Ducati Monster Forum

                                                                                   
                                                                                   EDIT:  added pix   ;D


A few people have asked how I like the new Guzzi so in my typically economical use of the English language, I’ve summed it up in a 60,000 word Comparo of sorts; "999 versus V11: Clash of the Italian Twins"  ;D  So pull up a beer and open a chair; we’re takin’ the scenic route…



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2004 Ducati 999, 2002 air-cooled Moto Guzzi V11 Le Mans

After logging 400 miles on the Guzzi V11, I thought I'd share some random observations.  First, let's lay some groundwork: both bikes have 90 degree V-twins with roughly the same displacement – 999cc vs. 1064cc; both have dry, multi-plate clutches; both have their own distinctive sound; and both are monumentally sexy.

Now to the differences:  Where the 999 has four valves per cylinder opened and closed by trick Desmo technology; the Guzzi gets by with push-rod actuated valves, two valves per cylinder.  The benefit of push-rods are that they're "tried-and-true" technology (although most experts prefer the term “ancient” since this technology is believed to have been employed in the siege machines of Troy).  Another factor in their favor is they’re cheap and easy to maintain.   

With regard to power delivery, the Ducati has useable torque over most of the rev range.  But the Guzzi motor doesn't even start developing torque until you're at 6 grand.  Yellow line is at 7,000 rpm and the engine redlines at 8 (and whaddaya know, it's got a yellow mark and red mark indicating all that ON THE TACH!)  Horsepower at lower engine speeds is rather anemic compared to the Duc – the Guzzi being merely adequate for around-town cruising.  But if you've got some open road and rev the snot out of it, the V11 will rip your arms off in a fearsome explosion of mechanical glee. 

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Guzzi Tach

And, unlike every other V-twin motorcycle in the known universe, the V11 has its V-twin mounted transversely  inside the bike’s frame - trademark Guzzi stuff.  By doing it this way, the crankshaft goes straight out the back of the engine case at the base of the “V”, through a gearbox lump, then sprouts a drive shaft that's on to driving one really big, enclosed gear contraption in the hub of the rear wheel.  That the spinning driveshaft itself has two really cool and menacing exposed u-joints like you'd see on a dump truck is an added bonus that Moto Guzzi gives you absolutely free.

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Air-cooled V-Twin, right side barrel. Note round,                     Aft drive shaft u-joint inside and to the right of the rear wheel
dry clutch cover, front of motor.

All of that then brings us to chain driven Ducatis vs. the shaft drive Guzzis.  The theory of shaft drive, as I vaguely understand it, is to provide the owner with less maintenance, better durability and parts longevity.  The shaft drive system is mostly enclosed (except as noted above), thereby not affected by external factors like moisture, mud, and other miscellaneous forms of road contaminants.  The big negative to shaft drive is that under hard acceleration, the rear wheel feels like it wants to launch itself to the right before it gets back down to the actual business of propelling everything in the expected forward  direction.  From a riders point of view, this momentary "WTF?!?" as you note all the objects perpendicular to your intended path - like light poles - is a very unusual feeling that has taken some adjustment. 

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Shaft drive hub

The next major difference between the two is shift action.  Ducatis in general are very easy to shift smoothly; blasting through the gears on the 999 is stunningly quick - kind of a fire-and-forget operation that uses very little brainpower.  With the Guzzi, though, you've got to really work to make smooth shifts. There’s this kind of, “one one-thousand, two one-thousand” time-frame required to get things meshing properly.  And that's just on the UPSHIFTS!  Downshifts are voodoo science.  To me I guess it just feels like the flywheel and all the reciprocating parts inside the motor must be made from ground up battleships.   And you ain't stoppin' that kind of mass in milli-seconds just for the trivialities of changing gears.   

So! desmo motors vs. push-rod relics, chain vs. shafts… all that’s left now is handling.  While the Duc has the Guzzi's drivetrain beat, the V11, believe it or not, wins in the handling department on a day to day basis.   The Guzzi weighs about 520 pounds, which is... probably a lot more than the 999.  But with the V11, all the weight is carried down low so it’s very easy to maneuver at slow speeds and absolutely kicks ass in high speed direction changes (like S-bends); the big brute is positively flickable  :o  And it all gets done with off-the-shelf components; Marzocchi fully adjustable front forks and a horizontally mounted, fully adjustable White Power rear shock.

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Horizontally-mounted rear shock and remote

In the end, both Italian twins are very high-strung thoroughbreds. The harder you push, the better they get.  Both the 999 and V11 have provided me with miles of smiles and a ridiculous amount of fun.  The way each bike gets you there though is the difference between night and day... Classical and Bluegrass; Post-Modern and Baroque; the difference between a scalpel and friggin' battle axe   [evil]
 
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Nice writeup. Where's them pics??!

ahhh...i see, one of those bikes.

we need some "head-to-head" shots of the 999 standing toe-to-toe against the V11...  get artistic with it...

Awesome write up! Felt like I was on both bikes during the read. You have a future as a writer with Cycle World, Sport Rider, Motorcyclist, etc... Hell, your comparo was much better than most of theirs!! Can't wait to chase the V11's tail light on a Muenster run to get a Rueben sandwich and beer at Doc's!! Sounds like a fist fight between Italian sisters!! [thumbsup] [drink] [moto]

Very cool, Cher... The Guzzi is definitely worthy of you [bow_down]

Can't wait for my test ride on the V11 ;D

Well, as luck would have it, I'm riding around this morning enjoying the scenery; I can cruise over to the Warehome before Jack's Grill if you'll be around? 

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so who's going?  I'm thinking I might try to go but it's way to nice not to ride considering the rest of the weekend will have wind blasts up to 45 mph.

damn... I'm late to a client's already, looks like I'll have to haul @$$ to get to Jack's by 12:30.

AMS & ride after?!? Pleeeeeze?!?!?!? ;D

stop whining & be there [thumbsup]

I don't know if I'm worthy of seeing you twice in as many days.  [bow_down]

Yeah, I know  [laugh]  Workin' on it  ;D

Watching the long way down dvd, it has Ewan and Charlie's tour of the Guzzi factory, complete with a run on their 'test track'.

Looking forward to seeing it!

great write-up!
you should submit it to the moto-rags for sure.
"don't let your meat loaf"
as they say.
Steve

Congrats on the Guzzi!  I'm a little bit slow on catching up on all the happenings on the local board. 

Good write up!

Thanks for the props, guys.  I've added some pictures to the original post   :D

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Cool pics Lisa and nice job on the formatting!  [thumbsup]

You know, when I saw "(really LONG!) in the subject line I thought, "Oh no, well at least there are some pix now; I'll finally check it out.  And I began reading thinking that my usual short SHORT attention span for long posts would kick in about ::03 after.  Next thing I know there's no more to read and I'm thinkin' "Hey!  I want more.  Great stuff to be sure, but I. Want. More.

Great write up.  You should take seriously those responses enjoining you to submit for publication; both this and other stuff written (or to be written).  It really does read much better than most EVERYTHING in the Moto Mags.

Thanks.

 [moto] Great photos & write up !  [moto]  Love that gunmetal grey ! Even better in person & very classy !  [thumbsup]

You'll get synching shift speeds etc soon enough - 1st mod needs to be one of those kickstand enlargeyfiers  [laugh]   [bow_down] you were wise not to trust the gravel at Jack's  [bow_down] - not ALL moto wisdom relates to going fast !  [cheeky]

Trust me--you don't want to get anywhere near that....  :P

Congrat's Lisa on the bike. It sounds like one sweet ride.  [thumbsup] [moto] [beer]

+1  [thumbsup]

Excellent writeup and very, very sexy bikes!!! [thumbsup]

What everyone else said!

Sexy bike you got there.