Ducati Monster Forum

I have a question for some experienced riders...... When I took my MSF class the instructors kept getting on my case for only using 3 fingers on the front brake. I was only using a 250 Ninja for the course which maybe had a single 280mm front rotor at best.  I am now riding a 696 with TWO 320mm front rotors! I am only using two fingers to stop the bike and maybe three if I really need to get on it.  I then attended the demo Hypermotard ride last week and the Ducati Rep said use 2 fingers on the brake and if you use 3 you are going to have a "real exciting time!".  What do some of the more experienced riders do here?

Regards,
Ryan

Whatever is comfortable for you.  You just need to be able to use the brake and the throttle at the same time.

Personally, I brake with 2 fingers on most bikes including a ninja 250 race bike ('cept for an occasional 1 finger when I'm trying to steer with trail braking).   I find it easier to regulate how much brake presure I'm applying and also control the throttle when I've got two fingers on each control.   With three fingers, I find it harder to blip the throttle while controlling my level of braking.  When people warn against 3 fingers, it's often because they're concerned that you are accidentally going to use too much pressure and lock up the front.  But that's concern only if your regular practice is not 3 finger braking.   

If you're used to braking with 3 fingers and can still comfortably control the throttle, go for it.  But it's worth playing around with 2 or 4 fingers (I don't mean that in a dirty way) to see what works for you. 

hahah ... thats funny..

Racer.. i always feel more comfortable using 2 fingers on both .. gives me more grip on the bars and some more control if needed ..

I've never gone for the two or three finger thing. I just fill the glass until.....oh wait....nm....

one finger can lift the rear of my bike but I have much more fine control with two...so it's not allways about the power/strength.   

If two gives you enough force with your brakes on your bike I think that's the way to go.

Hmmm... I've been using 1 finger on my 696, but maybe I should try to use 2.

Try it out for a few days.  You'll might find you like it.  You should be able to brake a lot harder with 2 fingers and with more control.  The 696 doesn't have the stopping power or control of--for example--Statler's s4rs or a 1098. 

the MSF course i took MADE me use 4 finger else i didn't pass, but normally i use two. that's why i am thinking about buying shorty levers. if necessary my hands are small enough to grab the shorty with 3. plus i had a habit of also clutching with 3 and crushing my pinkie.

MSF taught 4 as emergency braking. so you wouldn't get on the throttle etc. someone here had an accident starting his bike. i didn't read the whole thread but if he had four finger braked while starting the bike, i doubt he would have had the accident.

so in the end there is a use for the 4 finger, 3 finger (for our great breaks), 2 finger for normal braking and 1 for trail braking.

hmm guess i didn't give a definitive answer.

i use 1 finger for brake when approaching fast corners.it gives me more control and balance with the thorttle at the same time.But of course i wouldnt recommend braking while turning.

Totally a preference thing. I brake with the middle finger/ring finger (no index/pinky)!

(http://confessionsofadildoslinger.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/shocker_tshirt.jpg)

They teach the same thing in the equivalent of the MSF here - as far as I can work out, this was very good advice back when bikes had crappy drum brakes that'd start fading halfway through a 30mph to 0 stop and two finger brakers would be jamming their other two fingers between the lever and the bar before they managed to stop (if that ever happens on a modern hydraulic disk brake setup you've got some _serious_ problems) and like old useless laws, it makes very little sense anymore but people keep treating it as gospel truth...

Having said that, I use whatever is suitable for the bike I'm riding - 2 fingers on the (arguably over-breaked) Monster, 3 or 4 fingers on my Honda or the girlfiends Kawasaki...

big

It seems that there is a consensus on how crappy the brakes were on the bikes at MSF.

Four fingers at MSF needed to stop and to pass the class.

2 fingers on the 696 with Pazzo shorty lever. ALL you need IMHO. I am constantly amazed at the stopping
power of my brakes.

hell yea man... my 696 still amazes me everyday..

when they made me do the 4 finger, i was on the 696. nearly did a stoppy and the whole class was like WOAH. that thing has some serious stopping power.  ;D

I prefer the shocker with thumb attachment. 

kind of funny once.

Let's keep this on braking techniques, please.

Two fingers.

I try to use 2 fingers at all times.  3-4 and feel disconnected from the bars and while 1 is usually enough in town, I don't want to get in the habit.  In an emergency braking situation, chances are you're going to throw up however many fingers you are used to normally braking with.  Unless you have a kungfu grip combined with Brembo monoblocks, 1 finger probably isn't going to cut it. 

1 - 2 fingers.  2 fingers will result in a stoppie on my M900.  I need to get in the habit of using 2 fingers all the time.   [bang]

It is my experience that two fingers is best.

1 finger is prone to tiring more quickly with repeated use and probably wont give you the necessary power.

3 fingers is just too much. Can be uncomfortable. I only recommend it when things are really loose. Might need to change pads if this is the only way to get the necessary power.

2 fingers is easily controlled, comfortable, and should give you the desired results when used properly if equipment is fine

 ;)

I use two, on my single-disc M750.  I have no problems stopping.

JM

I sense double entendres....

Just trying to explain proper brake usage to a fellow ducatisti ;)

Yeah but to the uninitiated, your explanation could open up a whole new line of questioning.....I do like your explanation however.

I use my middle finger, ring finger, and pinky.

Well now you're just asking for comments.

hahah .. this thread is so educational in more than just one way..

 [clap] [clap] i guess what ever is comfy for everyone as long as you can stop the bike as you need it with out you getting thrown off the bike...

Wow, this thread went downhill fast.  And its only a braking technique thread.   [laugh]

That's what she said...

I use 2 fingers on the brake -it seems to suit me and feels natural.  But I’m lacking enough breaking effect for really hard stops, I just don’t have enough strength with only 2 fingers; I can get the bike to haul up well enough but the effort needed masks or negates any feel from the brake, my bikes an S2R and its consensus that the brakes on these are pretty dire.

I’m wondering if I need to move the -brake lever to bar- mounting position inboard a bit, and away from the twist grip to get my 2 fingers placed farther along the lever where greater leverage would be achieved, the trouble with this though is that there’s then a greater reach to the lever; as soon as the weather improves a bit I’m going to have a look at this and see if it makes any difference.

By your descriptions I would venture saying that you have an S2R800. The brakes are pretty worthless on them, but some sintered can go a long way on the short term.

Really, what you should do is scout the market for an upgrade to your braking system. Some pretty good deals show up on the parts for sale board every once in a while.

It is indeed the S2R 800 El Matador, I’m definitely going to swap to sintered pads sometime this spring, I already put them in the back brake and they improved things no end, and intend to stick em in the fronts as soon as I can.  I don’t want to go down the complete new front break system rout though; although I do understand that the 4 piston breaks would be a huge improvement.  But I wonder if a change to an adjustable lever plus moving the mount position might be just enough with some new pads to get me a decent 2 finger brake.

it's cheaper to adjust the lever in and move your hand out further on the bar.  ;D


a member on tob had success with putting his brother's 748 master cylinder on the bike. i can't remember what chris kelly's setup was on his 800 (maybe a different m/c), but i remember him being quite happy w/ the brakes.

I keep 2 fingers on the brake all the time.
Middle finger for power, index is finger for the feel.
SBK Brembo's are another thing.

(Editor MrI.  ;) thanks)

I prefer to keep fingers on the brake.  ;)

Maybe I'm weird... but I use my middle and ring fingers, leaving my pointer and pinky hovering above the break. Kinda rock and roll  8)  [roll]

That then leaves me with two extra fingers  to grab with in emergancy breaking... I guess... assuming I'm already on the brakes when I need to emergancy break... heh... I dunno

wark, I believe that means you do the Vulcan!  but that one's not on your diagram!?

wouldn't Vulcan = "spocker?" I think I do the reverse of that: rock and roll headbanger / ASL "i love you"

(http://novanewsnet.ukings.ca/files/edited_i_love_you.jpg)

ahh, right you are.  I dunno if that's the "I love you" or "Sign of The Devil"...  Spose it depends on where your thumb is...  Strange coincidence that those two are soo similar?  [evil]

I wondered about that!

But on second thought that looks like I brake/clutch with just my index and pinky... maybe what I really do is the "Dane Cook?"

(http://www.channelguidemag.com/articles/images/DaneCook0706.jpg)

Damn... the dane Cook huh?  You're gonna wanna fix that.

On a slightly more serious note, a while back, I put some CRG shortys on an M900 and this DB up at SBDBcati tells me I shouldn't because there's no way you can get enough force out of shorty levers.....  After putting the levers on, the bike continued to be a one finger braker....  When it inevitably went down, the right shorty took the brunt (bent bar crushed the cf tank) and survived without needing so much as a hammer blow.  just scratched up!  On my S2R1K I've got the CRGs in normal length, and I really wish I had the shortys.  I use my index, middle, and ring finger and leave my pinky sticking out ( I'm well aware of what we could call this method, but it's not even a little PC) but I still don't need a full length lever. 

And I have pretty big hands.  Thank goodness

I usually jsut cover with my middle finger.. which is great because when i'm on the street people think im flipping them off for looking at me...

when breaking... usally just the middle... sometimes middle and ring... my pinky is too damn short to reach anything anyways.. lately though with my brake issues... it feels like i need to wrap my whole damn hand around the lever and put all my weight into pulling back on it... its an interesting feeling when you're at the track doin about 140 and you discover you have NO front brake.

I use two fingers, during MSF the instructor told me to use four during the class. But he said that was from his Harley riding perspective and how it took "a few small children to pull back the breaks on the Harley" in comparison to a sport bike.

On traffic i use one finger,the rest of the time it's two.

Was this the MSF ERC?

 it was the basic MSF course.

Weird. As I understand it, the 696's engine is too large for it to allowed in the BRC. Did they make a special exception for you?

don't know. it was through the military... you had to bring your own bike but they did have 250 loaners. shitty little things. a couple of guys used them.

When I first start out on a ride, I'm 2 fiingers, index and FU finger, after a while, those 2 start going numb and losing the real crisp feel to my Brembos, then I go three.   After about 3 hours riding, I'm losing feel real bad in the first 2 and switch to the 3rd and the pinkie, takes a bit of getting used to, but it's what I have to work with.   I start slowing down after that.

LOL @ the show stopper. 

Look at this video.

... about 20 seconds into the video there is a fingers-on-brake demonstration, but I have no idea what it means.

Has anyone who has taken this class know what was being said?

Advanced Riding School Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9WzYQb-zM4#lq-hq-vhq)

For 90% of the time, I am using 1 or 2 fingers.  I switch to 3 ONLY if I need to REALLY drop anchor!!!  Yes, things do get interesting w/ 3 fingered braking, but once you get used to/anticipate the sensation of the rear getting all light and floaty on you, it's all good.

I use 1 or 2 fingers for normal road riding, but on the track my S2R800 really needs 4 fingers when I'm braking hard into tight turns and need to scrub off lots of speed.  I'll typically go four finger for the stand up hard braking and then trail brake off with only one or two fingers as I'm tipping the bike over and getting on the throttle.  The brakes on the S2R800 are inferior compared to any of the sbks or some other ducati models.  For instance for the same stopping power, I'd only need a finger or two on a 1098 where I need a full fist for the S2R to stop in anywhere near the same distance.

2 fingers for me, kinda hard to blip the throttle with just your thumb...

I use two fingers, and I don't know if I could break the habit even if I tried.  It's been sufficient even for my lame SV650 brakes on the track.

When I took the MSF Experienced Riders Course, the instructor insisted I use four fingers during the emergency stopping drills.  He changed his mind when I did a four-fingered stoppie and put the rear wheel at about his shoulder height and still stopped in fewer feet than the Harley baggers in my class.  He decided two fingers was enough for me.   [thumbsup]

For all the reasons here mentioned (comfort, brake modulation, feel, and ability to blip the throttle), I use two fingers, and have for most of 30 years.

I'm a index finger guy with the front brake.

May go to 2 if I really need to squeeze those calipers.

Still 4 fingers on the clutch.

Dolph        :)

I've been riding for only a year, and I never thought about using less than 4 fingers... I have a 696 and I guess I learned to break with 4 fingers without locking the wheel. What other reasons are there to use 1, 2 or 3 fingers instead of 4?

It's really hard to blip if you have four fingers on the lever  ;D

I guess I'm not blipping when I brake... the blipping would be for downshifting? When I'm emergency braking I don't downshift, I just pull the clutch in. When I'm breaking more normally, I downshift without blipping the throttle. I guess the slipper clutch helps with that.

Am I doing something wrong?

Switched to just the middle and index fingers about a month ago (middle does all the work). Amazing how much better my riding has been over when I was using all four fingers on the lever. Better transitions back onto the throttle, able to brake closer to corners, way more comfortable . . .

P.S. I always heel-toe in the car, but I can't blip and brake smoothly at the same time on the bike. I usually momentarily stop braking to downshift if I'm not in a hurry.

No.  But if you want to blip, you might prefer to brake with two fingers rather than four.