Ducati Monster Forum

It's finally nice enough to get out and ride... and of course on the very first day I get out, I screw up the bike.

I hit a MASSIVE pothole, and I'll take most of the responsibility for it because I was riding too fast to avoid it.  [bang]

I bent the front rim. It's not terrible, but noticeably bent. I really hope I don't need to replace it. It looks like it might be able to be bent back into place, but I'm not sure. Here's a pic... any thoughts?

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m185/janus019/rim001.jpg)

The back rim seems ok, but the tire is completely flat. Will it need to be replaced or can it just be patched up? Is it possible that the back rim is messed up even though I can't see any damage?

Another thing I noticed is that when the bike is on its stand, it isn't leaning to the left the way it used to. It's pretty much staying upright. I'm hoping this is just because the back tire is flat, but could it be because something is out of alignment? Here's what I'm talking about...

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m185/janus019/rim003.jpg)

I won't be able to ride the bike to the shop to get fixed, so it's gonna need to get towed. I fear that this whole ordeal will really cost me.  :'(

Front "looks" fixable.  Back may have just broken off the bead due to impact or may have put a hole in the tire you cannot see.  The lean angle is likely due to the flat.

do you remember where when? apparently some cities can be held responsible for the damage. who knows maybe you can get the 5-spokes out of the deal.

This sucks. I had the exact same thing happen with my front.  I pulled it off and took it here:
http://www.wheeltechniques.com/ (http://www.wheeltechniques.com/)

Seriously, your front picture isn't as bad as mine.  I think the whole repair cost me less than $200.  Not bad when the cost of a replacement rim is around $1200.  I was really iffy about taking my rim somewhere to get worked on but when I walked in the had a Lotus in there with work being done for him and I figured it was ok.  

These guys did a great job.  I lost the Marchesni sticker buy i'm really confident on the bike and with the work.

I don't have any pics of my damage online, but PM me if you want to see it.

I'm not sure what the forum policy is, but I did a post over at Ducati.ms when it happened (I found them before this board):
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=49531 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=49531)

If that link  needs to be pulled, let me know.

I'm really hoping the front rim can just be bent back into place, but I have no idea.

I'm also concerned about the back rim and tire. Since the tire is nearly completely flat, it will most likely have to be replaced, right? And I don't know if there is damage to the rear rim, that might need to be replaced too.

Try airing up the rear.  You probably just lost the bead on impact.

Same exact thing happened to me. That wheel is perfectly fixable. Cost me 130 including tire unmount/remount + balancing. The job came out flawless. The guy I took it to does awesome work. He said though, "dont bend it in the exact same location, and youre fine"

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=19234.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=19234.0) *scroll down for pics

I hit the same pothole with my honda hawkgt and nothing happened. Guess marchesinis are pretty fragile.

Is the bead that little cap that screws onto the nozzle used for airing up the tire? If so, then it's still there. I just checked the back tire (which is completely flat now), and that little cap was still screwed on securely.

Also, since that back tire is so flat, it's not like I can ride it somewhere to get filled up. I guess I could push it to the local gas station which is about a half mile away?

I'll just repeat what others have said. . .   ;D

You can probably get your front straightened.  There are many places that will do it.  If you can't find anyone local that you trust or want to ship it to Northern California, there is a great local guy who will do it.  PM if you want details.  If the store tells you it's $300 to fix it, better to ship it elsewhere.  then again, the shore is probably going to charge you $100 just to take it off. [roll]  Be aware that if the damage is too bad or if there are other structural problems, straightening *may* not work.  But it doesn't look that bad based on the pics online.  If you need to replace the front, don't let them talk you into paying OEM for a new one.  You can get one on eBay for a billion times cheaper.  Even if you don'e like the color, you can have both wheels painted to whatever color you like and still save a million $ from OEM prices.

The rear rim and tire are likely ok.  Like silentbob said, you may have knocked the bead of the tire off the rim.  You'll need a high power aircompressor to reset the bead.  The shop should be able to do this pretty easily.  The bead is not the stem you're talking about. The edge of the tire fits onto the lip of the rim.  On the edge of the tire, there is what's called a bead that is pressed against the rim to seal in the air.  When you put a tire on a rim, you need to fill the tire quickly with a lot of air to "seat" the bead.  Seating the bead will result in the tire making a popping sound, once on each side.  Once the tire makes the popping sound, the bead is seated, which seals the tire onto the rim.  Then you can fill it with air without the air leaking out.   

Re the pothole, if you want, you can file a claim with your city or the city you were in when you hit the pothole.  They may throw some money your way.  A claim is a predecessor to a lawsuit.  (Wait, are you in CA?  I thought you were for some reason, but I don't remember now.  If not, procedure will vary by state).  There's generally a simple form to fill out and you don't need a lawyer.  OTOH, that's other people's tax dollars to pay for something you said you'd take *most* of the responsibility for.   

The bead is not the valve stem cap.  the bead is a thicker bit of rubber that seats into the rim.  If you hit a bump hard enough (pothole) the bead gets dislodged dumping the air out of the tyre.  You can reseat the bead by pumping up the tyre.  You might save money on a tow by buying yourself some stands and pulling the wheels yourself.  Then rather than blowing your wad on a tow service, you'll be blowing it on wheelstands you can reuse!

Buying stands is a really good idea.  That said, based on your picture of where you keep your bike, I'm not sure your building will allow your bike to sit in it's parking spot without wheels.  [thumbsup]  Do you have any tools to take off the front and rear wheels?

nyc will cover the cost if you file this form out. maybe your city/state does the same, though im glad you didnt crash, looks like a huge pot hole you hit there.

That sucks man. I hope they can get it fixed. Stock replacement parts of Ducs are pretty damn expensive. If it needs replacement, it's probably going to cost at least a grand. But hey, all the more reason to upgrade to the DP 5 spokes if it's not repairable.

Umm, he doesn't know what a tire bead is. Maybe he shouldn't be screwing around with tools?

Is this something I can do myself at a gas station with their compressed air? Do I need to "seat" the bead first before I try to re-fill the tire? Or can I simply take the bike to a gas station and try to put some air in tire? I'm still so new to this, and don't wanna risk further damage by doing something that I shouldn't have.


I'm in Chicago. and I am a lawyer  [evil]
I'll look into filing a claim, but I doubt it will get me anywhere

you have a ducati. pull out your owners card and call the number.

Borrow a small air compressor or high quality bike pump( most road racing bicycles have tire pressures over 100psi) and try pumping up the tire.  Find a friend that is a cyclist or knows one.  It will take about 150 pumps on a quality bike pump to seat the bead.  Don't ask how I know  [roll]   Investing in stands is an excellent idea.  You want the tire off the ground when you seat the bead otherwise the weight of the bike may prevent this and could cause the bike to topple if its on the side stand when the bead "pops"

Good luck!.....let us know how it turns out

Seating the bead and filling the tire are largely the same.  To seat the bead, you fill the tire with air (a lot of air and fill it quickly--which is why you often need a compressor).  It'll pop, once on each side if the bead seats  (you may not hear the pops, but they can also be very, very loud).  Once the bead is seated, the tire will hold air and will fit properly on the rim.  Then you let out the air cuz it's probably hugely overinflated.  Then fill the tire with air to appropriate PSI.  I assume the air compressor at the gas station is strong enough.  If the bead is not seating, the tire may not fill properly and may leak.  Or it may look like it's not sitting properly on the rim.  If you have the wheel off hte bike, you can bounce the tire on the ground while you're filling it with air and/or press down on it with your hand.  This often distorts the rubber a bit and will increase the pressure, which will help the bead seat.  Re BastardHK's post, I've never heard of it working with a bike pump.   ??? 

 
Most states have the state equivalent of the Federal Tort Claims act where they waive their soveign immunity to allow torts against them.  But they also put into place claim procedures that you have to exhaust before filing a suit.  The claim procedures generally have a much shorter statute of limitations and the scope of your later lawsuit is limited by the scope of your claim.  Some entities deny claims as a matter of course.  Others will settle smaller claims because it's not worth it to fight them.  The claims are generally administered by a claims adjuster, much like with an insurance company.  As you'd expect (squeaky wheel and all that), if you get on the adjuster's case and ride them hard, you're more likely to get some $ from them.  Similarly, if you treat your claim as you would a settlement demand package-- with all the accompanying documentation, witness statements, photographs, etc.--you're more likely to get some money.


Taking off a front and rear wheel?  Sure he should (if he wants).  That's how he'll learn.  It's not brain surgery.  It's a coupla bolts.  And we're here to explain it if he needs.  Or he can take it to the dealer. 

What's up with potholes in Chicago this year? They're the worse I've seen them in years. Are you in the City?

Once a tire has been seated for a while it is much easier to re-seat it if the bead breaks.  It has already been held in that form for long enough that it really wants to return to that shape.  In theory it COULD be done with a bike pump but that would have to be one hell of a nice pump.

there is a trick involving a tie down strap, or a good piece of rope, for re seating a bead........not sure it would work for a bike tire though

basically, you wrap the strap around the circumference of the tire, and then compress the rubber in the middle of the tire with the strap. this forces the edge of the tire closer to where it needs to be for it to seat properly. now when you hit it with compressed air............POP! and done...

works for ATV tires anyway.....

I've done it with motorcycle tires.  It works like a charm.  I've only found one set of wheels (custom welded wheels) where I needed to do it though.  Otherwise, it's always just been inflate the tire and, if necessary, bounce and push with a hand.

Yea, I live in Lincoln Park. The pothole was on Chicago ave and Franklin.

I think I would bring something up with the city about the potholes.   I was in chicago in October and I was shocked about how bad the potholes were.  I thought we had bad ones here in Atlanta.  In Chicago I saw plenty of nasty ones... dangerous for everyone, more dangerous for bikes.

Hope you can get it fixed without ant major expense.

that rope thing is smart!

ehres a another way that can easily get very dumb

Seal A Tire Bead with Starting Fluid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZhszvMjvjg#lq2-hq-vhq)

I ride past the pothole I hit every day.  Every day I look at how nasty it is - about an 18-22" gap between the fast lane and #2 lane where the pavement is different on each side and just after a little bridge.  There is an equally nasty pothole just before the little bridge.  It sucks.  Its fixable.  Tinker.  Find a good local guy.  I found mine talking to a manager at a local Wheel Works.  Ask who they recommend to repair rims instead of replacing them - then give him a nice little tip to make it worth his while.  :) 

I would have both wheels checked - whether you can seat the bead or not.  There may be structural damage that you can't see. 

I spoke with my dealership, and they said that they don't usually fix rims when they are dented.

If they wont fix it, and I'd rather not pay $1200 for a new wheel, would it be unsafe to drive around with the dented rim?


Also, I called the phone number on my Ducati card and they will cover the cost of towing the bike to the dealership. So cudos to them for that.

I wouldn't ride around with that rim.  The issue is whether the lip is just bent (which is often fine) or whether the entire wheel is out of true.  You can't tell.  You have no idea if it's straight or not or whether it will hold a bead.  The last thing you want is to be riding around and have sudden loss of pressure on your front tire.  You'll get to know the pavement intimately if that happens. 

Dealers often won't straighten wheels for liability reasons (and cuz they want you to buy a new one).  They should be able to diagnose whether it's straight or not.  If not, you need to find a wheel straightener.  Either the dealer may know of one or any independent shop should be able to give you a recommendation.

I've seen my dad use a chain & dog to seat beads on his trailer.  It runs house-trailer tires, and they are a PITA to deal with.

I've also seen many tires seated with various flammable gases & liquids.  Yes, it can be dangerous.  Imagine having a fire bomb with the volume of a tire.  Makes for one hell of a flame out ~

JM

Here's the thing.  If you don't send them out (a few hundred bucks?) you  are considering having the dealer do what?  Whatever they do, it'll also be a few hundred bucks.  Unless they replace the wheel, then it's $1200.  Not a smokin deal when a new set of Carros in whatever color you want is $1800.  Yeah, $600 more to get TWO wheels both of which are lighter and hotter looking than the stock Marchi. 

If you take the bike to the dealer, and decide to send your wheel out your dealer will charge for everything right down to storage of the bike.  If you want to repair the wheel(s) you could spend a few hundred buck (max) on a set of wheel stands, that you'd get to keep after.

As a side note, has anyone considered that the tyres may be damaged from the impact?

Earlier in this thread we discussed whether the back tire (which is now flat) is either punctured, or simply lost a bead.

The front tire is still completely inflatted, but I guess that doesn't mean it isnt damaged?

man, get your lawyer skills focused, file against the city and get two new rims with new tires.  [moto]

I went out and took a picture of the pothole that got me. Ummm yea, that's a cup lodged in there...

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m185/janus019/pothole003.jpg)

geez, that's a nasty one...   you did well not to dump the bike after hitting that.

By the time I saw it, it was too late to swerve. I had a major "oh shit" moment, and for that split second... I was certain I was going down at 50mph.

Damn...that's a good sized pothole over what looks to be a utility patch in the street. Seems they may have a bigger problem underneath that patch than just some squished down pavement.  :-\

Right under the Brown line, right?

Funny thing, I almost hit that same pothole today. But I was on my bicycle so I was able to dodge it quickly.  ;)

I live around the area, closer to Erie and Orleans.

Yup, that's exactly where it is. There are a number of them around there.

I guess maybe I'm noticing them more now because I hit one, but our streets are sooooo bad!

That is nasty.  Whoever cut the road open.. did not do a proper repair.  that is only going to get worse too..  Even if you are not going to file a claim against the city, you should probably let them know of the issue.  If you do, probably the contractor will be paying the bill in the end if it was not the city that performed the work.  I if my company fails to repair a cut in the street properly or a steel plate slips and a vehicle is damaged, we pay.

The problem in Chicago is that the city is basically broke at this point, so it doesn't seem like they're doing much about it. There are massive potholes like that one all over the city, I mean even Michigan Ave. is in a horrible condition. All the city has been doing is covering them with asphalt, but in a few days they are back to this condition or worse. I'm hoping they're waiting for better weather to fix them. If not, it's going to be a bad summer for riding around the city.

These guys are good and have a quick turn around, they don't paint though:

http://www.mcwheel.com (http://www.mcwheel.com)

You can measure the rear wheel.  I don't know the real specs for your bike, but  .04" out of round and run out should work.  Since the back tire was run flat do remove the tire and inspect.  Any competent shop can do the work for you, or, if you have a buddy with workstands and some knowledge, well, time to learn something new.

Before you do anything else, check your local laws.  In NYC, if the hazard was reported previously, forget how long, the city is liable.  They bought two wheels and two tires for my wife's car.

Are you sure that pothole isn't in San Francisco? We have loads of those here.   ;D

Glad you didn't dump your bike. I hit one no where near as big as that one and it just sucked my front in and threw my bike off trail. Luckily, it quickly regained traction and nothing happened.

Good luck!

I think that is definitely worthy of filing a claim. That's just ridiculous...

Even if you don't file a claim against the city, please report that pothole to the city's street department (often called the transportation dept in many cities) and explain that your bike was damaged.  That's a *serious* hazard.  They're unlikely to know about it unless someone complains.  And the more complaints they receive the more likely they are to fix it quickly.

I'd second that  [thumbsup]

I saw a girl in West LA hit a ridge from a cut street and her ti-rod blew off her FD car.  She came screeching to a stop with her front wheels both turned inward.

It was AWESOME!!

I had to go tell her to get out of the car before it got hit, she was still trying to drive back and forth.

Sounds like Atlanta... but we don't have the freezing weather to make the streets even worse... ATL is broke... but they are cutting down on Police and Fire...  [bang]  Completely retarded... but no cuts on non essential services

To the OP... let us know how it goes with finding a repair...

Here in LA my girfriend hit a pothole in her car big enough to roast a large pig on a spit. Bent the rim and flattened the tire instantly. She's got the paperwork and is in the process of getting reimbursed. Give it a shot.

Well, I had the bike towed to a dealership. They said the front rim is bent and the back rim has a stress fracture, also the rear tire is not holding air. It will all need to be replaced. They said with parts and service I'm looking at about a $2,000 job.  :o :o :o

that make the beast with two backsing blows.

ebay will give you a much cheaper quote.   ;)  Alternatively, if you're intent on spending $2000 on new wheels and new tires, get lightweight forged aluminum wheels and brand new tires for $2000. 

Not to add insult to injury, but make sure the shop looked at the swingarm pivot on the engine case.  If you hit a hole that hard, you make have cracked the cast pivot on the engine case (it would not be the first time that has happened on the DMF).

mitt

Getting second thoughts about filing that claim with the city yet? I wonder if your insurance would help you file the claim with the city if you filed the claim with your insurance. Rates might go up though.

Good point!

Please at the very least go out there with a can of bright orange spray paint and mark that deathtrap!

Glad you are ok, sorry to hear about the damage. Even though you were going a little quick, someone else should pay for the damage to your bike...

Good luck!