so what brands and styles of torque wrenches would people here suggest for working on the bike?
for the record i am not professional mechanic (if i was i would not be asking this question) and also i figure this is the type of tool that you use on occassion and more often than not its something that is used at times by otehr people that need to "borrow" yours at times. of course you will make sure you get your tools back from people.
i have looked online a bit and have noticed that the name brands, ie, mac, craftsman, snap-on are all around 200 or more for a torque wrench, wow is that stuff really that expensive? also the snap on seems to be the mercedes of the group with their stuff being literally hundreds more, what is the reason for that?
Quote from: sbrguy on February 02, 2009, 03:42:21 PM
so what brands and styles of torque wrenches would people here suggest for working on the bike?
Craftsman is not $200 unless you get the *really* expensive ones. I have Craftsman torque wrenches and have no complaints. I've used Craftman torque wrenches to rebuilt an engine. That said, I wouldn't know what I was looking for in a good torque wrench or not. Craftsman is a brand I trust and was recommended (by DML/DMF folk), so I bought them. I didn't want to go with a Harbor Freight cheapie, but didn't see a point in getting a Snap-ON or SK.
Snap On is a more because for those people that use tools all the time, high quality tools like Snap On are a must (same will be true of torque wrenches). People will tell you stories about other brands snapping off bolts or rounding them off or the tools breaking after a year or two. That said, there's a lot of argument (and brand loyalty) about what tools to use. I'm not a daily mechanic and so don't buy Snap-On. I buy craftman for things like sockets or wrenches and cheaper tools for things like hammers or punches or pliers.
I have (2) Craftsman torque wrenches, and haven't had anything fall of the bike yet. (fingers crossed)
I got a $90-something analog twist-handle to tension craftsman torque wrench and it's served me well. It's cheap enough that I don't mind lending it out to friends and with the craftsman lifetime warranty I don't mind if they break it (which one of them actually did). The decision between digital or analogue was relatively easy for me because the Sears at school only had one of each and the price difference was something like $50. Poor college student - $50 price difference... There's your answer. Whatever you get, as long as you take care of it and use it properly I'm sure it'll treat you well. Remember to always reset to 0 when you're done and you'll be fine. [thumbsup]
The sword-looking torque wrenches are a pain the ass to use. It'll get you close enough most of the time but I wouldn't count on it for accuracy.
I'm gonna buck the trend here and recomend that you take a look at CDI Torque Products.
I have three and can telll you that they are exceptionally well made and very accurate. They come with NIST traceable certifications, a nice case, and cost about $120 for the one that spans 5 ftlbs to 75 ftlbs. Less for the inch pound version and slightly more for the 50 to 250 ftlb version.
I think I'll have these tools for a lifetime and they are fully rebuildable and can be calibrated as needed.
Add to that the fact they are built by Snap-On (I actually think that this company builds all the Snap On torque wrenches) I can notice virtually no difference in a side by side comparison with the exception of the laser etching.
Awesome product - Higly recomended
Here is where I bought mine:
http://www.emaxaction.com/cdiclickwrenchatemax.aspx (http://www.emaxaction.com/cdiclickwrenchatemax.aspx)
http://www.cditorque.com/ (http://www.cditorque.com/)
Snap-On ;D ;D
I have the $10 1/2 drive Pittsburgh torque wrench that, I think, Harbor Freight sells now.
This has worked well for me for years. I've built a few engines with it with no issues after the fact.
While my wrench may not really be giving me 60 foot pounds like the CDI wrenches definitely would, I can say that it's not off by 20 ft/lbs or anything like that.
Torque was accurate when I used a different wrench to double check it.
YMMV
I can't help it, I'm a tool snob. The same as the guy that spends $30k in mods on a $10k STREET bike. Do we really need $2500 forks on a machine that will get you A to B just fine on cheap, production stock ones? Obviously it all depends on your point of view.
I'll admit my Snap-On tourque wrench was just shy of 4 bills, but it's a precision digital instrument that reads in Nm, in/lbs, and ft/lbs. I liken it to the Ohlins of tourque wrenches. Do I really need it? Probably not. Will a $50 craftsman get the job done? Most likely.
But when that tool truck comes to my shop, I get weak in the knees. Just like I do when I see a full Ohlins with billet radial Brembos and ceramic composite rotors.
And yes, you do get what you pay for.
I have a Snap-On
one tip:
Torque wrenches last a lot longer if you keep them indoors and let them acclimate to the outside temp before using.
I own a Snap-On beam type torque wrench, but this is because I am a tech and need high quality tools for the long run. If it's only for occasional use, I think a craftsman would work just fine. Now if your looking for something to use regularly, definitely go with a Snap-On, Mac, or even Matco.
I will say, by no means, use a Harbor Freight type because the calibration may off. Just because it clicks doesn't mean its accurate.....my .02 :D
Hey!
I checked against the $100 craftsman one and it was right there. . .
;)
I still say that for just a little bit more than the 'civilian rated" craftsmen you can get the same thing as the Snap-ON.
I don't have anything against Craftsmen and have a box full of it but the CDI wrenches are a better value in my opinion than craftsmen or snap on.
I went with the craftsman for the foot pound, but was extremely disappointed when it came time to find a decent inch pound torque wrench... until I found that ca-cycleworks has one.
http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/tools.html]
[url]http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/tools.html (http://[url)[/url]
Scroll down to the Measuring/Precision Tool section.
It's compact and good for all the small stuff, afterall it is the small stuff that breaks easier.
I am a professional Porsche tech. I have a $300 dollar 1/4 Matco torque wrench, a 3/8 snap on at 400 bucks, and a 1/2 snap on at around 500 bucks. I wouldn't consider buying a harbor freight torque wrench even for home use because the quality of any of their house brands is shit. Home Depot has husky brand which is about even with the craftsman stuff and you may want to check them out. Porsche sends us special application tools that are required for a specific job. This past week they sent us this fancy $2500 torque wrench that will be used on the upcoming Panamera sedan. It is for tightening aluminum bolts and calibrated only for that. Apparently the newest thing is to use aluminum fasteners instead of steel to shave weight.
Quote from: gage on February 02, 2009, 05:49:07 PM
I'm gonna buck the trend here and recomend that you take a look at CDI Torque Products.
I have three and can telll you that they are exceptionally well made and very accurate. They come with NIST traceable certifications, a nice case, and cost about $120 for the one that spans 5 ftlbs to 75 ftlbs. Less for the inch pound version and slightly more for the 50 to 250 ftlb version.
I think I'll have these tools for a lifetime and they are fully rebuildable and can be calibrated as needed.
Add to that the fact they are built by Snap-On (I actually think that this company builds all the Snap On torque wrenches) I can notice virtually no difference in a side by side comparison with the exception of the laser etching.
Awesome product - Higly recomended
Here is where I bought mine:
http://www.emaxaction.com/cdiclickwrenchatemax.aspx (http://www.emaxaction.com/cdiclickwrenchatemax.aspx)
http://www.cditorque.com/ (http://www.cditorque.com/)
+1 on the CDI wrenches and also emaxaction. I have two to cover the typical ranges on the Monster.
BK
Quote from: Ducaholic on February 02, 2009, 08:06:27 PM
I am a professional Porsche tech. I have a $300 dollar 1/4 Matco torque wrench, a 3/8 snap on at 400 bucks, and a 1/2 snap on at around 500 bucks. I wouldn't consider buying a harbor freight torque wrench even for home use because the quality of any of their house brands is shit. Home Depot has husky brand which is about even with the craftsman stuff and you may want to check them out. Porsche sends us special application tools that are required for a specific job. This past week they sent us this fancy $2500 torque wrench that will be used on the upcoming Panamera sedan. It is for tightening aluminum bolts and calibrated only for that. Apparently the newest thing is to use aluminum fasteners instead of steel to shave weight.
wow alum bolts into a ti base, talk about a situation that is begging for overtorquing... the only thing i can think of better is magnesium bolts into carbon fiber threads.. oh wait that is the entire bicycle industry there.
thanks for some of the suggestions guys, i have called the local home depot and they stock the husky stuff and from what it seems its a good value.
i also looked into the cdi brand, and will give them a call tomorrow, from what it sounds like its lieterally 1/2 between craftsman and snapon in pricing. sounds like it might be all the quality of the snap on but less of a label markup, but i will find out if its actually the same tool or not.
i know in the bicycle industry the lower inch lb torque wrenches are being used by all reputable bike shops as everything on high end bikes now has torque ratings of things like 1 or 2 nm or a few inch pounds and such.. they are selling for well in excess of 150$.
figure i better start learing how to do simple stuff on the bike the correct way from the beginning from chaning the oil, tightening the chain, etc and actually use the correct torque specs on things to hopefully lessen the chance of any screw ups.
thanks for the advice guys, got a question seems like in order to work on a bike any sort even small things easy things you need to buy tons of tools.
is this the second "cost" of modding? ie, the tool acquiring part?
got a question, i noticed on a 620 most of the bolts including the rear axle are tops at 86 nm what bolts "require" the use of the 1/2 inch bit and the larger values?
thanks.
Quote from: sbrguy on February 02, 2009, 09:28:58 PM
is this the second "cost" of modding? ie, the tool acquiring part?
thanks.
You mean the second 'benefit', don't you? ;D
You can see the performance of the $80 craftsman wrenches here:
http://sites.google.com/site/mittelstadtc/Home/file1/torquewrenchcals.pdf?attredirects=0 (http://sites.google.com/site/mittelstadtc/Home/file1/torquewrenchcals.pdf?attredirects=0)
It is a pdf I made after having my personal wrenches calibration checked in our metrology lab at work.
I actually broke my first craftsman 3/8" wrench. Motor oil got on the locking ring on the handle, and made it brittle. The next time I used it, the ring broke. I am not satisfied with the craftsman plastic handle design with printed numbers. The numbers on my wrenches are becoming very hard to read due to wear. I would go for an all steel construction with stamped numbers next time. And, since I have access to a metrology lab, I would buy a cheap wrench, then cal it myself.
mitt
Quote from: sbrguy on February 02, 2009, 09:28:58 PM
----------snip-------------
got a question, i noticed on a 620 most of the bolts including the rear axle are tops at 86 nm what bolts "require" the use of the 1/2 inch bit and the larger values?
thanks.
From memory, the clutch hub nut, primary gear nut, and the flywheel nut are all above 86 n-m.
Not stuff you'll be dealing with in normal servicing on a 620, though.
Quote from: Speeddog on February 03, 2009, 10:10:26 AM
From memory, the clutch hub nut, primary gear nut, and the flywheel nut are all above 86 n-m.
Not stuff you'll be dealing with in normal servicing on a 620, though.
you are right, there is no F-ing way i'm going to touch stuff that difficult. especially since its a wet clutch.
i'm talkign simpel stuff liek chain adjustment and simple checking torque specs on bolts on teh bike, etc...i'm not going to touch the internals of the engine, i'll leave that up to you pros.
saw those specs in the manual the other night noticed they are really high up there like you said, but like you said they are really the only ones that are that high.
Quote from: sbrguy on February 03, 2009, 11:09:55 AM
you are right, there is no F-ing way i'm going to touch stuff that difficult. especially since its a wet clutch.
i'm talkign simpel stuff liek chain adjustment and simple checking torque specs on bolts on teh bike, etc...i'm not going to touch the internals of the engine, i'll leave that up to you pros.
saw those specs in the manual the other night noticed they are really high up there like you said, but like you said they are really the only ones that are that high.
That is where everyone starts [roll]
Before you know you'll be adjusting valve clearances and taking an engine apart to have the crankshaft polished.
Quote from: sbrguy on February 03, 2009, 11:09:55 AM
you are right, there is no F-ing way i'm going to touch stuff that difficult. especially since its a wet clutch.
i'm talkign simpel stuff liek chain adjustment and simple checking torque specs on bolts on teh bike, etc...i'm not going to touch the internals of the engine, i'll leave that up to you pros.
saw those specs in the manual the other night noticed they are really high up there like you said, but like you said they are really the only ones that are that high.
i got an inch/lb and nm wrench in 3/8" that's about a foot long for most small stuff like you are describing. if you need something bigger later, then you can get it. i use the small one the most just because it is so portable.
I own about 7 different torque wrenches
2 beam type- cheap sears
2 snap on torqometer torque wrenches
1 3/8 5-75 ftlb snap on clicker
1 1/2" TQ series snap on
1 3/8 snap on tech angle
each one has a purpose and they all are useful.
The techangle was the most expensive and gets used the least, it is overkill for most jobs.
The 3/8" 5-75ftlb unit gets used the most and has to get re-calibrated the most. $75.00 last time it was done .
The TQ series is nice because for a click type there is no preload on the spring to sack out the spring and change the calibration.
The torqometers are nice quality pieces for dial torque wrenches
The sears beam wrenches almost never go out of adjustment and are axe simple, no bling though and hard to read especially upside down.
remember to pick the range carefully when you are at the edge of the torque wrenches range the accuracy gets worse the close to the edge you get.
how is it that the standard cheap sears beam wrench stays accurate? wtf?
Simple it is not the beam type that is the problem, it is the springs that sag out on a clicker type. If you have a spring loaded torque wrench and you leave spring pressure on the spring (pre-load) over time the spring loses its rate. When this happens the accuracy of the torque wrench gets off, this is why you do not leave a clicker/spring type torque wrench "wound up".
Beam types simply have no spring tension on them until you are using them, this allows them to keep their accuracy. The inherent inaccuracy of this type is not in the tool but in the user. It is hard to be adding torque and getting your eye to line up the pointer with the beam, the beam types also have a floating type of handle that needs to be kept centered (floating) for accurate torque.
Clicker torque wrenches are the easiest to use but must be maintained (calibrated) more often last time mine was done it was almost 10 ftlbs off.
TQ series do not keep the spring under tension so should be less prone to need re-calibration same with the electronic strain gauge type, only time will tell.
Stupid floating handle... You learn something every day i guess...
Looks like all MY bolts are over-torqued... Anyone else?
I am surprised a chinese knockoff digital wrench with a strain gauge hasn't come out yet. It would be pretty simple to do really, and probably superior to the click from a calibration hold standpoint.
mitt
I am too I try not to think of what my snap on cost me.
Hey chinese gotta torque things too!
Quote from: ducvet on February 04, 2009, 05:38:40 PM
Hey chinese gotta torque things too!
that's what she said.
So.. For a weekend wrencher, who isn't going to be going anywhere near the motor/gearbox, aside from the front sprocket... would a torque wrench (i'm looking at the CDI) with a range 10nm-60nm be a sufficient range?
(i dont have my service manual with me)
i think so.
the small ones with inch/lbs on them are usually 3/8" drive and about a foot long. perfect for general work.
You will ultimately want one in the range you listed for things like oil changes as well as front end work. If you are going to change your rear wheel or the large front sprocket nut you will want a 1/2 inch drive that goes up to at least 150 ft lbs
Quote from: Monsterlover on February 02, 2009, 05:52:29 PM
I have the $10 1/2 drive Pittsburgh torque wrench that, I think, Harbor Freight sells now.
This has worked well for me for years. I've built a few engines with it with no issues after the fact.
While my wrench may not really be giving me 60 foot pounds like the CDI wrenches definitely would, I can say that it's not off by 20 ft/lbs or anything like that.
Torque was accurate when I used a different wrench to double check it.
YMMV
I have the 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" wrenches. People on Jeepforum.com have had a lot of luck with them.
My harbor freight clicker is accurate according to my craftsmen beam wrench :-\
Most of the time I use the tried and true "tendons on the wrist popping out measurement" [laugh]
I
As a "professional" I use the tendon method more than most, after a while you do learn what is right. There have been times when using a torque wrench and you get that funny feeling like something is wrong. I have felt problems not caught by the torque wrench, feel is very important.
once a bolt was stretching and you could see is with the tech wrench (digital strain gauge) as the torque number climbed and then fell as the bolt started to fail. A click type never would have shown this.
Quote from: Roscoe on February 02, 2009, 06:19:44 PM
The same as the guy that spends $30k in mods on a $10k STREET bike.
And yes, you do get what you pay for.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/band_nerd216/Random%20Pictures/gary_coleman_romo.jpg)
Quote
I'll admit my Snap-On tourque wrench was just shy of 4 bills, but it's a precision digital instrument that reads in Nm, in/lbs, and ft/lbs. I liken it to the Ohlins of tourque wrenches. Do I really need it? Probably not. Will a $50 craftsman get the job done? Most likely.
But when that tool truck comes to my shop, I get weak in the knees. Just like I do when I see a full Ohlins with billet radial Brembos and ceramic composite rotors.
I agree, but when it comes to torque wrenchs, I think I think the money's better spent on better hand tools, and MORE tools. ;D Craftsman are fine.
FWIW, if you know anyone who works at Sears, twice a year they have a "friends and family" sale, and you can save a boat-load of money. Last time replaced my two 10+ year old Craftsmans with a 3/8' ft/lb and a 1/4 in/lb and got something like 30% off. The new ones are nice, and calibrate-able.
Quote from: Scooter Montgomery on February 25, 2009, 06:35:32 AM
I have the 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" wrenches. People on Jeepforum.com have had a lot of luck with them.
I bought a 1/4 torque wrench from HF and it never passed the "touchy-feely" test. The adjustment dial sucked on it and constantly locked, and I just never trusted the meausurements. Before I replaced it with the Craftsman, I started using the "tendon" method for anything under 20 Nm.
Quote from: gage on February 02, 2009, 05:49:07 PM
I'm gonna buck the trend here and recomend that you take a look at CDI Torque Products.
I have three and can telll you that they are exceptionally well made and very accurate. They come with NIST traceable certifications, a nice case, and cost about $120 for the one that spans 5 ftlbs to 75 ftlbs. Less for the inch pound version and slightly more for the 50 to 250 ftlb version.
I think I'll have these tools for a lifetime and they are fully rebuildable and can be calibrated as needed.
Add to that the fact they are built by Snap-On (I actually think that this company builds all the Snap On torque wrenches) I can notice virtually no difference in a side by side comparison with the exception of the laser etching.
Awesome product - Higly recomended
Here is where I bought mine:
http://www.emaxaction.com/cdiclickwrenchatemax.aspx (http://www.emaxaction.com/cdiclickwrenchatemax.aspx)
http://www.cditorque.com/ (http://www.cditorque.com/)
Thanks for posting this. I found it in a search and have ordered one of the big 1/2" wrenches for my axle nut.
Quote from: Michael Moore on July 18, 2009, 07:12:30 PM
Thanks for posting this. I found it in a search and have ordered one of the big 1/2" wrenches for my axle nut.
My pleasure [thumbsup]
The big one is cool but it is too long for my tool box [bang]
Ya, I had to get one that could handle 230nm, so that means 24" - also too big. But I need the damn thing.