Ducati Monster Forum

I did a search for this topic, so don't hate if it's already been posted  :P

I was wondering if there's a right (and wrong) time to use my high beams. Only at night? Only during the day? All the time?

I really have no idea. My initial thought would be to only use it when it's dark out and I need to see better (like in a car). But unlike driving in a cage, I think "being seen" plays much importance when riding a motorcycle. So I thought maybe having my high beams on more often would help make me more visible?

Thanks.  :)

During the day all the time, at night they work just like a car.

Having them on all the time during the day makes a big difference in being seen without annoying everyone. Night riding just use them when you need them, having them on all the time at night could cause some problems for oncoming drivers.

My high beam stays on all the time. It's better to annoy other drivers a bit rather than not being noticed by one. Not every driver is careless but it takes only one to kill me and my beloved Duc. I'm not sure if it's illegal or not but I never got pulled over or had a complained by other drivers. 
 

My 2¢   

I leave mine on all the time in the city. I'm all for inflicting sensory pain on cagers to stay alive. At the same time I try to be very noticeable, I NEVER count on being seen.
I've switched to a Stebel horn (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/2137/), HID lights (http://www.shopxenon.com/), and Termis and wear red a lot.

At night in certain circumstances where blinding oncoming drivers is going to be bad, I turn off the high beams.

I have a different opinion on this.

Is serves no useful purpose to shine our high beam into the mirrors of cars in front of you.  It only annoys them and doesn't improve your safety in any way.  I feel that you're being a jerk if you do this.

It's easy enough to choose when to use the high beam and when to use the low beam.  If there is nobody in front of me, it's often better to use the high beam to make myself more visible from a distance.  But there is an advantage to being able to flash the high beam at someone who is about to invade my space, and I can't do that if it's already on high beam.  My left index finger is already trained to hit the "flash to pass" switch near the clutch lever to warn people about to invade my space.

When I'm on a twisty road with nobody immediately in front of me, I keep the high beam on in hopes that people coming the other way will see me sooner.  If I get stuck behind someone who does not pull over at the first opportunity to let me by, they might get the annoying high beam, but that's only because I've decided that they deserve it.  I'll approach slower vehicles with the low beam so as not to annoy them and give them a chance to let me pass.  Most drivers in Northern California are actually pretty good at helping traffic to flow smoothly, unlike some other states I've ridden/driven in.

Legally, in California I can run high beam all the time during daylight.  At night I'm required to switch to low beam within 500 feet of an oncoming vehicle or 300 feet of someone going the same way as me in front of me.

Don't be a jerk, switch to low beam when you know it will annoy others.

High beams during the day and low beams at night unless I absolutely can't see and it won't result in an accident from blinding oncoming traffic.

Like many others, I run high beams during the day and low beams at night (unless there is no one else around, in which case WTF am I doing in the twisties at night?). 

When I had stock controls, I'd sometimes run low beams during the day so that I could flash the high beams with the finger trigger as I approached intersections.  I don't have that trigger on my current set-up.  Instead, I often stand up on the pegs or swerve a bit as I approach intersections so that it catches the eyes of drivers who might want to turn left in front of me.

All very good info.  I guess this is a good rule of thumb to follow:

Day time = high beam
Night Time = low beam / high beam if necessary.   [thumbsup]

Any tips or photos on that horn install? Been looking at that to upgrade the stock one.

get funky with it. Theres 2 common spots to install the horn, underneath the from where the top cylinder is, and on the left side of the bike where the evap box used to be.

How are those brands of xenon? may i ask? do you have the phillips ones or the knock of brand? the last ebay kit i bought were make the beast with two backsing TERRIBLE. died on me in less than 8 months and the seller wont return my emails about the "1 year warranty" im thinking about buying local so i can atleast knock on their door.

I'm with Scott here.

Can I ask all you "high beam during daylight" riders to do some experiments for me? While you're out riding, look for other bikes with hibeams on, and see how easily you can make a quick but accurate estimate of their speed.

It might just be my eyes and brain, but find its way harder to work out how fast a bike is approaching when there's some glare from the headlights in my eyes. It's not a problem on bright sunny days, but overcast days or at dawn/dusk it's _really_ noticeable.

I keep my headlight dipped (or off) unless I'm using the hibeams to see long distances on dark roads with no approaching traffic. While I acknowledge hi beams will get you seen from further away, I believe I'm "safer" having the cars at a few hundred yards or less be able to accurately gauge my speed, rather than have them notice me at 1500 yards range instead of 500 - the cars a mile away aren't a danger to me, but the cars a couple of hundred yards away _are_.

Like I said, it might just be the way _my_ eyes/brain work, but I can't base my assumptions on how other peoples heads do this stuff, so I'll maximise my safety based on how I see the world.

(Oh, and Scott's right, running hi beams at night because you figure your safety is more important that obeying the rules and not glaring your lights in _my_ eyes - that makes you a jerk in my book...)

big

I used to have them on all the time during daylight hours too until I got  a Headlight Modulator (http://www.pashnit.com/product/signal_dynamics.html). I use it in traffic and in the twisties (when I am stuck behind a car I turn it off, or they just freak out so quick they just pull right over). It works with high and low beams and you can turn it on/off by flipping the headlight switch twice no matter if you are using it with the high or low beams. I have a Stebel Horn as well as Termis and the Back Off Brake Light Modulator Modulator (http://www.pashnit.com/product/signal_dynamics.html).

All together I think people definitely see and hear me more than before.

My point exactly, my safety is more important than obeying the rule. I rather be known as a jerk in your book than to be in peices after grand ma or grand pa pulled out into the intersection in front of me.

Besides, I dont stay long behind any cagers   [moto]

What bike are you installing it on? Mine is on my 848. It's really easy. Unplug stock horn. Plug in new horn, done.
The mounting was a little more challenging but not that bad. I made a little steal bracket and used the mount from the charcoal box. It sits under the right fan inside the fairing.
I'll take some photos if you want to see the SBK mount.

you should really run a relay with it. its much more powerful with it.

But you're so self centered that you don't realise that "the rule" is there to maximise _everybodies_ safety?

I wonder how you'd feel if a truck driver claimed he didn't see your child/wife/girlfriend run out in front of him 'cause some bike rider had his hi beans on and the glare dazzled him?

Yeah, there's a bunch of ways I can maximise _my_ safety - that doesn't mean I implement them all, because I live in a society and I make compromises - if everybody acts in ways that maximise _their_ safety at the expense of other peoples safety, we're _all_ going to be less safe.

You say:

Do you _really_ mean that? You're prepared to annoy every single other driver/rider you share the road with for some un-quantifiable but probably small improvement to your personal safety, without any regard for anyone elses safety?


Consider this your first complaint. _I_ think anyone, driver or rider, who uses their hibeams at night whilst riding/driving towards me is being a self centered jerk with an over-entitled sense of their personal safety and an irresponsible lack of personal responsibility. When _I_ become Emperor of the Universe, that attitude will be sufficient grounds to revoke driving licences...

big

More powerful? How does that work? I'll have to look into that. I'm not an electrician by any means.

+1 the Termis make a big difference.

I feel plenty safe with the low beam. A flash at an intersection means "go ahead" (or at least someone will think so). Oncoming traffic will attempt to blind you back... incites road rage in anyone who witnesses... pedestrians will throw rocks at you... :P

Maybe a flash or two to check the corner ahead when it's really dark...

I don't care if the people in front of me never see me—it's dangerous to ride like you think they do. I wouldn't want to give myself another reason to think they see me.

I think you're right that it's harder to judge the distance of a bike with a high beam on.  OTOH, a bike with brights much easier to see than one running a single headlight with low beams.  Personally, I'd rather a cage isn't sure how far away I am or how fast I was traveling rather than fail to see me entirely.  There are risks either way.   

And as I said earlier, I've become a lot more proactive in signaling my presence to left-turners rather than relying on my headlight (hi or low) to indicate my presence. 

I run high beam exclusively during the day. at night time, i usually ride with my low beams since i want to be able to flash my highs at people in conjunction with my horn (if im running high beams i cnat flash them).

visibility isnt much of an issue since no one looks for a bike. you could just be some jerk of with an HID conversion in thier honda civic. so its more about attention grabbing via flashing lights and loud horns.

Desmostro, your horn is high amperage draining, the stock wiring cant supply that type of power in an instant, so it might be weak when you first lay on it, or the wiring starts to get hot if you hold onto it. If you wire the relay correctly, the horn will have its own devoted power by the battery which is able to supply the correct amperage.

This is how it wires up....the horn button activeates the relay, relay closes the circuit, power flows from the battery to the horn. the original horn's power is just a switch to turn on the relay.

Ive laid my finger on the horn for about 1:30 minutes once with no ill effect. You should also have a fuse to protect your bike in case you ever do this though. this lady decided to park and chat on a cell phone in mid day traffic in a place that specifically states NO STANDING 4:30-7PM. and ended up clogging traffic by shutting a whole lane down. Call me an asshole for sitting there next to her and laying my horn on her, but she deserved every bit of it. Just like the guys that think they can stop in no parking lane to buy a sandwhich. thats grounds for immediate kick to the door.

edit: for the record, i rode a few months after i went down on my bike and my horn wire was cut ( didnt notice) but i felt NAKED without it. No lights? no problem? no horn. holy shit, its like having your mouth taped shut in a room with a blind person trying to save you.

Do you think the high or low beam makes a difference in visibility in the few hundred yard range?

My thinking is that I don't care if a car sees me from a mile away, at that distance they aren't a threat to me (yet). It's in the couple of hundred yard range when I'd like to give them the best chance of judging accurately "is it safe for me to turn in front of that guy", which means distance and speed estimates are important.


For sure.

big

I think so.  Particularly on bumpy city streets.  I agree that I could give a shit about a mile away and that a coupla hundred yards is the where we need to get noticed.  It's completely anecdotal, but in that range, I notice motos with their brights and pay attention to them far more easily than those with low beams.  It's harder to judge how fast they're approaching, but its also harder for your eyes to scan over than and then forget you just saw them.  Of course, YMMV.

big city riding has said to me many times, Bright lights dont mean jack squat. (if your in the big city bright lights are common) Its your riding technique and horn that saves your ass.  Aka eyes peeled wide open, and looking for threats.

+1 and I don't see how my safety improves when blinding the oncoming traffic and the one driving exactly in front of me!?
If those cagers get irritated and crash near me, then it's most likely me - on two wheels - paying the highest price...
flashing in critical situations - sure
hi beam on empty roads at night - fine
in the traffic - not for me, there I try to stay focused on what's going on around me, rather than playing with switches and buttons.

I'm mostly worried about 20 feet away in heavy city traffic.

Motorcycles going straight through an intersection being hit by cars turning left is, I believe, the most common moto accident there is.
In fact, it's happened to me twice. Both times lying on my back looking up at some person blubbering, "I didn't SEE you!" One even added, "You scared the hell out of me, you bounced right off my windshield!" Imagine his surprise.

If you're going 30MPH through and intersection, it leaves a cager making a left 1/2 a second max to see you or not before they punch it. (44 feet per second)
It's progressively less time the closer you are to the car in front of you. Commonly a moto's place in traffic appears to be a gap when cars drivers don't see a car roof over the other roofs there.  As soon as the car in front has passed, there is that split second you will be seen or not.

This is when I use my brights, horn, lasers, flair guns, grenade launchers... Day time rush hour. Cagers looser their friggin minds at rush hour.
All in all, you can't ever count on being seen. But it can't hurt trying IMH experience. This is also why I'm done with black helmets, and all black leathers.

where can i get a grenade launcher? I would LOVE to have one. Got into another one of those situations today and wish i had a mini gun loaded on the front of my bike to cut them in half.

Ask Duckwrench13   ;)

Pm'ed LOL!

i was riding home last night around 11pm on the highway, mothermake the beast with two backser, i coudlnt see a god damn thing in the fast lane. high beams everymake the beast with two backsing where. Defintely not cool to ride with them on at night in the big city. if theres no one around u then its cool, but when you and the 10,000 other cars around you have it on ,its a make the beast with two backsing dirtbag move.

You know what really gets me? All the "people" driving around with their fog lights on when it ain't the slightest bit foggy. Cause they think it looks cool, I guess? [laugh]

in europe it's illegal to have more than 2 lights on unless there is fog. and if you have wipers on you have to have lights on. lots of rules over here.

That's the law in California now as well.  It should be common sense.

im thinking about retro fitting this on my bike....you know incase it gets reallly dark.

(http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/800px-Xenon_short_arc_1.jpg)

do you think a  15kW HID bulb is bright enough? (BTW thats used to power IMAX Lamps)  [laugh]

I am a very calm driver.  Almost nothing bugs me enough to raise the blood pressure.  I say the following not to criticize, but just so people have some different perspective.

When someone blinds me (not accidentally and a quick dimming) at night either from behind or from in front, it is the closest thing to ever making me want to react and actually do something to that person.

I never will, other than to flash my lights.

But damnit if that doesn't piss me off to taking action where otherwise I would not.

Being seen is one thing.   At night to me using the high beams intentionally with other drivers present is asking to have someone intentionally try to run you off the road, blind you back, throw something, swerve, etc.     Also likely to cause grandma to lane drift quite a bit unintentionally.   

Statler, you talking about keeping your brights on at night (which is douchey).  Or are you including a a quick flash you approach an intersection at night?  I do that, particular if I'm in a heavily traveled or urban area.  It's just too easy to miss the headlight with all of the other lights around.

I'd say that having your highs on all the time is irresponsible, selfish and putting yourself and others in danger.

How is blinding someone else in a vehicle much larger than you make you even incrementally safer?

Road rage is much more probable, having someone keep their brights on you is infuriating. Target fixation is also much more probable.

I'm very sensitive to light so it bothers the piss out of me.

brights on at night.

a quick flick will generate a wave hello and a thumbs up out the window.

This was my initial point to being with. Thank you.  [thumbsup]

Just a note on safty, while I perfectly agree with the principle of blinking lights before moving through an intersection, keep in mind that action can result in miscommunication leading to a car thinking that it's ok to go through the intersection before you.

just a thought.
high beams + deer = BAD wreck. makes them freeze. if you have high beams on and see a deer flick them to low.

If you see a deer, regardless of time of day or headlight setting, slow down as much as possible.  That works way better than hoping that they'll get off the road before you get to them.

Good point. Fortunatly in the desert we only have to worry about rattle snakes and the occasional family to turantula's that moves across the street!

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GzXYfK-lDG4/RxNLnKP-q0I/AAAAAAAAEPo/FNdy4WyM098/s400/giant+spider.jpg)

 :o



LOL - ok, so they aren't quite that big!  [cheeky]

i noticed in cycle world there wa a letter to the editor about this subject... their response was basically during the day not so bad, but at night dangerous.

Ya think laying on the horn would goad them? or same effect as light?

i remember there being a post about deers and headlights and perception. it started of as dogs are predators so they chase to intercept. if you slow down then gun it, it screws them up.

Deers are usually prey to some sort of animal. SO they will do wacky things. With that said, your make the beast with two backsed, just slow down and watch out. [laugh]

regardless of which, I saw a bike with flashing lights. much more noticeable then any high beam. and for the record after reading this post i became self conscious of myself and aware of other high beamers, and i must say. THAT SHIT IS NOT COOL.

+1

Earlier today a motorcycle cop going the other direction waved at me. I remember thinking to myself "he prolly wouldna been so friendly if I had my brights on." I think they like it when you sit all upright like you're [a responsible rider] on a tourer. [laugh]

Suburban deer just jaywalk.  Unpredictable.  Your true rural deer will jump into your path if you speed up, it is a survival technique.  Deer are food.  They see your vehicle as a fast predatory animal.  Even more so if your bright lights are on.  The typical driver slows, sees the deer standing there, thinks the deer is being polite and waiting to cross, then speeds up.  The deer sees this as an attack and jumps in your path, continuing in that direction.  Works great for wolves, not so great for motor vehicles.  Also keep in mind, usually where there is one, more will follow.  Bottom line, do not accelerate until you are past Bambi.

Back to the original thread.  I only use high beams in a no traffic situation or as a warning.

High's on during the day just makes you more visible without drawing negative attention. But at nighttime use them as if you were in a car. Having them on at night will increase your chance for an accident and just pisses people off.