I sold my last bike back in July with my eye set on getting back into street bikes and my heart on Ducati. I picked my S4R T up in September and I love it but I'm comming to a harsh relization. It's painful for me to ride. I'm 28, I've been playing guitar for about 15 years, between that, years of martial arts, and countless hours in front of the computer I might have carpel tunel or something like that. I love the way my bike looks, I love where the handle bars are located but I can't ride. My hands fall alseep, I get an intense pain just under my thumb, palm side and I find myself desperate for the next stop light. I was dreaming of tri state trips. Now I can't hardly ride around town without severly compromising my fun. I rode my last bike almost exclusively year round for 4 years. Twords the end I noticed one of my hands falling asleep a little but nothing else, tell day one with this bike. The pain mainly seems to be in breaking and clutching though my hands will fall asleep just riding. I also get a wierd electric shock feeling in my thumb from time to time now when I'm not on my bike.
Advice?
Rely more on your back holding you up than resting on your wrists/ and see if that helps. Also, make sure you're not squeezing the bars tightly. That might help with the whole falling asleep thing ~
JM
I hold myself mainly with my core. I also have adjusted the angle of the levers. I do have the Kung fu grip but I'm trying to lessen that.
I just went and looked up the medical definition of carpal tunnel and it's symptoms, it doesn't fit at all so I guess it's something else.
It sounds to me like you're putting too much weight on your bars.
You holding the throttle like it was a twinkie?
It sounds like you're experiencing a fairly common thing for people who are just starting to ride, but you said you have experience (i.e. were "getting back into" street bikes). Anyway, here are a few things to do that might help.
Back & abs. you're likely putting way too much weight on the bars. You need to focus on holding yourself up with back and abs. Grip the tank with your knees and thighs. At the end of a ride, your legs should be sore, not your arms or shoulders.
Loose arms. make sure when you are riding that there is a bend at your elbow. Flap your arms like a chicken every once in a while. It looks silly, but it'll help. I make a habit of leaning forward when I approach a turn or a stop in city traffic. Leaning forward reminds me to loosen my arms.
Loose hands. I bet you're gripping pretty tight. Practice keeping your grip as loose as possible at all time. Play a game where you see how lightly you can hold the throttle and with how few fingers.
Adjust controls. If your controls are in the stock location, they're probably making the problem worse. When you reach for the brake or the clutch, you want a straight line between your forearm and the back of you hand. If your wrist is bent back, it'll cause problems.
Ergo mods. You can do some mods to change the ergos of your bike. Riser or different bars might help. Some folks change to clip-ons, though they can put a lot of weight on your wrists. Changing to adjustable levers like CRG or Pazzo often helps, because it alters the position and reach of your hand. There are other bigger changes you could make, like the seat or the rearsets, but that's likely not necessary.
Gear. Check that your gear isn't making the situation worse. Some of what you are describing sounds like gloves with too-short thumb. Also, how tight are you gloves around the wrist? And is your jacket too long in the arms?
Trigger thumb. Some of the pain your describing in your thumb also sounds like it could be the beginnings of trigger thumb. Just throwing that out there. I don't think it is, but something to keep in mind.
Edit: looks like you already got some of this advice while I was typing.
I had the same experience with my s2r1000, which has similar, if not the same bars. Some of the issue with my hands falling asleep were the angle of my arms to my core/shoulder. The long reach to the bars on the s2r pinched something there. Even using my core muscels, I woul djust delay the onset by a few minutes.
Look at some of the bar risers, and also taller bars (rizoma, tuono etc) that may help. I ended up switching to a hypermotard, and the upright position almost eliminates the issue. Only when I am tense and grippign like crazy does it creep back in.
I rode dirt bikes when I was younger and cafe style bikes off and on. This bike definatly throughs me more forward and I do grip too tightly. I try to keep my weight off of my wrists but I'm still learning to ride this bike.
Of course bikes and riding styles are personal.
Also the handle bar is not everyone's best friend because its twisted in a slightly weird angle.
But I would strongly advise to see a doctor when you have problems like that.
Electric shock feelings could come from an irritated nerve.
And martial arts could be the reason for that...some small splinters of bone or just something to tight to give the nerve enough room.
O have something similar since I almost cut off my middle right finger...its four years in the past now and the nerves still growning back.
There are plenty bars out on the free market, also risers may help.
but before you check the gear, check the rider... [coffee]
Quote from: webspoke on January 28, 2009, 12:10:00 PM
I had the same experience with my s2r1000, which has similar, if not the same bars. Some of the issue with my hands falling asleep were the angle of my arms to my core/shoulder. The long reach to the bars on the s2r pinched something there. Even using my core muscels, I woul djust delay the onset by a few minutes.
Look at some of the bar risers, and also taller bars (rizoma, tuono etc) that may help. I ended up switching to a hypermotard, and the upright position almost eliminates the issue. Only when I am tense and grippign like crazy does it creep back in.
Stan's right. Try some bar risers like Speedymoto, etc. I don't really care for the bend of the Magura bars at all. The riser could be a (semi) cheap fix... I bet it couldn't hurt. No pun intended. Also, look into the cramp buster. It's a slip on thingy (that is an actual technical term ;D) that slides over the throttle grip and allows the use of the outside portion of the right hand to help manage the throttle while gripping the bar. Funky explanation but I know several in our DMF group that have used them successfully... in town and on long road trips. Check 'em out. [thumbsup] I like everything Spidey said also. Loosen that grip 'bro.
Get a SBK. Then you have to adopt the correct form. I have far less weight on my wrists with the SBK than I did with the Monster. For one you are not fighting the wind so that lessens the death grip and the tank, seat, and rear sets are designed to allow you to ride in proper form without putting weight on your wrists. The Monster on the other hand does not really allow good support from the tank. You might also try different rear sets. Believe it or not they can greatly reduce weight on your wrists by transferring it to your legs.
like spidey mentioned above, i think it has more to do with your riding position rather than the bike itself. if you're getting that much pain from riding a monster you're either really really frail or you have improper posture and are leaning your weight onto the bar rather than using your core to keep yourself up.
i had broken my collarbone one time in a wreck. as soon as i could i was back on bikes. but it definitely made me be fully aware of my riding position and taking weight off my hands.
now i ride almost exclusive holding the bike with my knees. to adjust i slide back on the seat to get comfortable and to not want to grab the grips too tight at higher speeds using my core to lower me.
but if i forget i too get the numbness on my wrists.
remember when you were a kid and rode your bike with no hands? not saying try that, but mentally lighten your load on your hands so you are just keeping the bike going straight with your touch.
Quote from: Spidey on January 28, 2009, 11:51:03 AM
It sounds like you're experiencing a fairly common thing for people who are just starting to ride, but you said you have experience (i.e. were "getting back into" street bikes). Anyway, here are a few things to do that might help.
Back & abs. you're likely putting way too much weight on the bars. You need to focus on holding yourself up with back and abs. Grip the tank with your knees and thighs. At the end of a ride, your legs should be sore, not your arms or shoulders.
Loose arms. make sure when you are riding that there is a bend at your elbow. Flap your arms like a chicken every once in a while. It looks silly, but it'll help. I make a habit of leaning forward when I approach a turn or a stop in city traffic. Leaning forward reminds me to loosen my arms.
Loose hands. I bet you're gripping pretty tight. Practice keeping your grip as loose as possible at all time. Play a game where you see how lightly you can hold the throttle and with how few fingers.
Adjust controls. If your controls are in the stock location, they're probably making the problem worse. When you reach for the brake or the clutch, you want a straight line between your forearm and the back of you hand. If your wrist is bent back, it'll cause problems.
Ergo mods. You can do some mods to change the ergos of your bike. Riser or different bars might help. Some folks change to clip-ons, though they can put a lot of weight on your wrists. Changing to adjustable levers like CRG or Pazzo often helps, because it alters the position and reach of your hand. There are other bigger changes you could make, like the seat or the rearsets, but that's likely not necessary.
Gear. Check that your gear isn't making the situation worse. Some of what you are describing sounds like gloves with too-short thumb. Also, how tight are you gloves around the wrist? And is your jacket too long in the arms?
Trigger thumb. Some of the pain your describing in your thumb also sounds like it could be the beginnings of trigger thumb. Just throwing that out there. I don't think it is, but something to keep in mind.
Edit: looks like you already got some of this advice while I was typing.
Great advices from Spivey. Here's some of my personal experience.
I too recently got a Monster (620) and after a short while, I started experiencing pain in my wrist. The pain would start in my right palm, at the base of the thumb. After some observation, I realized that, at highway speed, I would lean a little further forward (to be a more aerodynamic) and would hold on the right grip tighter (specially with thicker winter gloves on). All of which are adding more pressusre on my right hand. My palm would hurt, fingers would go numb after awhile, and wrist would go stiff.
I implemented a few changes, as mentioned in Spivey's reply, and the difference is night and day. First, I installed a bar riser, which allows me to sit straighter and a little more back. It's a great and easy mod for any of you with short arms like me [laugh]. second, it's the matter of changing your mind set - using your legs/back to hold your upper body, not your hands. Relexing your arms and loosen the grips.
It help me greatly and it might help you out.
i had the same thing til i switched to clip ons. Now the pain is in my back, but at least not my wrists/hands/arms. Pain in my back is just sore muscles due to holding myself up. Clip ons might be your answer. It at least will make you hold your wrists/hands in a different position.
One more: Loose the fairing, that will lower the speed where the air will "lift" your body.
When i first rode a monster i loved the general feel of the bike but couldn't get on with the h/bar position, 1st i tried speedymoto bar risers but my hands were still uncomfortable allthough the more upright position was sumwhat improved. The next move was to purchase a pair of rizoma bars and bingo perfect, what i think is that the angle of the bars where the grips fit is the problem as when compared back to back, the rizoma bars face slightly upward and the stock bars face down. The height of the rizoma bars is approx.1/4inch higher than the stock bars with speedymoto risers fitted and i had no trouble with either the wiring or hydraulic pipes plus the mirrors became more useful. The risers now reside in a box on a shelf if any body is interested. I also installed rizoma sport grips and find that the grove in the grips to more comfortable for my thumbs. [thumbsup]
After fitting rizoma bars on my monster i installed them on my hypermotard with the same success [clap]
Funny you mentioned the huge knot between the shoulder blades. I've got some Carpal Tunnel issues. Ironically, being unemployed only helps my situation. I thought I would just have to suffer for the rest of my life, but last year during an indulgent visit to the spa on my birthday, my massage therapist noticed the knot between my shoulder blades. She asked if my CT was severe and I answered yes. Instead of a nice relaxing hot stone massage I paid for, I got a tortuous hot stone beat down. She spent a lot of time working that knot. When it finally relaxed, both my hands felt like they were filling up with warm fluid and the pain melted away. She had a theory about that knot and felt she had to experiment on me. I had no CT issues for about six months after. Eventually work and riding reformed that knot and the CT is coming back. It's not too bad now since I've been unemployed, but maybe you should try some massage therapy.
As if it's not difficult enough to convince the wife to let me spend money on bike. Now I have to convince her to let me get massages... for improve riding confort. Yah, that will go oever reallllll well. [laugh]
Now that I think about it, I do have a knot at my left should blade area...
thank you guys for your help. [bacon]
One of the reasons I didn't care for the 1100 when I test rode it was the seat was at an angle, pitching me forward. I had to grip the tank to keep weight off my wrists and the tank just wasn't as ergonomic as my 695 for that purchase.
On all my bikes, I make sure I have a firm, supportive, level perch to sit on. My BMWs had Corbins and I'm using the DP touring seat on the Duc. If you're well-planted on the sitbones it's easier to relax the upper body.
Also, my textile riding pants have leather panels on the inside of the knees, which help tremendously.
I did put short risers on the Monster, stock setup was just a little too much reach.