Ducati Monster Forum

http://www.skipbarber.com/landing_superbike.aspx?articleID=1841&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1 (http://www.skipbarber.com/landing_superbike.aspx?articleID=1841&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1)

I worked for Skip as an instructor, but here is what I don't understand....Skippy is a car racing school..Wouldn't this have been better aligned with a motorcycle school?

I hope Skip has got a team of lawyers ready when KTM drops their support with no warning.

who knows maybe they'll bring in this too...

http://www.ktm-x-bow.com/Car-Facts.625.0.html (http://www.ktm-x-bow.com/Car-Facts.625.0.html)

seems kinda like they ditched the Rookies cup kids to sponsor a motorcycle school run by car people? 

please elaborate or post a link that will  [thumbsup]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2005/Aug/050819a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2005/Aug/050819a.htm)
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jan/090115redbullpullout.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jan/090115redbullpullout.htm)
http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2008/10/16/ktm_pull_out_of_250cc_class_for_2009.html (http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2008/10/16/ktm_pull_out_of_250cc_class_for_2009.html)

Thanks Woody!

I used to think KTM was a pretty good company, but I'm kinda old school. I still believe if you say you're going to do something you should do it. Leaving people in the lurch seems to be a regular pattern for KTM.

KTM lost me forever when they didn't support Ewan and Charley...

I remember seeing that on TV, but didn't get to see the whole thing. Was that The Long Way Round? I remember the rage and frustration...and the tearing up of posters. And to think I was saving up my pennies for a Super Duke...good thing I came to my senses.

From the book and TV series I got the impression that KTM's attitude was "we think you'll fail and we don't want to be part of that," whereas BMW's attitude was "we don't care if you fail, because it's a cool idea, and we want to be part of it."  At least that's the impression that the authors/producers gave.

I took Skip Barbers Performance Racing School last sumer.  That was the biggest kick in the pants I have ever had.  Learning drifting skills at redline in a Porsche and then putting your skills to the test on Laguna Raceway.  If they can do I am all for it.

Here I am throwing the 911 around.  To bad the picture doesn't come with sound effects.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2577723849_c71a912a74.jpg?v=0)

I'm not sure what the other side of the story is with the first article, but based on what you said, you ought to like them.  They told motoGP they would not continue to support a 2 stroke program/development if the class was going to change to 600cc 4 stroke.  MotoGP made the rule change, and KTM did just what they said they would do. [drink]

The way I see it in the MotoGP case, KTM finally did what they said. The other cases, no. I miss the 2 strokes, but it was inevitable. Personally, I won't miss KTM. As long as the other manufacturers are on board with Dorna (who knows how long that'll last), there should still be a big enough grid for the mid class 600's.

I still don't see why the move to 4 stroke.

There is going to be a LOT more money tied up in a high rpm 4 stroke than a 2, and a lot more money spend on routine maintenance keeping those valvetrain bits in place as well.

Hippies lol.  Environmentalists hate 2-strokes, manufacturers are getting away from them in production bikes, etc

they are supposed to be keeping tight leash on the technology to keep the costs from being astronomical, we'll see how well it works out in the long run.

I suppose everybody knows by now, but the Skip Barber/KTM school hired Jeff Haney as lead instructor.  He worked at Freddie's school for a long time, and I thought he was a great coach.

there's a thread about that somewhere around here

Ignorance is bliss I guess. You don't know what you're missing. Imo KTM has been a good company to me and they back their products. The Superduke and the R model are superior bikes in every way. If I ever wad up my GSX-R 750 it'll be replaced w/ a RC8... [thumbsup]

If I was the CEO of KTM I wouldn't have given two bikes + spares to a couple of actors (one with nearly no experience at all) just so they could video tape a very daunting trip. Of course we all know that it turned out to be a much larger production than that but from KTM's view they've always gotten their publicity from Paris/Dakar so why would they give a couple of bikes to two actor yahoos, one of which has more money than he knows what to do with. Ewan probably made more money than the price of a KTM Adventure while I've been typing this fer chrissakes....why the hell should he get one for free?

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=35467 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=35467)

To be expected by many other companies as well. Harley has cut 1,100 heads as well. There will be others, nobody is immuned these days.

yeah, of course.  but killing the ama red bull rookies program is kinda unforgivable.

Why? Two strokes are dead from a racing perspective. The 250 class is now 600 4 stroke and KTM doesn't make an I-L 4 so they chose to get out because it no longer was a benefit to anyone, including the participants. What this actually did was present an opportunity for one of the I-L 4 manufacturers to step in and none of them did, even though they're vastly larger corporations than KTM. So imo KTM should be praised for what they've actually done in the last years.

there's 2 more years of 250 GP racing and the 125s aren't going away at all. 

more to the point: when you make a promise to a series, promoters, and much more importantly, a bunch of KIDS, and then at the last minute you pull out, you haven't created an "opportunity".  no manu is going to pick up the series from scratch two months before it begins. 

they in large part promised a bunch of young kids the opportunity of a lifetime and then pulled the rug out from under 'em.  if they were so wise they would have made that announcement along with a contingency plan.  no back-up, no 'sorry, we've fu@ked up", no nothing.  sorry kids, go spit.

praised my ass. 

Sweet.  Another company that is making a profit, but still laying people off.  Of course, they all blame the economy, because it couldn't possibly be greed.  Why not weather the storm with reduced profits for a couple years?  Aren't they (everybody, not just KTM) just exacerbating the conditions they blame for their troubles?

because public companies have to answer to their shareholders. if the shareholders don't see value in the company, they'll dump their shares, which will actually devalue said company.

"Greed is good."  - Gordon Gecko.  It's the tragedy of the commons.  Why should KTM not act in their own self-interest when everyone else will?   ('cept for the Rookies Cup --- that's pretty f'n inexcusable).

They should act in their own self-interest, and (in this country at least, dunno about Austria) they have a legal responsibility to do so.  I'm just questioning short-term benefits vs. long-term costs.  Costs like increasing the newly unemployed who definitely won't be able to afford a new KTM ;D

OK, mainly I'm just whining.

Which is pretty much what the Racer's Forum is for.   [laugh]   [thumbsup]

Since we're talking about the Rookies Cup, I'm interested to see what, if any, long-term crap KTM takes for that move.  I doubt people will have very long memories, especially since KTM doesn't race superbikes in the US.

Well that is the way of the world these days isn't it, I agree w/ many of your points. Another point I haven't heard from any report yet is that, well maybe KTM pulling out may have had something to do with that kid from Bermuda dying last season while qualifying. I can't imagine it would have been good for KTM to continue sponsoring the series perhaps for it to happen again? I'm surprised that I haven't heard of KTM or Red Bull being sued over it. For something like that to happen to a kid again, this year, would have been disasterous for everyone involved.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jan/090116a-rb2.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jan/090116a-rb2.htm)

btw, toriano was killed on the first lap of the race at vir, not qualifying.

It's tragic that Toriano died.
It may seem cold, but that's part of racing, just like it's part of motorcycle riding in general.

From a sponsorship/brand image standpoint, it's not a good thing.
KTM's already got that negative image in the general public, being a motorcycle manufacturer.
Red Bull kinda flirts with that image by sponsoring edgy stuff, weren't they the ones organizing that guy who jumped up onto and then off of a 10-story building ( really F'n nuts, I forget who... derby? ).

People get all bent out of shape when it's kids.
It sucks when it happens in racing.
Just like it sucks when it happens in baseball, of football, or whatever.
Or when they get run over in crosswalks.
If we want to protect our kids, let's just have 'em play video games... oh wait, that's not a good idea  [roll].
< above not intended as a rant  :-\ >


I suspect they've done themselves out of the future opportunity of sponsorships like that.
I would think there would be a collective boo if they tried to sponsor kid's activities again.
( Maybe there's other kid's programs (Motocross?) that they're continuing with? I've done zero research.  ??? )

the new years thing? that was robbie maddison...

Yeah, wasn't it put on by red Bull?
Or am I just totally confused?

KTM is keeping the MotoGP Rookie's thing going, right?

yup, sponsored by red bull.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3803494


yup.

OK, so they're not total dirtbags.  ;D

It does suck that they bailed on the US deal.

Did anyone see any $ numbers for the cost of the US deal?

whatever the numbers are, they were already budgeted.  that money was already 'spent'. you would think that the program that helps kids go racing and would endear them to the entire racing community would be the one they found the cash to keep.

this isn't the first time KTM have made an agreement to go racing and then torpedoed it.  in 2005 they were supplying engines to team roberts; mid-season they pulled out, killing the season for KR.

Just because it was budgeted doesn't mean squat when global sales are down for everyone. KTM is fighting for a bigger piece of the pie and they simply do not have a strong following here in America (even though they sell more bikes than any other Euro manufacturer but BMW) so it makes sense that they pulled out here. I guess they don't do enough fashion shows to be popular enough in the U.S.

Kenny Roberts is a pompous douche anyway. I'd make special detuned engines for Mr. Personality...

no it doesn't.

Jeff Haney named as Chief Instructor...

http://www.skipbarber.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=1851 (http://www.skipbarber.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=1851)

ya don't say....

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=16611.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=16611.0)

I LOVE my ktm from a mechanical standpoint.  Ducati should hire some of the engineering staff from KTM  [thumbsup]

a-holes:  http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Feb/090213b.htm

i really don't have some kind of tourette on this ktm/rookie's topic, it just keeps coming up:

so the new RRX arrives in my mailbox and right away i notice it has one of those pamphlet-advertiser things in it, the really expensive multi-page tear-out kind that make page flipping impossible.  so i look to see what it is...

(http://7mzdt.com/images/ktm.jpg)

obviously this is not in reference to the red bull rookie's cup.  apparently that dept doesn't speak to the marketing dept however.

wow.

Honestly, you're surprising me. KTM is primairily known over here as a a supplier of off-road and Motard bikes but NOT sport bikes. If you were them and had a limited budget what would you push now?

honestly, if i had a choice between throwing money at a market i'm already well-established in or developing a growing market, i'd likely choose growth every time.

exactly.  hence the RC8, the super duke, the rookie's cup..



they just attempted to enter the sport bike arena in a big way with the RC8.  obviously they have made a decision as a company to go after that market.

more to the point, never make a movie about killing dogs or kids.  they promised a bunch of hopeful, talented young kids a chance to go racing... actually, a chance to have a real chance to really go racing.  it would endear them to the entire racing community, grow their brand here, create good will, put them on the tip of the tongue of all those parents and associated adults with wallets.  and get further in bed with red bull; not a bad move if you're interested in pursuing anything in motorsports.

you don't make that promise and then pull out in the eleventh hour.  then you really don't turn around and announce that you are sponsoring some other AMA series.. a move that prompts the media to make fun of you in your own press release.  and then you really really don't spend a ton of money on an advertising insert in a road racing mag that screams READY TO RACE.  an insert that's 90% about your road bikes.

smooth.

Got some information about the school: most of it is pretty generic, but it's $2600 for the two-day.  Registration opens 4/1/09.

One other thing--all of the dates are for Laguna Seca, but it says future locations will be announced later.

Official website is up: http://www.skipbarbersuperbikeschool.com/ (http://www.skipbarbersuperbikeschool.com/)

Michael Czysz is listed as an instructor. 

Edit to add: They write "Powered by KTM" everywhere, and it reminds me of the "brought to you by Carl's Jr." line from Idiocracy.