Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: hyphen on March 02, 2009, 09:29:27 AM

Title: Rear brake issue
Post by: hyphen on March 02, 2009, 09:29:27 AM
So, my rear brake has zero power.  It's squishy all the way through but provides no grip.  Even at a stop with the rear brake lever pressed in my bike will roll.  I thought it might be air in the line so I bled the rear (and the front and clutch while I was at it.)  I pulled tons of air from the front and the clutch line and replaced it with hi-temp fluid and saw great results.  My clutch is much more responsive and my front brake feels much stronger.  Unfortunately, the rear brake is still not functioning.

There are no leaks on the caliper, line, cylinder or anywhere else.  Everything looks fine physically.  Are there any other common things I should try before taking it to my tech friend?
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on March 02, 2009, 09:36:30 AM
Due to the upside down setup, to properly bleed the rear brake, you need to remove the caliper.

I would be careful if adjusting the rear brake-if done incorrectly, you can block of the fluid return hole in the master cylinder. This leads to nothing pleasant.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: hyphen on March 02, 2009, 09:50:09 AM
Could air in the line totally prevent braking though?  Are there any other common problems that could be an issue?
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Popeye the Sailor on March 02, 2009, 09:56:38 AM
Quote from: hyphen on March 02, 2009, 09:50:09 AM
Could air in the line totally prevent braking though?  Are there any other common problems that could be an issue?

I'd lay Nate's paycheck that it's your best bet. It's a common problem.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Porsche Monkey on March 02, 2009, 10:10:57 AM
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 02, 2009, 09:56:38 AM
I'd lay Nate's paycheck that it's your best bet. It's a common problem.

If your gonna place a bet, why not make it with something more substantial. [evil]
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Speeddog on March 02, 2009, 10:32:11 AM
Some of the black master cylinders go bad fairly quickly.
Seems to be most common on 695's and S2R800's.

Try a bleed session first.
Remove the caliper and swing it around up to the top of the disc.
You *may* need to remove the caliper bracket to get the hose out from behind it.
That big snapring is a bear.

If that doesn't do it...
The orientation of the master tends to trap bubbles, so:
Take the caliper off of the disc.
Pump the pedal until the pads almost touch.
Dismount the master.
While holding the master higher at the rear, pry between the pads to force the pistons back in, so that any bubbles get pushed back out the hose to the reservoir.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: EEL on March 02, 2009, 11:47:21 AM
+1 w/ everything speed dog said..

Personal experience: Over about 6 months, I noticed my rear master cylinder slowly losing brake pressure. I bled it and it gained a little braking power and very rapidly failed once again.

I have an S2R 800. If you follow Speeddog's recommendations and you subsequently lose all braking in your lines, its time for a new master cylinder

I got mine from YoyodyneTI.com. They generally have them resonably priced and in stock. If you have any questions about which to select, they are very knowledgable and friendly.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: J.P. on March 03, 2009, 02:24:42 PM
On my s2r1k, I gotta bleed the rear about every 5 months or 1000 miles for me.
Wonder if a new master will fix it?
Gotten pretty good at it however, and the fluid is always fresh... besides, I thought rear brakes were only ornamental on these things.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: The Architect on March 03, 2009, 03:09:39 PM
Quote from: J.P. on March 03, 2009, 02:24:42 PM
... besides, I thought rear brakes were only ornamental on these things.

I feel the same way!  Ornamental at best and mine works fine. 
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: needtorque on March 03, 2009, 03:39:26 PM
I have a McGyver solution that I have used for the rear brake as it can be a PITA to bleed. 

Take a squirt bottle of anything (I used a windex bottle) then pull out the top so you have just the squirter mechanism and the clear tube that runs into the bottle.  Get a very small diameter rubber vacuum line and put one end on the tube end of the squirt mechanism and the other end on the bleeder screw.  Take the cap of the fluid reservoir and loosen the bleeder valve.  Squirt away until you get solid fluid from the each pull.  Make sure the reservoir never runs out of fluid.  This worked excellent for me all three times I have done it.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: J.P. on March 04, 2009, 05:51:15 AM
Do you have an underslung brake? Spent lots of time w/ my miti-vac, special bleeder valve, endless pumping. Only thing that works on my s2r1k is to take the caliper and flip it. (meaning removal of exhaust, wheel, caliper)
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: gambit688 on March 05, 2009, 02:56:13 PM
It's fairly common, had mine fixed on the 800 last year and it is back again (actually first noticed it at the end of last season)
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: somegirl on March 08, 2009, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: J.P. on March 03, 2009, 02:24:42 PM
besides, I thought rear brakes were only ornamental on these things.

Useful for:
- uphill starts
- riding with a passenger
- stopping in gravel/dirt

When I had rear brake issues I was very cautious about where in San Francisco I would ride, didn't want to get trapped on a steep hill.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Smokescreen on March 08, 2009, 09:28:11 PM
When I want to slow the rear tyre, I just slam my boot on it like I used to do with my bmx bike!!  I keep wearing out these DC shoes though. 
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: yoreese on March 19, 2009, 07:57:58 AM
Not to thread jack but, I just replaced my rear pads on my M750 with Galfers.  Do you need to use locktite?  I did torque to correct spec.  Thanks, Maurice.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Howie on March 19, 2009, 01:13:33 PM
Quote from: yoreese on March 19, 2009, 07:57:58 AM
Not to thread jack but, I just replaced my rear pads on my M750 with Galfers.  Do you need to use locktite?  I did torque to correct spec.  Thanks, Maurice.

Grease, not Loctite.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: yoreese on March 19, 2009, 04:20:58 PM
I greased the pad retaining pin, didn't know if the caliper retaining bolts needed locktite to keep them from coming loose?
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: J.P. on March 20, 2009, 12:34:55 PM
Calls for grease.
But I lost one on my last ride! Luckily the rear wasn't working at the time, noticed it when I went to bleed. Prob gonna safety wire them together like I did to the last bikes.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: RBX QB on March 20, 2009, 01:10:55 PM
So, the S2R800 is notorious for sub-par rear brakes? Dealer replaced my rear pads at 12k, and they haven't worked since. Thought it was oil on the pads for a while.

Has anybody had better luck with aftermarket hardware in the back? I really miss not having a real brake back there. I too live in a somewhat hilly city.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Speeddog on March 20, 2009, 01:42:13 PM
They can work well.

The layout of the master, hose and caliper is prone to trapping air.

Aftermarket pads can improve the braking.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Howie on March 20, 2009, 10:09:41 PM
Quote from: RBX QB on March 20, 2009, 01:10:55 PM
So, the S2R800 is notorious for sub-par rear brakes? Dealer replaced my rear pads at 12k, and they haven't worked since. Thought it was oil on the pads for a while.

Has anybody had better luck with aftermarket hardware in the back? I really miss not having a real brake back there. I too live in a somewhat hilly city.


Probably a little late now, but you should have went back to the dealer if the brake was functioning until they worked on it.  You might try going back anyway.  If you give us the symptoms we could probably help. 
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: RBX QB on March 21, 2009, 05:36:42 PM
At this point, I have a complete lack of trust in the dealer who did the work, on a couple different issues. I'll try the bleeding method outlined here and see if that takes care of it... when its raining, that is.
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: Duck-Stew on March 21, 2009, 05:52:09 PM
+1 to everything SpeedDog posted.  He beat me to it....again.  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Rear brake issue
Post by: CairnsDuc on March 21, 2009, 06:20:50 PM
My S2R 800 is 15 months old and I hated the rear brakes from day one, I changed the rear pads to Ferodo Platinum's and they are much better. Still not very impressive though.