ducs. I really enjoy riding this bike, and I really like the mods I've done to it thus far (exhaust, some paint, some CF - I'll post pics this evening), but I'm reluctant to make a further commitment to Ducatis if they're all going to be like this. I'm thinking I need to learn to work on this thing myself, too, if I'm going to keep it, but I haven't historically been a big DIY person and my nearest mc knowledgeable friend is in Austin, so it'll take time to do.
Again, not meant to be a rant, I still love Ducatis and my Duc, I just wanted your feedback and experience.
In Many ways Our experiences are similar and in other ways they are not.
696 was/is my first motorcycle. Many people tried to convince me to buy something else or nothing at all.
I have always wanted a Duc so I got one. I Know the styling is not extremely popular , but I love it.
My dealer is less than 5 minutes away and Have been great to work with. I trust them.
I've Had an oil leak which was fixed under warranty. I was without the bike for 2 days total.
I have not experienced any of the other issues that you have. If I did maybe I would be ranting as well.
I don't wrench on my own bike, except for some simple mods that I have done- levers, mirrors, sliders, some paint.
I don't know anyone within a three to four hr time frame that could personally help me with bike if I needed to.
So that is my experience and how it relates to yours. I hope this helped.
I will say it's often that a completely new line of car or bike often has teething problems regardless of builder. The 696 being a completely new frame/body and new engine could easily have a problem or two. No FHE with a 696 or a FI Monster for that matter, but I've had zero problems out of my M750 after 31,000 miles. I'm thinking you might have an isolated incident of QC issues ~
JM
Sorry for the hassles Swampduc. You are right, they are not "major" problems but they do start adding up as does the frustration/aggravation. Kinda gives your bike and Ducati a black eye.
Can't copy your stories but I can sympathize with your rant. I'm sure you expected better... who wouldn't? Having a dealer 80 miles away doesn't help and I am sure you considered that before the purchase.
I own several Ducs and several Jap SBKs. I love 'em all. But nothing beats the reliability of the Jap bikes... with all due respect to my beloved Ducs. Gas, oil, tires, insurance... that's it. Ever. Luckily my Ducs have been problem free for the most part. But I have heard similar local stories as yours from DMF folks. Nothing major but disappointing none the less. Hope it's all out of the way and you don't have to ever see the dealer again unless you want to order something. [thumbsup]
Quote from: duclvr on January 28, 2009, 08:17:12 AM
I've Had an oil leak which was fixed under warranty. I was without the bike for 2 days total.
I'm curious- How many miles? What was the nature of the oil leak?
No FHE with the 696, except for a test ride, but I can tell you that my '02 620FI has been almost bulletproof. I had one issue when I first picked up the bike, but that proved to be a combination of a bad battery(Can't blame Ducati for that.) and my stupidity(Don't keep your Duc key on the same ring as another chipped key!). Other than regular maintenance, the bike has had no other issues. Here's hoping your teething problems are over, and you'll have many trouble free years ahead.
All Duc's that are "new" models have problems:
4valver's had (have) flaking rockers
multistradas had frames crack, leaky fluid reservoirs, gauge problems
early 1000ds bikes had (have) soft valve guides
S2R's had FI problems
plastic tank bikes had (have) tank warping problems
etc etc.
Ducati isn't a billion dollar company with acres and acres of R&D and quality departments. They will never have the same failure rates as the big 3, unless they don't change their models so often (the Monster 900 was "bullet proof" towards the end of its product life).
I will still keep my Monster forever, but I don't rely on it for commuting, or racking up 10,000 miles a year on.
mitt
Quote from: TrpprJhn on January 28, 2009, 09:07:22 AM
I'm curious- How many miles? What was the nature of the oil leak?
A few drops on startup in the AM, especially cold starts (bike was marking its territory :D). Turned out it was probably just insufficient tightening of the oil filter by the dealer - they only tightened to Ducati specs the 1st time, but you usually have to tighten more than that on Ducs. Anyway, wasn't a big deal on mine. Don't know about Duclvr's
Thanks for the replies all. This is reassuring, as it seems there are lots of trouble-free bikes out there. I didn't expect this bike to be as reliable as my old Suzuki or Yamaha, but I was a little worried by the frequency of recent problems. I was thinking how much more painful it would be if these things happened out of warranty.
However, given that these probs don't seem too common, I'll likely continue with the master plan, which includes a SBK and then a sport-tourer, likely an old ST, unless the Multi replacement wows me ( [evil] muwahahaha). I should be living in New Orleans closer to the dealer in about a year or so.
NOLA? Check out DesmonsterS4RS when you get there! He just moved there this last summer from Dallas/Ft.Worth. Name's Cory... great guy! Check out the DFWM board and you'll find he's still with us!!
Again, hope the problems are at an end. I think you should stay the course. [thumbsup]
hey swampduc, sorry to here about your woes. I've had my m696 since July and other than the coil issue, which was taken care of at the 600 service by me simply telling the tech of the lurching I was experiencing and bits of stupidity on my part, it's been pain free. I have noticed though that the longer I own this bike the more I want to do my own maintenance. It almost seems like a rite of passage. Especially since your thinking of more bikes in the stable, learning simple repairs such as replacing lights, fuses or wiring problems would be useful and almost necessary I would think. For me and I think most if not all on this forum own Ducati's for reasons other than the reliability factor. As stated most of the new models, new and old, have problems. Good luck and I hope things smooth out for the 696. There are some good maintenance books and downloads available in the tech and general forum.
Quote from: TrpprJhn on January 28, 2009, 09:07:22 AM
I'm curious- How many miles? What was the nature of the oil leak?
Here is the thread on my oil leak
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=16421.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=16421.0)
Quote from: fastwin on January 28, 2009, 10:26:46 AM
NOLA? Check out DesmonsterS4RS when you get there! He just moved there this last summer from Dallas/Ft.Worth. Name's Cory... great guy! Check out the DFWM board and you'll find he's still with us!!
Again, hope the problems are at an end. I think you should stay the course. [thumbsup]
Met him last fall at a group ride from the dealer. Cool guy. Right now, I live about an hour and a half from NO. I definitely plan on staying the course unless the bike completely falls apart in the next yr or so, which seems extremely unlikely. The more I hear back from ya'll, the more it seems like my issues are the exception to the rule.
I'd vote its just a new models issues.
What you might need is an old model...I know a guy with a really clean S4R..... [cheeky]
I'm sorry to hear of all your woes. I got mine in Early June other than the coil issue (and a bent front rim suffered from a pot hole) I have had no issues. With the exception of the improperly tightened oil filter and the known coil issue, it sounds like all of your problems are electrical. It may be a bad harness or an exposed wire or a bad ground. My old 900 SS had major electrical problems when the tank crushed a wire causing it to ground on the frame and destroy different fuses.
I think you got a real lemon. I'll take it off your hands for 15 million dong. ;D
Stop selling MrIncredible ;)
couple of things, Duclvr
1) did you find the fuse issue? sound like a similar situation when one of my tail wires was pinched. did you do a tail chop or when you did your cans mess near the rear wiring harness?
2) had the coil issue myself, real pain in the rear, but once fixed no issues.
3) the check engine light.... maybe the same issue that popped the fuse???
Quote from: Raux on January 28, 2009, 12:52:35 PM
Stop selling MrIncredible ;)
couple of things, Duclvr
1) did you find the fuse issue? sound like a similar situation when one of my tail wires was pinched. did you do a tail chop or when you did your cans mess near the rear wiring harness?
2) had the coil issue myself, real pain in the rear, but once fixed no issues.
3) the check engine light.... maybe the same issue that popped the fuse???
I thing this should be directed to swampduc
Quote from: Raux on January 28, 2009, 12:52:35 PM
<snip>
3) the check engine light.... maybe the same issue that popped the fuse???
occurred to me too, hope it's the same.
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 28, 2009, 11:48:23 AM
I'd vote its just a new models issues.
What you might need is an old model...I know a guy with a really clean S4R..... [cheeky]
Don't think I haven't thought about it :D; that'd be a huge jump in power all at once though.
Quote from: duclvr on January 28, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
I thing this should be directed to swampduc
sorry was trying to read as i was writing... now you know why i dont use an MP3 player while riding.
Got my 696 in June 08 and have zero problems after 2300 miles. Coil issue was addressed at the 600 mile checkup. Sounds like your experience is atypical. Good luck.
Quote from: r_ciao on January 28, 2009, 02:18:56 PM
Got my 696 in June 08 and have zero problems after 2300 miles. Coil issue was addressed at the 600 mile checkup. Sounds like your experience is atypical. Good luck.
The coil issue was checked or was it fixed?
If it needed fixing, why would you not consider that a problem?
I picked mine up in July 2008 and now have 2700 miles. The only issue so far was a hard starting problem causing my check engine light to come on twice. After a TPS reset at the 600 mile (no bad codes pulled), it has started much easier. I have noticed that now that I am through the break in period, I seem to be running just a tad hotter. I am very happy with the bike so far.
My biggest issue is like yours - I live about 50 miles from the closest dealer. I took this into consideration when purchasing. I also considered Ducati's claim for longer maintenance intervals, a better build quality reputation, and a first year model run. Even though I have not needed to take the bike to the dealer, I do wish I could just pop into the dealer to check out some bike bling or other Duc models.
i love my bike, but it too has been in the shop numerous times already. coil issue, and oil leak. also something with the charging system TWICE. the charging system was the biggest headache. at least its winter.
I've had my bike since may, and the only severe problem I've had has been the coil issue.
I believe having a good mechanic/shop is important. In my town there is a Ducati dealership but it and its shop are incompetent, so I have to take an hour and half drive to Modesto Ducati for profesional service where my bike is "taken care of". At my service there was a small oil leak, missing hardware and other small things that where fixed and the bike handed over to me wiped clean. All these little things done help ease ownership.
Maybe most of the problems with your bike are what was said earlier, new model bugs, which should be expected. I knew better not to buy something the first year or two of production for these reasons but my heart said I must have this bike now no matter what.
Nothing in the month and a half and 1500 Km I have had this bike [thumbsup]
Ive got 1900mi. Only thing I had go wrong was the right hand mirror wouldn't stay in its position. Duc replaced under warranty. That really sucks your bike is acting up. I was one of the few bikes just after the coil issue(bought in early Aug.) I wonder if the early production run bikes are more prone to problems?
The coil issue only affected a number of 696s that were built prior to June of 08. I bought mine late August and the only PIA experience was trying to start it in low temp when it was new (not broken in yet). Now, my ride have 2300 miles on the clock trouble free and starts on first try.
It sounds like most of your problems are related to early build issues.
Now that you have dealt with most the problems you've encounter my only advice is rack a crap load of miles on it for the next few months and then make your decision from there [moto]
I'm also new to Ducati's and bought the new 696 despite the perennial advice not to buy the first year of a new model ( the motor is almost the same as the 695, which is why I felt confident jumping in). I bought in September so, apparently, no coil issue (confirmed by dealer and experience, runs great, starts easy, no surging problems). I had a broken taillight (as so many have had) that happened at the dealership before I picked it up, so they fixed, no charge.
3500 miles, no problems (knock on wood), doesn't use oil, 45 to 50 mpg around town, 54 mpg on highway. The only mildly negative thing I would say is that it needs a lot of warm up time in the winter. Below freezing I've been leaving it warm up to 2 bars (about 5 minutes, idle switch about half way, 1500-1800 rpms), otherwise it can stall. Warmer temps I only warm it up the time it takes to put gear on, a minute or two.
Hopefully you've got it squared away now and can just ride. If not, ditch it, no bike is worth that aggravation.
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 28, 2009, 02:31:33 PM
The coil issue was checked or was it fixed?
If it needed fixing, why would you not consider that a problem?
Coil connection corrected so yes, fixed. I don't consider that a problem since it caused no inconvenience and was corrected when I was taking bike in anyway. I didn't have to make a separate trip to fix, so IMO "no prob"
Quote from: danaid on January 28, 2009, 09:14:51 PM
I believe having a good mechanic/shop is important. In my town there is a Ducati dealership but it and its shop are incompetent, so I have to take an hour and half drive to Modesto Ducati for profesional service where my bike is "taken care of".
Survey says.... Good Times!
Quote from: swampduc on January 28, 2009, 10:08:53 AM
A few drops on startup in the AM, especially cold starts (bike was marking its territory :D). Turned out it was probably just insufficient tightening of the oil filter by the dealer - they only tightened to Ducati specs the 1st time, but you usually have to tighten more than that on Ducs. Anyway, wasn't a big deal on mine. Don't know about Duclvr's
Mine does this from time to time. I'm pretty sure it's not the 'tightness' of the oil filter. More likely it's the contraction and expansion of the seal. This would indicate the quality control on the oil filter seal may be poor or some defect in the housing.
Update: it was a blown fuse that took out my headlights, as I suspected. Bike was doing great for a few weeks. It was a gorgeous day today, so I went for as spirited a ride as I can find down here. Stopped for gas, and sure enough, headlights were out again when I fired up [bang]
<sarcasm> ya think there could be an electrical problem here? <sarcasm> Hopefully, it can all be ironed out this weekend.
[laugh] to keep from :'(
Quote from: swampduc on February 11, 2009, 06:01:12 PM
Update: it was a blown fuse that took out my headlights, as I suspected. Bike was doing great for a few weeks. It was a gorgeous day today, so I went for as spirited a ride as I can find down here. Stopped for gas, and sure enough, headlights were out again when I fired up [bang]
<sarcasm> ya think there could be an electrical problem here? <sarcasm> Hopefully, it can all be ironed out this weekend.
[laugh] to keep from :'(
do a cable run visual inspection. start with the tail and move forward. look for any pinched wires, ones that looked flattened like they had been pinched. etc. i had a bad connection in my tail lights that blew my lights. well the main 30A fuse too [bang]
Thanks. Will do today.
All new models have some problems for all marques from Aermacchi to Zundapp.
15k miles on a new-purchase 2002 620, no issues what-so-ever. Loved it! Sold it last April, even had the original battery still in it and it cranked fine. 2009 696 delivered June 4 2008, coil wiring fixed by dealer, ss Termi, Ergal cam belt pulleys, both dealer installed. Ducati rear fender eliminator, removed emission canister and installed euro air deflector, 14T counter-shaft sprocket all done myself, blows the 620 away, no comparison, and no problems yet.
Quote from: pompetta on February 14, 2009, 01:15:19 PM
All new models have some problems for all marques from Aermacchi to Zundapp.
True. Just sayin' that 5 problems in the 1st 7 mos of a bike's life are a bit much. That's true of any brand new bike in 2008, made by any manufacturer. Now, through this thread, I've found that my bike (which was very early in the production run) is an exception to the rule. Most 696's have done great. Fine. Doesn't make
my life any easier, though. I just want to get the bike to be a trustworthy steed. Not a Honda. Not bulletproof. Just not constantly needing something (as in something broken once/month). If I (and Ducati) can get it there, I will keep and love it for years. If not, I will get rid of it in a year or so before the warranty runs out. Now, doesn't that make sense? Duc parts ain't cheap.
And, let me add again, I love riding this motorcycle. I've never owned one I liked riding better. I just started this thread to get some perspective. I wanted to know if problems were widespread, or if my bike was one of a few with some problems. Turns out that it's the latter. Talked with my local dealer this AM and they were very, very understanding and helpful. Will continue to try to get this ironed out. They also gave me contact info for a couple of people in DNA that they said I should talk to.
6000miles love the bike. but mine seems to run hot . i live in the high desert and go into los angeles often. the coils have been fixed. so that is not the overheating issue. in frwy traffic rush hour and 100*it run up to the top bar , it also did the same in west la street traffic splitting lanes. i think it should have had a oil cooler stock.the engine light had been coming on with accelleration and i found if i put rubber between the rear of the tank and the frame the light rarely came on. the latest was coming back from la on the 405 in the fast lane near dark and the ignition went dead.it was heart pounding getting to the right and i was lucky to have people let me over as often times people are not so nice to bikes. i checked it out and found the ignition fuse blown and of course there was no spare fuse that size, i replaced the 10 with a 15 and tried it and it got me home. the dealer said the wires going around the rear cylinder head were melting. fixed for now ,wire loom ordered. the tank has only one screw on the rh side and one rubber mounted under the rear of the tank. this allows for movement to the left rear and while i am not an engineer it look like a problem to me. i still like the bike and love the sound of the termis.
About 1600 miles on my 696 now and the only problem was wonky wiring that turned my turn signal into an emergency light. Got it fixed and so far, so good.
There is a problem with the fact that I only put on 1600mi in about half a year of ownership, though. And now I have to wait 4 months before I can ride again. >:(
Sorry for your problems.
My bike has almost literally not missed a beat in something over 30,000 miles.
Coolest motorcycle I ever had and one of the best scoots ever sold to the public (IMHO).
LA [moto]
I had some issues on my 696 that sound similair to yours. My first problem was the right turnsignals quit working. Then a couple of weeks later my headlight and brakelights went out and the check engine came on. I took it to a local dealer and they said it had 2 blown fuses. They replaced the fuses and took it out for a test ride and it blew the fuses again. After a lot of trouble shooting they installed a new wiring harness (all under warranty). I haven't had any issues since then. Good luck getting your issues sorted out, it can be very frustrating.
Quote from: AeroGeek on February 18, 2009, 06:58:45 AM
I had some issues on my 696 that sound similair to yours. My first problem was the right turnsignals quit working. Then a couple of weeks later my headlight and brakelights went out and the check engine came on. I took it to a local dealer and they said it had 2 blown fuses. They replaced the fuses and took it out for a test ride and it blew the fuses again. After a lot of trouble shooting they installed a new wiring harness (all under warranty). I haven't had any issues since then. Good luck getting your issues sorted out, it can be very frustrating.
Thanks. Helpful to hear things like that, especially the fact that it ended up ok. It's also good to hear responses like LA's; reminds me that the vast majority of these bikes are trouble-free. Keeps me thinking about buying more Ducs in the future.
Update
After the 3rd blown headlight fuse, I sent a letter to DNA requesting either a new wiring harness or a new bike :P
They were very apologetic and helpful, and rushed delivery of a (backordered) wiring harness - came in in about a week and a half. My local Duc dealer (New Orleans) took care of it right away, and the bike has been completely problem free for the last week or so.
[thumbsup] to this forum for giving me an idea of which direction to go, and to DNA and Transportation Revolution for ironing the problem out.
I hope your woes are over and there is much happy riding coming your way! Oddly enough, wiring harnesses cause more problems in the car industry as well.....Those buggers are always causing problems.....