Ducati Monster Forum

OK,now i'm confused.
I am getting CF pipes and the BMC filter for the 696.
The new PC V is out for the bike and there is the Juice box. Which is better? what are the benefits vs cons?
are there other options?

ok did some more reading.

there are several types of ways to work this.
-there are chips that fuel the computer into reading the O2 sensors wrong and give it more fuel
-The juicer plugs into the fuel injectors and gives them the signal to give more fuel. the maps are for two brother pipes only, but there is some adjustment for other pipes
-the PC V has other options that can get complicated:
    The autotune module does the work for ya
    The rev  extend (although don't know if there is the option for Ducatis on this) is what it is
   The ignition module can changing spark up to 10 degrees.
   the quickshifter for clutchless shifting without twisting back on the throttle


SOOOO what are other people using?

ok found another GPR Extreme and Extreme multilevel. they both work like the Juice box, pushes (but also reducing) fuel by pluging into the fuel injection system.

so far, the juice box and the GPR seem the simpliest.

Edit: the part number for the GPR Power Jet Multi is EX.003S.DU12  got an email from them. about the same price as the 2Bro system.

Never knew there was a PCIV let alone a V...

apparently they skipped IV.  maybe cause of the IV sounding too medical?

of course forgot the DP ECU which is by far the most expensive. but comes with the custom but not customizable map BUT does up the RPM limiter.

Raux, I don't think too many 696 owners have some sort of ECU "tuning" except for those with the Termi's. 
I'm a set it and forget it kind of guy so the PCV is going to be my route unless something else hits the market in addition to what is already out. I'll let the Auto Tune do the work for me.  [clap]  I've street tuned a car before and it's a PITA.

PCIV is PCIII-USB.

don't forget this one

http://www.desmotimes.com/product925.htm (http://www.desmotimes.com/product925.htm)

That looks almost exactly like the Juice Box.

yeah they both use load based fuel delivery.  I wonder if 2 bros just buys the powercard and repackages it, or vice versa.. or if it's just a amazing coincidence that they look identical.

Not for the OP but for the rest of us, 2 bros doesn't make a juicebox for other monsters, only 696.  Powercard has several models.

yeah that's the dobeck performance ones. found those but no 696 application. if youread the FAQ. dobeck used to work to dynojet

ok made a few calls.

Dobeck is indeed the manufacturer for the 2 Bros. but the 2 Bros has added some interface features to make adjustment easier.

Still checking on the GPR line.

I think i'm going with the 2 Bros system though.

just ordered the 2 Bros. I don't have the time nor easy access to a dyno to be able to work with the PC.
the GPR doesn't have a great interface like the 2 bros. so decision was made.

Can you even hook this thing up to a PC if you wanted to?

What is load based  tuning?

as far as the pc hook up ,not sure i'm putting a call into two bros tonight.
load based is how much throttle you are inputing as compared to rpm, if i understood that right.

doesnt make sense to me

because if load based is dependent on your throttle as a relation to rpm, then thats the same was the old style (which they say it isnt).

old style = TPS and RPM based, TPS = throttle. (if chewbaca lived on endor....) i couldnt find an actual description of waht load based really means. all it said was, based on load of bike at a given rpm and gear.

but how does it sense how much load there is?

i will see what info i can get and pass it on.

load is fuel pulse width, or duty cycle - i'm not sure how it is actually referenced.  the later dobecks can have fuel addition controlled by a combination of rpm and pulse width that i couldn't understand in the short time i had with the dobeck guy.  that part of it is accessed via a base station sort of deal that you program with a pc or laptop.

Well I just heard back from Dynojet concerning the PCV. There is currently no ETA for it. They are still doing testing and quoted to be at least 2 months out. That seems to be the magic number a few months ago.
It was booboo on their part to release it to the dealers that early.

Looks like we don't have too many choices now.

Raux, did you end up getting the juice box? I need fueling sooner or later.

That sure sounds familiar. A bit like the fiasco with the S2R1000 PCIII that never happened...

I'm leaning towards the Juice Box now. It's "tuned" for their exhaust and the stock filter but I don't think there's a huge difference with other brands. Free flowing for the most part with no catalytic converter...

no a snafu with the distributor here in europe left me in the cold. then money got tight.. no juice box til next year.
it is adjustable up or down, which should help with different exhausts and whether you have the db killers in or not.

I see.. I read the instructions on it tonight. Sounds pretty simple.

1. Adjust fueling during accel..
2. Adjust fueling during WOT
3. Adjust onset of fueling during accel..
4. Adjust onset of fueling during WOT

I think that's all the adjustments available for the Juice Box for the 696.

I'm going to call Two Brothers tomorrow to see what they think about adding a high flow filter to the equation. Bump up fueling by one point (number setting)?

i HAD ordered mine with the BMC filter. and that with the freeflow pipes would work. talked to them. but didnt ask them what i should do for the setting.

Okay, I talked to a Two Bros tech rep today. The Juice Box is pretty simple. In a nutshell, you either add fuel or take away fuel. That simple. The bike is getting it's normal fuel delivery from the factory ECU. The Juice box supplements the "ECU" fuel with more fuel. I guess that makes sense.
He said less than 10% of the people actually adjust the settings. He said most exhaust systems on the market are pretty close to one another with subtle differences so you should be fine with a non-Two Bros exhaust. I'm surprised the rep didn't sell me on a Two Bros slip on for the 696.  [clap]
I also questioned him about adding a high flow air filter like a K&N or BMC. He said those filters flow more (obviously) but it's not going to make a drastic change with the air/fuel mixture...enough to where it's going to throw off what is being delivered by the preset settings of the Juice Box.
Basically he said install it and see how it runs. You can't really "fine" tune the Juice Box anyway. You either go up or down on their scale for fuel (amount and time of delivery).

HTH

Any updates on this? Anyone try the two bro's system and have results to post?

The Juice Box sounds just like the Techlusion Box.  It doesn't take away fuel but lets you add ( not a problem cause Duc's run lean).  So 4 different dials easy initial adjusting (which they recommend for you on their forum). and the leds help dial you in and the rest is just seat of pants performance or take it to a dynomometer.  Works great, bike warms up nice doesn't lug pulls real good minus a flat spot in upper mid range rpm. and it was cheap.

juice box determines load by throttle positon and injector pulse width, vs, throttle position and rpm.
-makes sense that throttle and pulse with are a better indicator of load.- (rpm and throttle position  could be the same under many different load conditions.)

FWIW, I installed one today, BIG differnce in fueling/performance, especially around the 4k flat spot in the stock bike.

it will not install as easily as the instructions suggest--- the injector connectors are almost impossible to access/remove without taking off the airbox/ECU, etc etc..took me 1-2 hours of fiddling and improvising tools to get the connectors off and the new cable and connectors routed thru' the engine/chassis..-   perhaps easier to just remove the airbox and everything else first.

juicebox works great with the map that it comes with, it's cheap, and you CAN tune the fueling if desired- has incremental adjustments for accel. mix, full throttle mix, and the load point that each of those settings is activated.

whats' not to like?
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss325/halcarter/DSCN0004-1.jpg)

I totally agree... The juice box is an excellent add-on for the 696. I have had mine for about 2 weeks now and that 4k rpm area is all smoothed out and the bike feels much smoother ad refined.... I give it a big  [thumbsup] and highly reccommend it for anyone wanting to adjust the fuel input.

mine had no excessive roughness, etc  with the stock exhaust (or the slip-ons.)...but  there's a severe dip in the torque curve around 4k, that's said to be an aspect of USA emission tuning...just correcting that makes a big difference.

aside from that correction, i'd say any effective changes in the intake/exhaust pretty much demand re-tuning,  -seems like the juice box is a simple and effective way to get there.. it works quite well just out of the box,  and is adjustable if you want to custom/ dyno tune it further...

i'm not promoting the thing, there are other in-line devices that alter tuning, but this thread seemed to be full of questions about how and if the juice box  works for 696..

if there's an easier way to remove those fuel injector connectors without picking-out the metal clips while working between the frame tubes..(?) that'd make things easier to install..

Anyone of you running a high flow air filter with the Juice Box?

not me, since the stock air filter is already 'high flow'
-considering that (1) it's the same filetr they use on ducati engines nearly twice the size of a 696.  and
(2) the 696 doesn't rev very high to start with.

 i did Dyno my 696 with the juice box set at the factory settings with slip-ons, ..basically showed it was just a tad rich.
there's more than enough adjustment range to accommodate any air filter change  (which would make it run lean, if anything at all)

Thanks for the info.

I am running the juice box with slipons and a K&N "high flow" air filter... I have the juice box set a little high and its running a tad bit rich... The bike is smoother throughout the powerband, but I get a little bogging on quick acceleration... Still trying to adjust through the butt dyno, but for the most part, it works great.... Adjusting it is as easy as removing the seat, hitting a button, and then putting seat back on...

from my dyno test, i'd say you're more likely too RICH to start with, rather than needing to re-set the box to a richer setting..