I have a 2007 S4R T. I found a good deal on a full Arrow CF system. Both the Arrow rep and the head service guy at the shop I use recomend Dyno Jet Power Commander. Well I've found a pretty good deal on that as well. (1200.00 & 260.00).
I don't know anything about power commanders. How do they work? What exactly do they do? Street vs. Race? Does it replace your ecu?
What do you guys think of this setup?
Will work well from what I know as well.
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Quote from: Clickjack on February 27, 2009, 11:47:14 AM
I have a 2007 S4R T. I found a good deal on a full Arrow CF system. Both the Arrow rep and the head service guy at the shop I use recomend Dyno Jet Power Commander. Well I've found a pretty good deal on that as well. (1200.00 & 260.00).
I don't know anything about power commanders. How do they work? What exactly do they do? Street vs. Race? Does it replace your ecu?
What do you guys think of this setup?
How do you plan on getting around the O2 sensor ???
IMHO you should save your pennies & look for a used or new Termi setup if you like those pipes best & then either reflash your ECU or get the complete Termi setup. It's a waste of money to install a PC on a stock ECU with the O2 sensor...... your part throttle & low RPM are will be same as stock.
You won't believe how nice your bike will feel when it's running open loop & setup properly...... words don't do it justice.
Reflash is a good idea no matter what, and done right will eliminate the O2 as well. No matter what exhaust exhaust.
+1^
To answer your questions more directly, the Power Commander is an electronic bandaid that piggybacks your existing ECU and tells it to run a different fuel injection map to match the exhaust system upgrade you're installing. It works, in theory, but the best results are found on a dyno with a very detailed custom mapping throughout the rpm range, which can get very expensive. This is where the plug-and-play nature of the Termignoni system from Ducati Performance with their dedicated ECU turns out to be a better deal. Not only will it run absolutely awesome, but you won't have the headache or concern that your bike isn't fueling perfectly throughout its range. The other concern, correctly raised earlier, is that the closed-loop systems with the oxygen sensor don't seem to take well to the Power Commander and try to revert to their existing map because the sensor's information is freaking out the ECU when suddenly the bike is richer than the parameters outlined by the factory engineers. Pretty funny how smart these little electronic buggers are. In short, the deal on the Arrows and Power Commander could well be only an illusion once the costs of setup and tuning are factored in.
absolutely awesome significantly better
granted that DP Ecu is designed for the DP Termis not for the arrows. so really, youd still want to get a power commander. however, with the O2 eliminated at this point, you can use an older PCIII.
if you do go with monstermash's route, he offers a you a 2nd tune for free provided you give him a dyno of your current setup.
i thought it was pretty certain the PC intercepts the O2 signal before it gets to the computer.
wait, which Power commander we talking about?
Quote from: Raux on March 02, 2009, 10:50:01 AM
i thought it was pretty certain the PC intercepts the O2 signal before it gets to the computer.
AFAIK it does not intercept the O2 signal. That is the job of the much less expensive O2 trim pots. What the PCIII does is get between the ECU and the injector. The ECU looks at a bunch of variables (In the case of the standard ECU one of the variables is the fuel air ratio from the O2 sensor) it then uses these variables to determine a duration to leave the fuel injector on. It looks up the "on" duration in a map. The map is just a spreadsheet usually with RPM on one axis and a combination of values on the other axis.
What the PC does is intercept the signal from the ECU to the injector. The injector says "leave injector on for X milliseconds", the PC sees this, looks up that value in its own map and changes the value to X = + or - Y depending on how the tuner set it up.
The problem with closed loop (i.e. using the O2 sensor) is that now the stock ECU sees the mixture change and tries to correct sending a new duration to the injector.
Of course there are a lot of caveats to this but I haven't had the opportunity to connect a logic analyzer to a Ducati ECU while the bike was on a dyno.
1. There is probably a lower limit that the ECU will go on injector pulse width before it decides the O2 sensor is broke (in fact some suggest it goes to a default map)
2. At higher rpm and throttle openings (TPS) the stock ECU probably ignores the O2 sensor all together.
Just an aside (from a guy who has been in microprocessor based process control). With better (faster and more accurate) O2 sensors the Ducati could run much better. Even better that the DP ECU that simply dumps a lot more fuel into the cylinders.
What would really be great is if someone from the PC development staff would describe how the thing works and get a sticky entry on the forum