I am sending my tank off for paint and i figured I would try to replace my ugly yellow spring with a red one to match the new paint scheme. I did some reading and it seems that this is the spring I would need to replace the stock spring.
7" Long, 2.25" I.D. 650 Lbs/inch Eibach Spring
Questions:
1. In general is this the correct spring?
2. I weigh around 200 with gear so should I go with a 700lb spring?
2 Do I need special tools (including a bike stand) to do this job?
As far as the tools and such... I have read that you dont need a spring compressor to to the job is this true? And can I do this on the side stand because I have no other stand. I am thinking that if I get my hands on a spring compressor (like the one below?) then (with bike on side stand) I could hook that up and just unscrew the bolts and the thing should just slide out. Is this correct?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycle-shock-coil-spring-compressor-CB-GS-XS-KZ-T27_W0QQitemZ330302256602QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycle-shock-coil-spring-compressor-CB-GS-XS-KZ-T27_W0QQitemZ330302256602QQcmdZViewItem)
Also, once I get it in there I will be getting a full suspension set up in the spring.
thanks for the help!
Well if you unscrew the bolts... what's going to be holding up the rear end of the bike?
To access the spring, you'll need to remove the shock. Removing the shock means supporting the rear of the bike. Not just rear stand sort of support, but taking the load that the shock is support with some other device. I've seen a few ways, 2x4 constructs, ratchet straps from the ceiling, jacking up the bike from below the engine.. but you're going to need some way to support the back of that bike.
Other special items - a pre load ring spanner. It'll look something like the item on this page
http://www.desmotimes.com/product36.htm (http://www.desmotimes.com/product36.htm)
It'll be how you get the two rings that pre load the spring, undone.
That's the right spring in terms of length and diameter. 700lb is definitely too heavy. Even 650lb may be firmer than you like, but it will depend on your needs. (I weight just a hair over 200 ungeared, and I ride a 650lb.)
It may be possible to do without a spring compressor, but I used one and I suggest you do too.
Quote from: yuu on January 28, 2009, 04:21:41 PM
Well if you unscrew the bolts... what's going to be holding up the rear end of the bike?
Other special items - a pre load ring spanner. It'll look something like the item on this page
http://www.desmotimes.com/product36.htm (http://www.desmotimes.com/product36.htm)
It'll be how you get the two rings that pre load the spring, undone.
point taken.
But is it possible have two strong folks hold the bike up and once the shock is removed just lower it down slowly to rest?
As far as the ring spanner. I could just wack it with a hammer and screw driver until it comes loose, correct?
I guess my focus is not having to buy things that I will never use again. Perhaps I will look for some local support with [drink] s in return.
Quote from: bschur13 on January 28, 2009, 05:56:54 PM
point taken.
But is it possible have two strong folks hold the bike up and once the shock is removed just lower it down slowly to rest?
As far as the ring spanner. I could just wack it with a hammer and screw driver until it comes loose, correct?
I guess my focus is not having to buy things that I will never use again. Perhaps I will look for some local support with [drink] s in return.
It's probably possible, even with 1 person. I've been that person for a couple gixer race bikes... But they have a different frame and engine configuration. With Monsters being set up as they are, the header and a small edge of the engine case is what a majority of the bike would be resting it's weight on... not such a great plan. But you could spend $10 on some build something to go under the engine that distrubtes a lot more of the load. Get same said 2 buddies to lift the rear of the bike and slide your 2x4 construct under. Remeber, if you're trying to take out a suspension member, it's a lot easier when it's unloaded.
You probably could got at it with a hammer and drift. I doubt you'd be the 1st to ever do it. But just don't hit your shock body, or you've probably ruined it.
Are you a MAD member? If so send an email out to the list, I'd bet someone has that spanner - and double up and post in CAM.
Where will you be getting the spring?
At 200 with gear, a 600 would give you a softer ride, a 650 a firmer ride.
Choose which one depending on how you want it for how you ride.
It's worthwhile getting a spanner, you're going to have to adjust the preload anyway, it's a lot easier with one.
You'll need a spring compressor to get the old spring off and the new one on, perhaps a local shop might do it for a small fee.
you can get the rear shock out off the side stand and a floor jack. Put the floor jack right under where the swing arm pivot is. You might need to move it up and down to get the upper mount to angle correctly.
I did it, but it was really tricky. i recommend having someone else there to catch the bike if you tip it over too far. The bolts holding the shock in are *very* tight as well, and the top one doesn't give a lot of room.
good luck.
Andy
Quote from: =P on January 28, 2009, 06:40:10 PM
Where will you be getting the spring?
most likely here
http://www.eshocks.com/hyp_ind.asp?SubCheck=25+IDQ2.&Free_Length=Q7&SubChar=Q (http://www.eshocks.com/hyp_ind.asp?SubCheck=25+IDQ2.&Free_Length=Q7&SubChar=Q)
Quote from: Speeddog on January 28, 2009, 06:47:14 PM
At 200 with gear, a 600 would give you a softer ride, a 650 a firmer ride.
Choose which one depending on how you want it for how you ride.
could you elaborate? I guess I could go a little stiffer then the stock spring but I dont really know what the pros and cons would be. I am still too new to bikes. On cars though I like stiff so if that logic spills over then I would prob like 650. Also, I dont really ride very long trips so if its just a comfort thing then I am ok with firm. Does it effect handling? Would a track rider prefer one over the other or is it just personal pref?
Quote from: bschur13 on January 28, 2009, 10:01:09 PM
could you elaborate? I guess I could go a little stiffer then the stock spring but I dont really know what the pros and cons would be. I am still too new to bikes. On cars though I like stiff so if that logic spills over then I would prob like 650. Also, I dont really ride very long trips so if its just a comfort thing then I am ok with firm. Does it effect handling? Would a track rider prefer one over the other or is it just personal pref?
By *my* chart, you should have a 625.
Choices are 600 or 650, so there you go.
Novice rider, I'd go with the 600.
Experienced rider, the 650.
Also would depend on what kind of riding you do, and how good the roads are where you ride.
That's a street setup.
Track setup I'd go stiffer initially, but likely the spring would get swapped anyway depending on rider/track/bike...
Quote from: Speeddog on January 28, 2009, 10:40:26 PM
snip
Novice rider, I'd go with the 600.
Experienced rider, the 650.
/snip
Please elaborate good sir. Is it just stiffness or as bschur13 says does it effect handling or anything else ? I can tear apart a motor 6 ways to Sunday and put it back together drunk
(
IF I have to) but suspension is still kinda ...well.... already on the damn thing.
I am planning on softening up my ride (roads around here suck) but I really don't know what else I
could be doing to the performance.
It does effect handling.
It's all a tradeoff, stiffer is better handling, softer makes for a more comfortable ride while cruising.
If your roads are really rough, lean towards the stiffer spring.
At this point, for the OP, either spring is going to be a substantial improvement over the OEM unit.
Beyond that, it's tuning preference of the rider.
Is there a chart anywhere that shows what spring we need for what weight?
I haven't decided what route to go on upgrading my s2r800 suspension. If I get the right spring now, could I put it on now? Then when I get my new shock move it over to that one?
Good spring info can be found at: http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/suspensionspring.php (http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/suspensionspring.php)
just a question, but how much does re-powdercoating a spring effect the spring rate? I would figure an extended bake at 400 deg would alter the rate of the spring somehow. I know the springs are PC'd from the factory (well, eibach does, pretty sure hypercoil does as well). I'd like a black spring, seeing as though I can't find a Ti one [laugh]
Quote from: TAftonomos on January 29, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
just a question, but how much does re-powdercoating a spring effect the spring rate? I would figure an extended bake at 400 deg would alter the rate of the spring somehow.
That's not nearly hot enough to effect the temper of steel. The annealing temperature is around 1080 degrees.
Well this item is the tool I need for removing the spring from the shock but the reason I posted this link is because of another question.
Please look here
http://corsair-industries.com/parts/Ducati%20Tools/Ducati%20Sachs%20Shock%20Adjusting%20Tool/ (http://corsair-industries.com/parts/Ducati%20Tools/Ducati%20Sachs%20Shock%20Adjusting%20Tool/)
In the right side of this photo you can see a small, yellow, rubber bushing that is on the stainless part of the shock inside the spring.
This bushing is shredded on my shock. Is this an indication of a problem or is it common?
Also is there a replacement part that I can get for my trashed one? (I'm not really sure if there is a way to remove the old and replace a new if that rod is permanently connected on both ends. It may require some sort of magic if that is the case)
I'm not sure how common this is, but you have a problem. Ducati does show it as a separate part. The part number 366.1.020.1A Availability? Dunno, if there is mileage on your shock you might want to consider a new aftermarket shock.
Quote from: bschur13 on January 30, 2009, 05:51:58 PM
This bushing is shredded on my shock. Is this an indication of a problem or is it common?
It's called a bump-stop, and its job is to keep the shock from bottoming out hard. If it's shredded, the spring (and damping) is way too light for whoever has been riding the bike. The shock itself may be just fine. You need to get the suspension tuned for your weight, though.
Quote from: TAftonomos on January 29, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
just a question, but how much does re-powdercoating a spring effect the spring rate? I would figure an extended bake at 400 deg would alter the rate of the spring somehow. I know the springs are PC'd from the factory (well, eibach does, pretty sure hypercoil does as well). I'd like a black spring, seeing as though I can't find a Ti one [laugh]
WP springs are gloss Titanium finish, kind of dark.
http://www.wpsuspension.com/products/Street.php (http://www.wpsuspension.com/products/Street.php)
(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/4014_emulsion.jpg)
Quote from: mmakay on January 30, 2009, 11:12:27 PM
It's called a bump-stop, and its job is to keep the shock from bottoming out hard. If it's shredded, the spring (and damping) is way too light for whoever has been riding the bike. The shock itself may be just fine. You need to get the suspension tuned for your weight, though.
I went and took another look at it... It literally has an entire chunk taken out of it. Picture if it was a dunkin doughnut that someone took a big bite out of. It almost looks like perhaps a rock or something got in there and nicked the rubber and then it just tore away over time. The areas that are still in place are in good condition. I have been riding it for the last two years and I feel like to get anywhere near that bump-stop I would have had to hit a speed bump or something at a speed that would have gotten me air born.
Either way...
Is there a replacement part? On the suspension diagram I looked at the part mentioned above is not be the bump-stop.
Is it possible to remove the end of the shock from that rod in order to replace the bump-stop in one piece?
Quote from: bschur13 on January 31, 2009, 08:44:05 AM
I went and took another look at it... It literally has an entire chunk taken out of it. Picture if it was a dunkin doughnut that someone took a big bite out of. It almost looks like perhaps a rock or something got in there and nicked the rubber and then it just tore away over time. The areas that are still in place are in good condition. I have been riding it for the last two years and I feel like to get anywhere near that bump-stop I would have had to hit a speed bump or something at a speed that would have gotten me air born.
Either way...
Is there a replacement part? On the suspension diagram I looked at the part mentioned above is not be the bump-stop.
Is it possible to remove the end of the shock from that rod in order to replace the bump-stop in one piece?
I misread your post. As you said, it is not shown as a separate part. You might try some big dealers. If they can't get the part they may have a good used bump stop from a take off. Also post in "Parts Wanted" on this board. The shock needs to be disassemble to change that part. This means it will also need a nitrogen recharge. Can you post a picture of the bump stop? You may not need to replace it.
I need to replace it now. I pulled it off to measure it and it tore into pieces. Needless to say it was brittle and worn out from the tear. I am going to see if eshocks can supply me something with the spring I order. I will also try a post in parts wanted. But in the end I dont think its the end of the world if I dont have one. Correct?
You *have* to have a bottoming snubber.
Quote from: Speeddog on February 02, 2009, 02:18:08 PM
You *have* to have a bottoming snubber.
any suggestions on where to look for one? I am searching the web now and not having any luck. Same at the place I just ordered my shock from. Guy said they had nothing for a replacement part.
so i got my bump rubber and my spring and i am about to get my hands on a c spanner. Today was the first time I actually measured the spring and a small worry entered the scenario. The stock spring is 2.25 inner dia and 3 on the outer. my new eibach is 2.25 inner and 3.25 outer. ???
my thought is that the eibach is a heavier spring and in order to make it heavier the coil had to be thicker, hence the extra .25 in outer diameter. As I look at the shock I dont see a problem with the extra width. To me it seems the important part is that new spring seats properly on the top and bottom of the shock and that the inner diameter should be responsible for this part. The outer diameter should make no difference as long as it is free and clear of other parts on the bike (and it is). Am I correct about all this? Can anyone speak for this from experience with swapping springs?
Thanks
As long as the spring clears the pushrod, it should be fine.
There is more tot his suspension thing than just harder or softer. If you rear spring is heavier to the point of being out of balance with your front suspension is will quicken your turn in, and also can cause headshake. Or, in a turn, the increase workload of the front suspension will cause your bike to be less forgiving, and more likely to overload the front suspension and wash out. So if you go heavier in the back, it stands to reason you should get matching springs in the front.
As to whether heavier or lighter is better, Racetech always pushes toward softer for anything less than track only bikes. If the suspension is properly damped, using too heavy a spring is only going to limit how much of your suspension you get to utilize.
Again with proper damping, softer suspension can also help you on rough roads as more low speed bumps will be absorbed rather than transmitted to you and your bike (not good for either)
HOWEVER.... If you put a softer rear on and don't match the front, not too much bad can happen aside from bottoming out easily when you take a passenger. But IF and only IF you are an aggressive rider, and I mean AGGRESSIVE... a softer rear can cause your bike to run wide on corner exits... How? Well, when you throttle hard out of a corner, the geometry of the rear creates some negative load on the shock, but nowhere near the positive load created by your ass and the bike throwing all their weight on the rear of the bike. So..... The rear suspension compresses, and while this happens, your forks extend... When this occurs, the rake of your bike increases, slowing the steering and pushing the front wide....
So, in short, firmer suspension is a danger to inexperienced riders, doubly so if they overload the front fork by putting on too firm a rear spring. I know, I saw MonsterGrrl slide past me into an intersection after her 800lb rear put the whole game on the oversoft front causing it to bottom, skip, and lock....
Softer suspension (IF BALANCED) is less of a danger, but a bit of a liability to a TRACK rider.
Soo in short, you are probably better served with a softer setup overall, although one that's in the your weight range of course.... But you need to match your front springs to your rear. When you sit on the bike, the front and rear should both compress equally. That'll be your indicator that the springs match.
BTW, ProItalia sells the Ohlins spanner for $8.95... Seriously, there is no reason you shouldn't have this tool... It had a handle built on... Not like the Ducati Spanner for our (S series) chain adjustments that's over $30 dollars, and has no handle. You have to buy that separate...
Hope this helps!!
Thanks to everyone for the advice and 2c.
I got into removing the shock today all by my lonesome. I was too impatient to wait around for a helping hand. The only tools I had for the job was the proper allen wrench for the bolts holding the shock in place and a universal c spanner that I picked up at a local bike shop. It turns out that the eibach spring box was a perfect fit to place in between the rear tire and the frame for when I pulled out the shock and needed to rest the bike. No hanging from the ceiling or propping up with a jack was needed.
Basically I loosened the spring till it was at full extension. Took the nut off the top and bottom bolts, then I removed the top bolt. At this point I held the rear of the bike up with my left hand and pulled the bottom bolt out. Placed the spring box in its "proper" place to hold the bike up and removed the shock. Piece of cake. My idea of slicing the bump stop and gluing it once it was in place on the shock worked perfectly. Reversed the operation to reinstall and its all done.
I guess a helping hand could have helped but it took me two hours of working methodically and its all done with no f bombs or nothin. Now I just need the rest of my bike back and then I am thinking I am going to take a shot at the suspension set up myself. [thumbsup]
Quote from: bschur13 on February 28, 2009, 02:10:41 PM
...
My idea of slicing the bump stop and gluing it once it was in place on the shock worked perfectly.
...
Probably a good idea to ziptie the bump stop as well? Hard to imagine that glue could keep it together if/when it gets hammered by the shock body and needs to do its job. Congrats on finishing the task. Beer time! [drink]
BK
good thought on the zip tie idea.
I actually contemplated skipping the glue all together because it is actually very durable even with the slice in it. I think it would stay in place no matter what due to the fact that in the event of needing the bump stop, the spring compresses evenly on it. That should keep it from ever pressing completely off the shaft. Nonetheless I used glue that is semi flexible when dry so if it does take a hit the glue should hold.
Quote from: TAftonomos on January 29, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
just a question, but how much does re-powdercoating a spring effect the spring rate? I would figure an extended bake at 400 deg would alter the rate of the spring somehow. I know the springs are PC'd from the factory (well, eibach does, pretty sure hypercoil does as well). I'd like a black spring, seeing as though I can't find a Ti one [laugh]
Quote from: mmakay on January 29, 2009, 04:23:35 PM
That's not nearly hot enough to effect the temper of steel. The annealing temperature is around 1080 degrees.
I've done quite a bit of annealing at more like 600F. I'd just check the powder coater and the Spring maker.
Depending on the steel, you could de-temper it altogether changing it's spring rate.