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Title: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: MotoCreations on January 28, 2009, 01:47:17 PM looking through the website and saw this -- 848 wetclutch to slipper dry clutch swap. Any engine gurus care to comment if anything applicable to the wet clutch Monster folks?
http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-slipper-clutch-conversion-p-4126.html (http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-slipper-clutch-conversion-p-4126.html) (http://www.store.commoto.com/images/96775109B-ducati-848.jpg) Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: JEFF_H on January 28, 2009, 01:51:42 PM (clearly not an expert but....)
i know the 1098 has a different size clutch shaft and nut than the rest of the dry clutch bikes. not sure which one the 848 has, but i would think it would be the same as the 1098 Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Speeddog on January 28, 2009, 01:54:29 PM I'd bet that the kit is just the standard dry clutch parts, nothing 'new'.
Wasn't aware that the 1098 had a different shaft from the previous 'big block' stuff, but I haven't been looking either. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: OverCaffeinated on January 28, 2009, 02:16:13 PM I looked into that very kit for my s2r800. I crosschecked a lot of the part numbers of the 848 and s2r800, case, crankshaft, etc. Nothing is the same enough to even try it, better off doin it custom, if at all. But again, that just for the 803cc engine that I checked.
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: ghosthound on January 30, 2009, 07:36:30 AM yeah i would imagine not a whole lot is shared between the 800 monster and the 848 [laugh]
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: toaster on January 30, 2009, 08:13:43 AM i was hoping there was something amazing that happened. i would pay reasonably big bucks to have a dry clutch on my 800. i was excited about being able to have the dry clutch when i bought the bike, but i didnt know. oh the torture!!
its bad enough that i would trade it straight across for an older bike thats carbed and has a dry clutch. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: zooom on January 30, 2009, 08:28:42 AM DucPond did a couple 800cc air cooled dry clutch and many of the older 750cc dry clutch conversions...one of the members here "Tim" had his former race bike (now just dedicated track bike) done....maybe hopefully he can chime in on his experiences and whatnot...
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: OverCaffeinated on January 30, 2009, 12:07:18 PM Instrument of torture! [evil] Yum!
I'm aware that it is currently possible, but like Tim said it's very involved and probably very expensive. BUT if there were a reasonably priced kit, with the work equivalent to a piston or cam swap, I'd jump on it. It's like the women who sees another women with beautiful curly hair and wants her hair to look like that. And that same curly haired women wants her hair to be straight cuz it would be so much easier to manage. Then the two hot women start to make out and cheezy music starts playing.... Oh wait Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: ghosthound on January 30, 2009, 01:11:43 PM Donnie at DucPond did indeed convert our Moto-ST Ducati 800SS racebike from a wet clutch to a dry clutch. It is a custom conversion, requiring significant engine disassembly, machine work, parts swapping, engine case modifications, clutch basket mods, and of course, clutch replacement. A slipper option was subsequently developed by Donnie, but has not yet been installed on the racebike. The backup racebike is in the middle of having the same conversion done to it. It is not cheap, simple, or quick. When you're done, you have a loud, typically graunchy, grabby, dust-spewing, rattly, high-maintenance, and loud (did I mention LOUD) racing clutch. It is great, in that it does not slip and stop your race if your oil overheats on the banking at Daytona or in 103-degree F temps at Barber Motorsports Park in July. It is great in that you can change your clutch without draining all the oil out of the engine in the pits. It is great because you gain 1/10 of one horsepwer because of removing the oil drag on the clutch plates, and you are still under the Moto-ST 75-horsepower maximum for Sport Twin class bikes. I'm sure Donnie could quote a price on doing this conversion (with and without a slipper) for a street Ducati Monster 800 or 800SS (or 620 or 695 for that matter). My only question is why anyone would want to take a sweet, well behaved, easy to operate, reliable, low to no maintenance, and QUIET wet clutch on their street bike and turn it into an instrument of torture like a dry race clutch? I sure wish my S4Rs had the 848's wet clutch. That would be one more step towards it being the perfect street bike! Hey, maybe Donnie could use my bike as a test bed for the conversion from dry to wet clutch! Ymmv, and all that.... I for one love the "mechanical bliss" i get from looking and hearing a dry clutch. As for the noise... i havent seen 1 post where someone wanted a quieter exhaust so its not too far off to want a clutch that looks and sounds 100 times cooler. We didnt buy little 250 scooters, we bought Monsters! [laugh] Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: CowboyBeebop on January 30, 2009, 02:15:40 PM Does anyone know if a dry clutch would be lighter than a wet clutch? Ducati claims its 848 motors with a wet clutch are several pounds lighter. I wouldn't trade that much rotating weight simply to have a dry clutch.
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: CowboyBeebop on January 31, 2009, 06:33:10 AM Iirc the 848 motor was lighter because it was the first to use the new gas vacuum die cast crankcases, not because of the wet clutch. There should be very little difference in weight between a wet clutch and a dry clutch, with the dry clutch perhaps saving a few ounces in less oil capacity and ventilated/open (and/or lighter weight) cover. That could be true, but in addition to that, Ducati claims that the wet clutch on the 848 is 2.2 lbs lighter than the dry clutch: http://www.ducati.com/en/bikes/my2009/ModelPage.jhtml?family=Superbike&model=SBK848-09 (http://www.ducati.com/en/bikes/my2009/ModelPage.jhtml?family=Superbike&model=SBK848-09) Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: caperix on January 31, 2009, 09:04:11 AM The wet clutch on the 848 is the same as the wet clutch on the 1000 sport classic with a wet cluch. So this kit could be used on those bikes, as for the smaller monster I do not know. My question is though, every one who has done a wet clutch to dry clutch conversion says they had to split the cases & preform custom machining. This kit looks like it is no more involved than replacing the basket, what is different?
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: caperix on January 31, 2009, 03:46:54 PM Tim if you realy want a wet clutch in your s4r that should be as easy as swaping the clutch & cluch cover from the 848.
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Duck-Stew on January 31, 2009, 05:04:47 PM The wet clutch on the 848 is the same as the wet clutch on the 1000 sport classic with a wet cluch. So this kit could be used on those bikes, as for the smaller monster I do not know. My question is though, every one who has done a wet clutch to dry clutch conversion says they had to split the cases & preform custom machining. This kit looks like it is no more involved than replacing the basket, what is different? Small cased Ducati engines are only designed to get wet-clutches so therefore, converting it to a dry clutch is NOT the same as converting a large cased Ducati engine from a wet to a dry clutch. Large cased engines (no order) 900 748/916/996 998 749/999 1098/848 DS1000/DS1100 Small cased engines (no order) 400 600 620 695 696 (?) 803 750 And a BIG +1 to the hassle comments on coversion and the 'not worth the $$$' comments as well. But, even with that said and admitted...I'm still building another 750 with a dry-clutch for my Cafe-Racer. (actually it'll be an 885cc motor) Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: CowboyBeebop on January 31, 2009, 05:09:28 PM Small cased Ducati engines are only designed to get wet-clutches so therefore, converting it to a dry clutch is NOT the same as converting a large cased Ducati engine from a wet to a dry clutch. Large cased engines (no order) 900 748/916/996 998 749/999 1098/848 DS1000/DS1100 Small cased engines (no order) 400 600 620 695 696 (?) 803 750 And a BIG +1 to the hassle comments on coversion and the 'not worth the $$$' comments as well. But, even with that said and admitted...I'm still building another 750 with a dry-clutch for my Cafe-Racer. (actually it'll be an 885cc motor) I didn't know there was a difference in cases. What makes a case "large" vs. "small"? Are they actually significantly smaller or larger dimmensionally? Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: caperix on February 01, 2009, 05:51:27 AM Small cased Ducati engines are only designed to get wet-clutches so therefore, converting it to a dry clutch is NOT the same as converting a large cased Ducati engine from a wet to a dry clutch. Large cased engines (no order) 900 748/916/996 998 749/999 1098/848 DS1000/DS1100 Small cased engines (no order) 400 600 620 695 696 (?) 803 750 And a BIG +1 to the hassle comments on coversion and the 'not worth the $$$' comments as well. But, even with that said and admitted...I'm still building another 750 with a dry-clutch for my Cafe-Racer. (actually it'll be an 885cc motor) Stew, sorry for keeping this issue alive. Being the owner of 2 wet clutch Ducati's, although not planing on converting either of them, this has peaked my interest. Could you please elaborate on wear the problem lies, as you have first hand experience with it. Looking at the hot rod 750 it looks like the case off the wet clutch bike bolted on with out any visible modifications, is it that the transmission input shaft is a diff, size/length/spline count? Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Duck-Stew on February 01, 2009, 08:12:13 PM I didn't know there was a difference in cases. What makes a case "large" vs. "small"? Are they actually significantly smaller or larger dimmensionally? Large case motors have deeper oil sumps and the transmission shafts are spaced differently so a big trans won't fit a small case. The two mounting points are the same obviously. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Duck-Stew on February 01, 2009, 08:13:56 PM Stew, sorry for keeping this issue alive. Being the owner of 2 wet clutch Ducati's, although not planing on converting either of them, this has peaked my interest. Could you please elaborate on wear the problem lies, as you have first hand experience with it. Looking at the hot rod 750 it looks like the case off the wet clutch bike bolted on with out any visible modifications, is it that the transmission input shaft is a diff, size/length/spline count? The clutch side covers do swap and you will have to change the primary gear set with a dry-clutch one so externally...it looks like it just 'bolts on'. It don't. MANY differences between the transmission input shafts and the bearing spacers, and the.....well....lots of little things really. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: caperix on February 02, 2009, 03:38:08 PM The clutch side covers do swap and you will have to change the primary gear set with a dry-clutch one so externally...it looks like it just 'bolts on'. It don't. MANY differences between the transmission input shafts and the bearing spacers, and the.....well....lots of little things really. Thanks for the reply, other threads have speculated about what the differnece is but this is the first time I have seen it in writing. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: kopfjäger on February 02, 2009, 09:42:58 PM i was hoping there was something amazing that happened. i would pay reasonably big bucks to have a dry clutch on my 800. i was excited about being able to have the dry clutch when i bought the bike, but i didnt know. oh the torture!! Just do it to your bike. (http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/fender005.jpg) Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Speeddog on February 02, 2009, 10:20:17 PM Just do it to your bike. Looks great! [thumbsup] Better put an oil filter on that. ;D Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: kopfjäger on February 02, 2009, 10:59:51 PM Better put an oil filter on that. ;D (http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/feral009.jpg) Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Raux on September 11, 2010, 09:43:17 PM Reviving a thread.
Kopfjager. can you provide a parts list? Stu, can you give me things to look for? Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: kopfjäger on September 12, 2010, 11:29:15 AM Reviving a thread. Kopfjager. can you provide a parts list? Stu, can you give me things to look for? Seriously bro, find a donor 1100 motor. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: TAftonomos on September 12, 2010, 12:10:37 PM Can I convert my dry clutch S4Rt into a wet clutch....just because? [laugh]
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Duck-Stew on September 12, 2010, 12:37:06 PM Can I convert my dry clutch S4Rt into a wet clutch....just because? [laugh] Yes. It's easier than the other way around... Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Raux on September 12, 2010, 06:24:35 PM seriously?
is it because the 696 is the small case? there have been small case stock dry clutches right? Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Speeddog on September 13, 2010, 07:22:43 AM seriously? is it because the 696 is the small case? there have been small case stock dry clutches right? The 696 is a small-case motor. AFAIK, there haven't been any dry-clutch small-case motors in a production Ducati. There's other folks here that know the history better, so YMMV. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: duccarlos on September 13, 2010, 07:35:19 AM Throwing gas into this fire... where does an S2R1000 fall into all this?
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: duccarlos on September 13, 2010, 07:36:04 AM And in better terms, is it possible to swap that dry clutch from an 1000 to 800?
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Speeddog on September 13, 2010, 07:41:25 AM S2R1000 is a big-case motor, and they come with a dry clutch.
800 is a small-case motor. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: duccarlos on September 13, 2010, 07:43:40 AM So might as well find a wreched S2R1000 and swap out the motor.
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Raux on September 13, 2010, 08:44:03 AM errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: TAftonomos on September 13, 2010, 08:48:26 AM Can I convert my 540i to a wet clutch using parts from a pantah motor? [cheeky]
Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: Raux on September 13, 2010, 09:53:15 AM ok i've read the 848 conversion again and again.
i have to reread it again and cross reference the 696 manual. Title: Re: wet clutch to dry clutch slipper conversion Post by: DukeDenver on September 14, 2010, 04:41:14 PM Let me know if you come up with anything Raux, i've been over everything I can and thus far I can't seem to find any hope towards getting my 696 to be a dry clutch :'(
Oh how i'd jump for joy to be able to have that dream of the rattle of a dry clutch [moto] |