Can anyone confirm the proper position of the washers (#18) in relation to the swingarm and engine case? This picture clearly shows a misrepresention of the order of washers to bushings and snaprings. My reason for asking is that upon assembling the washers outside the swingarm (as shown in the pic below) Im noticing a substantial amount of lateral play in the swingarm. I think they need to go in between the case and the swingarm rather than how they are shown in the pic, but Im not sure. Anyone know?
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r166/jmoth79/swingarmPivot.jpg)
Ducati has never been known for getting very precise about shimming swing arms.
From the diagram I'd say #18 is more of a dust/dirt guard and the actual shims are #15.
You can add equal amounts of shims to each side to tighten things up.
I had to do that on my M900.
yea, I know I have all the shims (#15) in the proper place. And I know that the washers (#18) do not go outside the rubber bushings (#2).
I just want to know where the washers (#18) really go.
Quote from: jmoth79 on February 15, 2009, 04:28:17 PM
yea, I know I have all the shims (#15) in the proper place. And I know that the washers (#18) do not go outside the rubber bushings (#2).
I just want to know where the washers (#18) really go.
Where were they when you took it apart?
good question, I dont remember :(
Quote from: jmoth79 on February 15, 2009, 06:56:13 PM
good question, I dont remember :(
I checked 4 different pdf versions of parts manuals from Ducati.
They all show the same illustration you posted. I don't think Ducati would use the same wrong illustration from '04 to '08, but I could be wrong. I honestly think they go on the outside and your swingarm simply needs more shims to eliminate some of the play.
Maybe someone with an S*R will pull theirs apart for you.
Good luck
Have you torqued everything down to the required spec? There would be play if not torqued yet. Also, if you do add shims make sure not to make the pivot too tight! This is a critical function of your rear suspension, and excessive friction or binding would not be desirable.
understood, and I will take into consideration. Thanks!
My '05 S4R did/does not have a washer/spacer in the position shown in the illustration.
Get a selection of swingarm shims, you're going to go thru this everytime you disassemble it (normal wear) and getting that spacing right is critical for proper handling.
Quote from: pompetta on February 16, 2009, 04:52:41 AM
My '05 S4R did/does not have a washer/spacer in the position shown in the illustration.
+1
What do you expect for only paying 12-15K for a motorcycle, the mfg to actually get the servicec manual and parts breakdown diagrams correct? [laugh] [laugh] One area that ducati is so far lacking it's almost cause to find another mark to oogle over. [bang]
Quote from: TAftonomos on February 16, 2009, 10:36:24 AM
What do you expect for only paying 12-15K for a motorcycle, the mfg to actually get the servicec manual and parts breakdown diagrams correct? [laugh] [laugh] One area that ducati is so far lacking it's almost cause to find another mark to oogle over. [bang]
The more I work on my Monster, the more errors I find in the service manual.
Some are minor (arrows pointing to the incorrect part), others not so minor (stating that it is necessary to remove the clutch prior to removing the flywheel).
However, these problems are not Ducati-specific. My Bandit service manual has many errors. The most amusing one is the complete lack of information concerning the starter clutch. The manual shows a picture of the starter clutch, and says to inspect it, but doesn't say where it is, or what any of the torque specs are! [laugh]
Quote from: jmoth79 on February 15, 2009, 04:28:17 PM
I just want to know where the washers (#18) really go.
anybody?
Quote from: jmoth79 on February 16, 2009, 12:17:15 PM
anybody?
I guess I
was wrong. ;D
Since no one seems to know....
maybe we can figure it out.
Do they measure the thickness of any of the shims listed in the parts file? Are they the same od as the shims you already installed? Do they equal in thickness to the amount of extra lateral play in the swingarm?
Quote from: jmoth79 on February 16, 2009, 12:17:15 PM
anybody?
I can also add that my bike had more than one shim (on the right side I believe) where your illustration shows one (#18) per side.
If someone could just remove their footpeg bracket and see if the is a washer behind it, I would be greatly appreciative.
thanks
I'm headed home in about one hour. I'll look then and report back.
According to Ducati maximum play is .1 mm. The shims coma in 10 and 20 mm. sizes. There should be one or less shims on each side. If you want to be anal I suppose you could start sanding shims. Ducati obviously thinks this is a close enough tolerance. If a thicker shim is needed on one side they recommend putting the thicker shim on the right side
There are no washers on either side of my rearsets. The only spacers I remember (when I had my swingarm off for powdercoating) were between the swingarm and the engine case.
Quote from: pompetta on February 16, 2009, 02:46:57 PM
There are no washers on either side of my rearsets. The only spacers I remember (when I had my swingarm off for powdercoating) were between the swingarm and the engine case.
None where I looked either. Perhaps they are using more than one bushing set up.
THis is good. I think I have the info I need now.
It supports what I originally thought, that both the shims (#15) and washers (#18) fit between the crankcase and swingarm.
I too recently had my swingarm powdercoated and wish I had not taken for granted the manual would be correct.
Next time I'll pay closer attention on disassembly.
There really isn't a correct answer to your question, shimming is an art (a simple one), not a science.
Duc factory manuals?? - I gave mine away years ago.
Quote from: Norm on February 17, 2009, 05:23:10 AM
There really isn't a correct answer to your question, shimming is an art (a simple one), not a science.
Duc factory manuals?? - I gave mine away years ago.
While I will never give mine away, I think that the service manual -- like any other book -- should be used as a guide, not as an absolute. :)
Quote from: jmoth79 on February 16, 2009, 07:33:59 PM
THis is good. I think I have the info I need now.
...or so I thought. I tried but there is definitely not enough lateral space to fit both washers and the 3 shims in the spaces between the crank case and the swingarm. I'm now starting to think that the gap decreases once the rearsets are torqued down. (?) (i know this was mentioned earlier)
But I'm still at a loss as to where the washers go. (?)
Rather than reading the Ducati Service manual... I've found Calvin and Hobbs is rarely wrong!
Read above, there's at least one post stating that there needn't be the same number of shims on either side, but that if an inordinate number of shims need exist, the larger number should be on the right side. If there are thicker shims available, mayhap you should set it up as noted in your pdf, and simply add a shim to the right. Then torque to spec, and test lateral play.
Quote from: jmoth79 on February 17, 2009, 06:14:41 PM
...or so I thought. I tried but there is definitely not enough lateral space to fit both washers and the 3 shims in the spaces between the crank case and the swingarm. I'm now starting to think that the gap decreases once the rearsets are torqued down. (?) (i know this was mentioned earlier)
But I'm still at a loss as to where the washers go. (?)
Just the shims go on the swing arm. The washers go under the bolts that hold your foot peg bracket on, just like in your diagram.