* THIS IS JUST A HUMOROUS OBSERVATION ON WHAT SOCIETY HAS BECOME. PLEASE NO POLITICAL RESPONSES *
I'm already in enough trouble today...
-- On HIGH SCHOOL -- 1957 vs. 2007
Scenario 1:
Jack goes quail hunting before school and then pulls into the school parking lot with his shotgun in his truck's gun rack.
1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.
Scenario 2:
Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.
1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2007 - Police called and SWAT team arrives -- they arrest both Johnny and Mark. They are both charged them with assault and both expelled even though Johnny started it.
Scenario 3:
Jeffrey will not be still in class, he disrupts other students.
1957 - Jeffrey sent to the Principal's office and given a good paddling by the Principal. He then returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. He becomes a zombie. He is then tested for ADD. The school gets extra money from the state because Jeffrey has a disability.
Scenario 4:
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. The state psychologist is told by Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has an affair with the psychologist.
Scenario 5:
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1957 - Mark shares his aspirin with the Princip al out on the smoking dock
2007 - The police are called and Mark is expelled from school for drug violations. His car is then searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario 6:
Pedro fails high school English.
1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college.
2007 -
Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against the state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English is then banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given his diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.
Scenario 7:
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed.
1957 - Ants die.
2007 - ATF, Homeland Security and the FBI are all called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. The FBI investigates his parents -- and all siblings are removed from their home and all computers are confiscated. Johnny's dad is placed on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.
Scenario 8:
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. She hugs him to comfort him.
1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - His teacher is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy
[popcorn]
Quote from: CowboyBeebop on January 30, 2009, 11:25:55 AM
[popcorn]
+1
Also, regardless of the rules/regulations/law enforcement agencies involved, high school is less about knowledge and more about endurance. Its not what you know, its what you can put up with.
Quote from: Obsessed? on January 30, 2009, 12:38:44 PM
+1
Also, regardless of the rules/regulations/law enforcement agencies involved, high school is less about knowledge and more about endurance. Its not what you know, its what you can put up with.
I dont get it.
I thought this was just a joke about how times be changing!
Quote from: He Man on January 30, 2009, 12:45:59 PM
I dont get it.
I thought this was just a joke about how times be changing!
So as to be clear:
Quote from: Obsessed? on January 30, 2009, 12:38:44 PM
+1
I agree with the above sentiment. I am anxiously awaiting responses from those who cannot abide by forum guidelines and will try to turn this into a political thread.
Quote from: Obsessed? on January 30, 2009, 12:38:44 PM
Also, regardless of the rules/regulations/law enforcement agencies involved, high school is less about knowledge and more about endurance. Its not what you know, its what you can put up with.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Each of the above listed scenarios and their responses is valid. That said, with everything that has changed in the last 50 years or so, a large percentage of the population from then AND now think that "hell" and "high school" are synonymous.
1957? Heck, it was still like that in 1987. [laugh]
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's not about politics.
It's the fault of Stephen Bochco. Everyone watched LA Law in the 80's and thought it'd be cool to sue each other.
Quote from: superjohn on January 30, 2009, 03:51:58 PM
1957? Heck, it was still like that in 1987. [laugh]
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's not about politics.
It's the fault of Stephen Bochco. Everyone watched LA Law in the 80's and thought it'd be cool to sue each other.
I'm going to go as far as to say it was the same in 1997
Columbine was the turning point
Quote from: Mother on January 30, 2009, 05:33:50 PM
I'm going to go as far as to say it was the same in 1997
Columbine was the turning point
Things were gradually changing prior to Columbine, though that was a major catylist. Then came 9/11.
The scenarios outlined are all to real.
Long past time to put the P.C. bullshit to rest and get back to that long forgotten concept called personal responsibility.
i vote for 1987 as the last sane year...
no reason will be given, and no politics discussed
Quote from: Obsessed? on January 30, 2009, 01:42:52 PM
So as to be clear:
I agree with the above sentiment. I am anxiously awaiting responses from those who cannot abide by forum guidelines and will try to turn this into a political thread.
Eh, this was political from the first post. Just nobody has disagreed with it yet. (Cough. Pedro does what again?)
I think it was intended as a chuckle we could all share, so I think we should be careful not to get too bent out of shape. But, social commentary and politics are like siblings. Incestuous siblings.
Quote from: il d00d on January 30, 2009, 08:20:02 PM
Incestuous siblings.
which as a society is still frowned upon.... How many degrees of separation does it take for it to not count as siblings?
Quote from: He Man on January 30, 2009, 08:54:32 PM
which as a society is still frowned upon.... How many degrees of separation does it take for it to not count as siblings?
Why ya askin'? MMhmmm-that's what I thought.
In 1957 when kids brought guns to school, they weren't bringing them to kill other kids.
When I went to high school from 2000 - 2004, the guns were being brought to school to hurt people.
When the fights happened, one person generally didn't walk away. Ever seen someone get curbed? I did on the way to English.
Goddamnit, make the beast with two backs making a logical response every line in the original post.
I wish we lived in `57, when it was so nice outside.
But we don't.
Quote from: He Man on January 30, 2009, 08:54:32 PM
which as a society is still frowned upon.... How many degrees of separation does it take for it to not count as siblings?
While we are skating this thin ice, let's try a double axel :)
I remember reading this a while back - The Straight Dope on the origins of first-cousin marriage laws. (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2564/whats-wrong-with-cousins-marrying)
My god, the hundreds of hours I have wasted on that site. My thirst for factoids cannot be slaked...
Not everything was wonderful way back then. yes, times have changed.
alfisti - you're showing your age. You'll have to show up to DIMBY with 2 bottles of the good stuff!!
(to redeem yourself - otherwise, screw off!!)
Quote from: lauramonster on January 30, 2009, 10:22:51 PM
Not everything was wonderful way back then. yes, times have changed.
alfisti - you're showing your age. You'll have to show up to DIMBY with 2 bottles of the good stuff!!
(to redeem yourself - otherwise, screw off!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYyo7dEPvwU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYyo7dEPvwU)
I've got it scheduled and the good stuff I will bring. [thumbsup]
Quote from: alfisti on January 31, 2009, 04:20:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYyo7dEPvwU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYyo7dEPvwU)
WTF?! I was looking at this exact same clip right before I came to this thread?! ??? ??? ???
Herm..I graduated a couple years after you. "Normal" times didn't end with the Class of '87. Somewhere in the 90's is when it changed and then ..like others have already stated..Columbine an 9/11) There were fights all the time in school in my school. I never saw a cop once or any outside "forces" coming. The school handled the situations. Everyone lived and turned out fine.
I've worked in several high schools over the past few years, you should see the hightech equipment they have in there now! Current one has 2 cops..one with a police dog. Who, by the way, was off school grounds and searching through buildings in my area on Thursday!
Quote from: wbeck257 on January 30, 2009, 09:25:32 PM
Goddamnit, make the beast with two backs making a logical response every line in the original post.
I wish we lived in `57, when it was so nice outside.
But we don't.
Eh, I figure if the 50's were so great, we wouldn't have gotten the 60's out of 'em.
Think about it-dating with no sex? I'd turn to drugs too.
I hope no one is actually fooled by those trite, simplistic comparisons [roll] - the real world is a little more complicated than that.
There are perfectly good reasons schools don't allow firearms, don't let kids settle differences with uninterrupted violence, and don't turn a blind eye to parents that beat their children.
It may seem like schools overreact to things these days, and may times they do, but that's because they are keenly aware of the far greater consequences of underreacting.
yes
the lawsuit
In my personal experience, the shift happened between '87 and '97.
In the early 90's, one of my buddies brought his BB gun to class for show-and-tell. The teacher complimented him on safe handling (keeping finger off trigger, pointed down & away from people, etc), and used it as a teaching moment on safe practices with firearms.
Today?
He'd have gotten keelhauled and his parents lambasted as violent lunatics if they even asked to bring a BB gun to show-and-tell.
It started changing sometime in the early-to-mid 90's, then I would agree Columbine was a catalyst for further restriction.
Anyway, I prefer the old-skool ways of personal responsibility & accountability. My older coworkers are always surprised to find out I'm only 25... last time we were out shooting pool and discussing music, they all concluded I was born in the wrong decade. ;D One coworker believes I have an "old soul."
fP... dude, not even gonna start. [roll]
Quote from: MrIncredible on January 31, 2009, 09:36:34 AM
Eh, I figure if the 50's were so great, we wouldn't have gotten the 60's out of 'em.
[bow_down] +a zillion
there were plenty of good things about the 1950s, but there were plenty of bad things as well. I don't want to draw political lines, but think about repression and segregation then draw your own conclusions.
High Schools are really sad. I work in one. When kids fail, the teachers are to blame. When kids come to an ELEVENTH grade class with a THIRD grade reading level, the ELEVENTH grade teacher is to blame. When you toss a kid out of class for disrupting, the principal decides to hear the kid out and you have to justify your actions to the point where it's easier to just pretend the kid isn't making it impossible to learn. It takes a dedicated professional to fight that fight every time and too few have the patience after dealing with 130 different personalities on a daily basis and trying to get them to pass an 8th grade level test administered to a 10th grade class with a 4th grade reading level. I can't imagine someone wanting to go into this profession - it's a no-win situation because there's really no personal responsibility. When it's not working, it's the teacher's fault, but when the teacher has a solution, they're ignored for the high-priced ex-teacher consultants who have
research on their side.
(end rant, and remember - this is the far left perspective! [beer])
Quote from: redxblack on February 03, 2009, 06:25:42 PM
[bow_down] +a zillion
there were plenty of good things about the 1950s, but there were plenty of bad things as well. I don't want to draw political lines, but think about repression and segregation then draw your own conclusions.
High Schools are really sad. I work in one. When kids fail, the teachers are to blame. When kids come to an ELEVENTH grade class with a THIRD grade reading level, the ELEVENTH grade teacher is to blame. When you toss a kid out of class for disrupting, the principal decides to hear the kid out and you have to justify your actions to the point where it's easier to just pretend the kid isn't making it impossible to learn. It takes a dedicated professional to fight that fight every time and too few have the patience after dealing with 130 different personalities on a daily basis and trying to get them to pass an 8th grade level test administered to a 10th grade class with a 4th grade reading level. I can't imagine someone wanting to go into this profession - it's a no-win situation because there's really no personal responsibility. When it's not working, it's the teacher's fault, but when the teacher has a solution, they're ignored for the high-priced ex-teacher consultants who have research on their side.
(end rant, and remember - this is the far left perspective! [beer])
Agreed. A number of my friends (including my bro in law) and they vaguely equate modern teaching with glorified babysitting. They don't have to plan lessons. All they need to do is read off what the district is telling them to read just so the children can make the higherups look good on standarized tests.
Regarding the segregation and repression, I'm glad that it's no where near the level that it used to be but it's still evident. My Sr. year was characterized by a intracity gang fight at a football game (two schools from across the same town - i.e. rival gangs) which preceded 7 of those students getting expelled. Shortly after, Jesse Jackson and his coalition came roaring into town followed by Mathew Hale and a contingent of the KKK which ended up as two days off of school for us and the remainder of the semester spent with metal detectors and FBI snipers on the roof. True, there is a fine line between over and underreaction, I just hope someday we'll be able to straddle it.
Quote from: redxblack on February 03, 2009, 06:25:42 PM
High Schools are really sad. I work in one. When kids fail, the teachers are to blame. When kids come to an ELEVENTH grade class with a THIRD grade reading level, the ELEVENTH grade teacher is to blame. When you toss a kid out of class for disrupting, the principal decides to hear the kid out and you have to justify your actions to the point where it's easier to just pretend the kid isn't making it impossible to learn. It takes a dedicated professional to fight that fight every time and too few have the patience after dealing with 130 different personalities on a daily basis and trying to get them to pass an 8th grade level test administered to a 10th grade class with a 4th grade reading level. I can't imagine someone wanting to go into this profession - it's a no-win situation because there's really no personal responsibility. When it's not working, it's the teacher's fault, but when the teacher has a solution, they're ignored for the high-priced ex-teacher consultants who have research on their side.
(end rant, and remember - this is the far left perspective! [beer])
Were you kidding about the "far left perspective"? Because I come from a "far right perspective", and I don't think your assessment is off-base. I don't know if you and I see eye-to-eye on the cause and effect, but I think your assessment of the current situation is realistic. Sadly so.
I think what you observe is the symptom of our society's drift away from enforcing personal responsibility and accountability starting at a young age. Kids need to be punished when they misbehave, they need to be taught there are consequences to their actions, and parents need to be
parents instead of handing their children off to someone else for rearing.
My personal opinion is this shift away from personal responsibility is a result of the "Me generation" philosophy of selfish indulgence that started in the 60's. This was not crushed or pushed back against, and then the selfish started having and raising kids of their own while further diminishing the sense of responsibility imparted to their children.
Hopefully I didn't cross a political line there... that was intended to be an observation on society in general. But, if my track record holds true, it'll probably generate another sh!tstorm of controversy. [roll]
Okay, back to work.
Quote from: BibleBoy on February 04, 2009, 01:06:02 PM
<snip>
I think what you observe is the symptom of our society's drift away from enforcing personal responsibility and accountability starting at a young age. Kids need to be punished when they misbehave, they need to be taught there are consequences to their actions, and parents need to be parents instead of handing their children off to someone else for rearing.
<snip>
+11ty billion.
I was in high school from 98-02. Fights, gangs, kids being incredibly disruptive in class, and I went to one of the better schools in the county. These kids had no parents around and talked back to any authority figure they could find. They had no respect for other students or teachers.
It was absolutely ridiculous.
We never had any problems with disruption in class, or gangs, or fights.
I suppose private school does have its benefits.
private schools have the option to turn people away and GENERALLY have more involved parents. Parents and the ability to read are the two biggest determiners for success in education. If you have those two, even a couple years of bad teachers can be overcome. If you don't have those two, even great teachers will likely still fail. I'm not saying that to point fingers or defend poor teachers (they make my job harder), but to vent a bit as a member of a denigrated profession in a failing society.
and bibleboy - I remember from the failed experiment of the politics subforum that we have VERY different political ideologies. On that political compass thing, I was in that lower left quadrant pretty deeply. Still, individual personal responsibility is absolutely essential for any kind of social organization. we might differ on how that should get instilled/patched/compensated or on the causes of the failures to attain it, but we'd probably agree on more core values than we'd disagree.
Politics do not exist here...
so stop talking about them. ;D
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 04, 2009, 01:36:37 PM
We never had any problems with disruption in class, or gangs, or fights.
Neither did I...
but I were home edjumacated. ;)
Quote from: BibleBoy on February 04, 2009, 04:58:52 PM
Neither did I...
but I were home edjumacated. ;)
You were stuck in a house with a number of other teenage boys and there weren't fights?
Do tell.
Okay... well, the three of us did break a coffee table once. ;) But that was just normal male-sibling sparring, nothing serious. There wasn't enough chaos or conflict to seriously hamper our schooling. (I did, after all, proceed to graduate from college Magna Cum Laude with a degree in rocket science)