Ducati Monster Forum

Was talking to a NFI guy yesterday,in our conversation the topic of the monster forum and the monster enthusiast comunity came up.The question was by him ,Is the Street fighter going to be looked at as a replacement for the S4RS and will it be considered a super monster or will it be seen as the beginning of the end of the monster style range  ???

(http://gallery.ducatispot.com/image_db/ums/10025.jpg)

My thoughts are that it is going to be a bit like the HM.
An individual model, not really Monster and not really naked 1098.
It certainly spells the end of a 4V Monster but I'm not sure if the SF will continue beyond one or two life cycles.

I concur.  [coffee]

yep same here,
for ducati to go down the "fashionable" road they have set in motion events that will spell their doom.
ducati have always done their own thing and others have emulated them, i hope their stocks of t-shirts and caps are ok cause monsters made up two thirds of bike sales, now with only the two monsters in the range relying on the rest to sell like the monster has will be a difficult ask.

Don't know if i agree totally  ??? Ducatisti have evolved some what since the release of the first monster into more sophisticated buyer's [wine] now wanting the latest in technology and styling, as per the 696 where us old school monster owners snubbed our noses at first [puke] it has now got our attention fitted with the larger donk :D  8)

Any change that is going to make our current rides look out dated is going to rub us the wrong way at first, but in time our logic and eye for style will prevail [moto]

In any case the monster still lives on less the S4RS, which in reality where could Ducati go with it  ??? Financial the 2 valve monster was the winner for Ducati ,They just superceded the lesser of and replaced with an avenue for the S4Rs up graders :-[

It shall indeed be interesting to see the evolution of the Monster over the next few years. I do like that "Older" Monster style but also open to change.....  [roll]

Yea I will have a look at the Street Fighter when it comes out....  8)

Will the SF evolve???? I think it will as we do (some of us) like "the latest technology and styling".

I believe that Ducati are aiming at "newer" Ducatists with the new Monster & SF range....

The rest of the traditional Ducati owners will still run their older models and love them regardless (EG: ST owners)......

i've owned dukes since before the monster was first released and i don't know that i've evolved far enough to like the street fighter, looks too much like an aprilia tuono to me. i love the 1098 i loved the 998 and i still own my 888 but there is no way i could warm to the 999, even now i'm used to the shape, ugly is ugly, fullstop. but, at least they weren't copying anybody. I'm going to sound like a real snob here, some might call me a wanker but i'm glad i ride my 888 and even my 5 year old S4R, at least i'm not being confused with the new breed of "sophisticated" ducatisti who look at them as a fashion item, to be seen arriving at a coffee shop on,that's what harleys are for. ducati are real bikes that are built to be ridden hard and fast. i feel embarassed for these middle aged born again bikers who have just forked out for the latest 1198 with ducati leathers, ducati helmet, ducati gloves and huge chicken strips that show they haven't got a clue.
while i'm venting i'll add that they should buy another monaro or GT because they're just going to fall off, get it written off and then buy a car, pushing bike premiums up in the process!!!

ahh, i feel better now!

paul.

I dunno. I love the original monster form factor, always will  [bow_down]. But by the same token I love the Hypermotard and the 696/1100. At the end of the day, stuff needs to evolve one way or the other.  The prelease specs of the Streetfighter indicate that it will kick_serious_ass, as well as having traction control etc.

I spoke to a couple of guys in Seattle Ducati today who have actually sat on the thing, and they reckon it feels a lot more like a Monster/Hypermotard from a stance perspective than any of the 1098/848 style bikes. If someone can do pipes for it that move the cans up under the seat horizontally as opposed to the vertical right side pipes, I reckon it will be a winner.

However, given the ~$24K USD pricetag on the Streetfighter S, I have feeling it will be $35K+ AU, maybe more.. Not sure if anyone will be willing to pay that in these 'uncertain economic times'.

But 150HP + traction control makes it worth a look, if nothing else.

24k U.S!!! really?? that's some serious coin. it will be interesting to see what it retails for here, the S4RS was what? 24k aud?

paul.

Yeah that is serious coin. But just look at the price of the M1100s $24k on road, plus pipes at the usual $2.5-$3k for pipes/ecu.
Then whatever else you wish to add that's getting near $30k for a 2V Monster, far above what the S4Rs went for.
As for the SF, if that's what it's going for in the US then I can't see it selling in volume here.

But then Ducati have been trying to re-brand themselves in the Premium Market in recent years.
They seem to be looking for a new buyer who isn't so taken with a single model but keen to own many models in the range.

To be quite honest, this will not work. IMO.

I don't know why, it just won't. It smacks of snobbery.  >:(

yeah but I think that's what they want.
I do remember hearing somewhere the words "Porsche" in there re-positioning of the brand.
Doesn't mean that ownership of good pre-loved examples (or your current) will be expensive but it means buying into new models will cost more
than it did going back 5 years of so.

Well, I'll probably never buy a new one.  :'(  Either a used Duc or a new Triumph.  :-\

If you were to take the view that the Street Fighter will attract NEW buyers to ducati. ie those that are currently buying Brutale, Turono, Moto Morini, K1200R, Buell, CB100R, Z1000, Superduke, Speedtripple, etc because they didn't think that the S4R Monster cut it then the bike should attract its own new following. They well likely be very different from us choosing not to customise their machines and stick with an off the shelf versions. (heaven knows it costs so much to start with that many wouldn't have any $$$ left for pipes and bling!.)

If all teh SF does is cannibalise the current Monster comunity into v2 traditionalist and those wanting the extra v4 power and performance then it may simply be seen as an S4R replacement monster. Certainly the style of riding will be similar to what we now do on Monsters.

I remember when I read the first review of the v4 Monster, all the journo's where saying that finally Ducati had placed a decent donk into a fantastic bike. At the time the other marques were playing catch to Ducati. With some of the bikes I listed above many have simply chosen those as they see the Monster as old and dated.

mate, ducati have always been THE premium bike brand, harley have their own niche but if you want to compare apples with apples you really need to compare the superbike range. as far back as i can remember the current superbike be it the 851, 888, 916, 996, 998, 999, 1098 have always cost in the region of 40% more than their japanese rivals, the exception to this is the homologation specials, the yamaha OW01, the honda RC30, the suzuki GSXR750RRand the kawasaki ZXR750RR all good bikes and collectable these days, but still, the ducati SP models were better equipped, harder to get, crikey, i waited 9 months for my 888 strada!!! and were absolute belters out of the box. the japanese "SP's" were making about 100hp but had the "potential" for serious power, if you bought the factory gear like HRC magnesium carbs at 5k a set!. in short, the ducati road going superbike was closer to a proper race bike that any of the jap stuff, and the ducati SP range was closer still, you paid a price for the hardware as well as the exclusivity but names like "ohlins" "brembo" "marchesini" "magnetti marelli" these are premium bits not found on other road going bikes until yamaha bought ohlins and made discount R/T stuff for all and sundry. oh and ducati were the first to successfully make an injected motorcycle that was sold to the public.
premium!.

paul.

True dat, they are a premium bike.

What I'm saying is they are getting too expensive, for me anyway. For me to upgrade to a new 1100 is way out of my league. So I would have to stick to the S2R, which I would be extremely happy with, probably moreso than the new 1100. I couldn't see myself keeping on buying new entry level Monsters. Personally, I think they should have kept the 800 which is/was an excellent package.

But where the 4V Monster was a little out of my league, the SF is not even on my radar. I'd rather spend the >$30K on something else.  :-\

me too mate! me too.
besides, updating to the lightest, fastest stupidest named japawaki is for the jap sportsbike crowd so they can sit around arguing about which one does 300kph and "mine has 156.6 hp!!! yours only has 156.2 so mine is waaay faster!"


paul.

Only repeating what I've heard/been told Paul.
Yes Ducati has always cost more the Jap bikes when it comes to SBK's
But the Monster range has been it's bread and butter volume seller.

I think that this is where they are trying to re-position themselves by raising the cost of ownership in the Monster and now SF models.

Again just what I've read and been told by industry people. 

yep that's true. did you know that in 06 two thirds of dukes sold were monsters!!! TWO THIRDS!
I wasn't really disputing what you said, i just wanted to clarify that ducati, who have always been involved in racing have the superbike as their flagship range. the monsters are awesome, we're all here aren't we !!!!? but ducati's reputation lives and dies with superbikes and winning races, and at that there is no equal. Just look at the desmosedici, no other manufacturer has had the balls to build and market anything like that, and they did that before they won the world title with stoner, could honda and yamaha make a road version of their rc211v or M1? yes, but would there be a market for it, i mean really a market not just guys saying yeah i'd have one!!! i doubt it, you need brand loyalty to commit to spending what was it vince??? 100K ? jap riders change brands and bikes like they change their jocks!


paul.

--> this is more of an observation, not my opinion.
Ducati have to (financially to survive) move out of the niche/prestige that has surrounded it for so long (how often has some one made the oh so expensive to buy & service comment) and more into mass market. Hence you see them following the trends instead of setting it (ie Hypermotard, StrtFtr etc). Their thinking globally though, because what little business NFi does for Ducati these days (compared to before) is pittance in overall sales....
On the flipside, a sediciRR or similar everynow and then will be to quench the older Ducatisti looking for that niche/one off apeal.

Very true Paul, I knew that Monsters were the staple in the Ducati diet.

Seems to me and maybe a few others that if they re-position the Monster too much and leave us with a true 4V option
they are relying on a new buying public to pick-up and "Love" the SF as much as Monster riders "Love" their bikes.

Take me as an example, I have been round and round in the last few months and finally decided that a bigger Monster is where I will put my
$$$ in upgrading from the 620 which has served me very well.
Once a Monster rider always a Monster rider, other bikes might enter the frame but there will always be a Monster.
Time will tell if the SF is loved in the same way or it will be bought and sold by transient bike riders who are after the "best" new toy on the block
from whoever happens to make it.
But then if they are targeting a Porsche style "love" for the brand, I am told once you own a 911 you will always own a 911.
Some goes for us the Ducati buyer, it's just a matter of what we personally like.

im with super theres no way i to can aford upgrade at that price plus they still look like shit so i either keep the old girl or buy a different brand  [bang]

don't buy a different brand unless you've had a live with it experience for a week or so. i wrote off my 748SP in 97 and at the time it was an impossible bike to get hands on let alone replace, i got the shits with nfi bullshit, you know, that will be 6 months wait and we expect the price to rise by 3 grand by then sir! bastards!
so i bought a triumph daytona. what a waste of my time and money, yes, they are a good bike but it wasn't for me, got very boring, very quickly. then i couldn't sell it, i had to just about give it away to get it out of the house. honestly, once bitten by the ducati bug it's hard to settle for anything else.

paul.

Old phrase going around in relation to selling sport bikes and Cars, "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday"  While Ducati are winning they will always sell their SBK range...
S/F for me is not a monster never will be a monster, if it is successful (worldwide) it may bringa bout the demise of it, but never replace it!

Great discussion guys. The Porsche reference has lots of meaning, I think. Throughout the late 1980's and early 1990's, Porsche fell out of  love with the 911, and concentrated on the newer, front engined models like the 928, and 924/944/968 series. Despite all efforts from Porsche to "modernise" their line and follow trends, people kept buying 911's. Fortunately for their financial survival, Porsche woke up to hemselves and now, the lineup is still 911 based, with a foray into the boxster/cayman range. Ignore the cayenne - its just a glorified Volkswagen toerag anyway.

My point is, Ducati lost the plot with the 999, and have fortunately gone back to their roots with the 1098 and 1198. With Monsters making up two thirds of overall sales, they are mad to buggerise around with the styling of the Monster range too much, and dropping the 4V models in favour of the Streetfigther is a bad strategic move, IMO.

Loony, agree completely. Ducati is a premium brand, and they need to realise it. Sometimes deciding to be a niche player is the best long term survival plan, rather than following trends. Just look at Porsche vs GM and Ford, or Honda vs Harley....The big global brands are in the poo at the moment, but the niche players are coping better.

ducsport