Ducati Monster Forum

ok, i;'m being a wimp in corners...

yesterday i noticed while turning right on the twisties i was drifting wide, basically not leaning enough. i had to say to myself OUTLOUD LEAN LEAN to make the corners. i didnt do it so much on the left turns.

it's cold here so i'm only getting a couple of short 45 minutes runs to/from work like once every 3 weeks. well honestly i've been on the bike 4 times since july. (long story)

anyway, is there a way to gain my cornering confidence back before spring arrives. like a mental lesson or something?

I had the same trouble with right-handers. We aren't symmetrical creatures: try doing a cartwheel in one direction and then the other & take note of the difference in your posture. I made a conscious effort to turn my hips the direction I was turning and lean forward in the same direction and it solved the problem. The bike will go where you look without thinking about it and that translates to more confidence. [thumbsup]

p.s. it's worse when it's cold and you're not as loose as normal (plus the fear of poorer traction).

also on the road i'm on, if you go wide on the lefts (going home) you're off a HUGE drop.

true i am worried a bit about cold roads.
by the time i get to the twisties i've had unrestricted autobahn to bring the tires up to temp...

crap i don't know, but i need more riding time  [bang]

I'm a lefty and noticed I can turn left much better than turning right as confirmed by the bigger chicken strip on the right side. I  just rediscovered the technique to get into the turning speed way ahead of the turn instead of waiting till near the turn to slow down. Stay on that speed the entire turn then slowly blip your throttle as you are in the apex of the turn. Will force myself to use this technique till it becomes second nature.

But as you know, the posted speed limit is meaningless. You have to base the limit on the condition of the day. Ride safe!

what's wierd is that i'm doing the right set up for the turns-- downshifting, braking early, on the throttle to setup the suspension-- then i just don't lean. so half way through i am going wide, and YELLING at myself to lean lean lean. which i do, but i should have more confidence going into the turn.

this is the curviest stuff i've ever ridden at this temperature. i do worry about the tires sliding. but they should be at temp right? they wouldn't slide because the road is cold would they?


crap weather is going to be good for a day or two then back to snow and subfreezing.  i will work more next break in the weather.

First of all, stop saying anything to yourself OUT LOUD while cornering.  You may startle other riders or, worse, cause them to obey you - a common but often overlooked cause of accidents ("But officer, that man TOLD ME to speed up!!")

Actually, say whatever you need to to get yourself to remember what you should be doing in a corner.  But if you haven't already, get yourself a copy of Lee Parks' book, TOTAL CONTROL, and read the chapter that breaks down the 10 steps to proper cornering.  Really, really valuable info, with lots of photos, and it lends itself well to visualization if you can't actually be riding.  The parking lot drills he recommends in the book are also very useful.  You can easily find it online...

Startle other riders?  You're kidding right?  I talk to myself in the helmet just like this and there is NO WAY anyone is going to hear me, even if I was to give it my all.  Hell the majority of people in full face helmets can barely communicate at a stop light, bikes are idle and visors up.  At speed, visor down with my 900 belching out a tune... no one hears me but me.  Sure if you're in a position where it could cause a problem, you've got to bear that in mind - but talking to yourself in the helmet's just for you.

Like you Raux, i'll talk to myself, sometime 'more lean!' sometimes just step by stepping the technical points of a turn.  These are those 10 points that Top mentions above.  He's right that Parks book is a very good reference.

i'm pretty sure he was kidding about the talking out loud. unless you have a communicator, then that could get confusing :D

talkign to myself out loud also helps me clear my thinking.

Not sure where you are, but if it is cold there is probably a good deal more gravel, sand, etc on the road than normal.  Maybe it is a good thing to be conservative at this point.  I'm in Seattle and have found that the roads conditions change radically day to day.  Last week I was going about my merry way when a road that was totally clear the day before was covered in gravel.  I've also always wondered what the increased humidity of winter plus temps in the mid 30's to mid 40's does for traction on otherwise dry and clear roads.    To cope, I've been working on keeping the bike upright and hanging off a bit more.  I'll put it together when it stops raining and heats up.....in July ugh. 

I'm pretty sure I was kidding.  [cheeky]

Re: chicken strips being some kind of gauge as to which side you're more comfortable on:  I have the opposite results.  My strips on the left are basically gone, but I still have 1/4" or so on the right.  But I'm more comfortable hanging off on the right.  So I lean the bike a bit less on that side.  With better body position, you actually should have some MORE chicken strips left...at least for a while.

your also more likely to die on a right turn than a left turn. I think youre doing subconsciously and not realizing it.
the article is posted somewhere here, but its a general rule of thumb.

most riders dont over steer the bike, they under steer and run wide. and when you run wide on a right hander, you run into another lane, and generally speaking cars go in the opposite direction there, so you have a greater chance of being injured. its a subconscious thing. I wouldnt be to worried about it, because its a good thing when your riding out on the street.

OK WELL i got a bit more agressive with my leaning and turning today. it was COOOOOOLD 30 degrees

i went back to the riding instructor with my own bike and did SOOO much better. i knew what the hell the bike was going to do, go figure.

anyway i did notice the road conditions more today and yes more gravel and wet spots. but i felt confortable.

I would suggest that you buy the book Total Control by Lee Parks and work on the suggestions found in each chapter.  That's the best book that I've read on how to properly control a motorcycle.  It will explain step by step how to smoothly get a bike through a corner, going into every detail of bike control and body positioning.

I would also suggest Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough for how to safely pick a good line through a corner.  Those books have had the biggest effect on making me a safer rider.

Finally, I suggest that you not try to push the limits of traction when the temperature is below about 50 degrees.  The roads are much less likely to offer good traction and your tires are much less likely to remain at optimal temperature when it's colder.

Thanks. i will be ordering the Lee Parks next week.

Maybe it's because we drive on the right side of the road making right turns that much sharper.

And, the total opposite of those that drive on the left.

actually that does make sense.

I will echo Mr. Nelson, do not push as hard in cold weather.  Cold asphalt DOES effect grip level, not to mention the condition of the road surface.  Your tires will grip, but not as well as they would in warmer temps.  Asphalt, when warm, actually flexes just like your tires, although at a much smaller rate.  Ever seen blacktop crack?  It occurs when the tar is no longer bonding with the aggregate due to age, wear, extreme temperature changes, etc.  An asphalt road laid in summer is more likely to crack as it contracts in the winter months.  The percentages of tar and aggregates(rock,sand,shell if you live on the coast) are closely controlled, and depend on region, climate, and intended use of the roadway being built.  Ever heard road racers complain about track conditions after several car events have been held.....all the braking zones are rippled(esp. F1 circuits).  Tracks usually have a tackier mix with less aggregate to promote grip(flex) on the surface.

So, cold asphalt will not work with you, and is a much harder surface in winter months.  If your tires slip on cold blacktop they are much less likely to regain grip.  Good luck with the confidence thing 8)

I have no chicken strips on my left side and very little on my right. You have to remember that when in the twisties, at least here we don't have that much room when making right turns. Your also in a huge blind spot. I for one will not push it as hard knowing I can't see around that corner.

If I find myself way off line in a corner it's usually due to not looking all the way through the turn.  The reverse is true as well, rather than yelling, look where you want to be/go.

Have you taken the MSF course? Do so if you haven't.

Order the video Ride Like a Pro. It's by a former motorcycle cop and teaches you all you need to know about cornering, U-turning, leaning, etc.

ridelikeapro.com